19x10 Square Setup for Track Use (Photos)

[Hardcodestroyer]

Really off topic here, sorry, but where'd you get that Nurburgring sticker/decal? Beautiful ride btw

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by Hardcodestroyer

Really off topic here, sorry, but where'd you get that Nurburgring sticker/decal? Beautiful ride btw

Ummm... At the Ring!

I've done the BMW Ring "invitational" each of the last three years. They shut down the Ring for two days each time and we have the Ring to ourselves for a full 8 hrs each day. BMW provides professional driver instruction and section training for those two days. Its a once-in-a-lifetime event! I try to do it every year! ;-)

[///Mobbin]

evanevery Sick build, love the aero and good call going square!

I was staggered on my e92 but have since decided to return to a square setup as it's much easier to maximize tire life that way. I've had Cup 2's before and loved them but am going to try Potenza RE-71R's next. Not many have compared these two tires but I imagine they are close in performance. Not offered in the same sizes also so hard to do a true comparison as you'd likely go wider in one or the other.

Congrats on the build/setup and thanks for sharing.

[evanevery]

I really love the PSC2's and everything I've heard is that they are likely the best choice of a hybrid street/track tire (with a bias toward track). I had dinner and a few beers with the BMW engineer who was responsible for the DSC programming on the M3/M4 during my Ring trip last June. He swore by the Michelins as the proper tire for this platform as this is what the chassis was tuned for...

Anyway, I started another thread to see if anyone has tried Hoosier R7's on their M3/M4 with 19 inch wheels. My ultimate goal is to find the best track tire for my square setup. However, I still have the factory 437M's with a used up set of PSC2's on them so I am considering mounting the R7's on them as those wheels are not really serving any other purpose. If I like the R7's on my unused factory wheels, I would then start using them on my track wheels. (I have the 437M's as a set of left unused wheels, Apex ARC-8's as my "track" wheels, and a set of BBS FI-R wheels as my "show" wheels)

The Hoosiers only come in limited sizes (especially for 19" wheels). So I'm thinking of P265/35ZR19's on the front (19x9) and P295/35ZR19's on the rear (19x10) for the factory 437M wheels.

Ultimately, if the R7's work really well (as they should) I would then try P265/35ZR19's on all four corners with the Apex 19x10 ARC-8 wheels. Clearance is a little trickier with the 10 inch wheels up front so I think I would need to go with the 265's all around...

[evanevery]

...you can try to get additional contact area with a street/hybrid/treaded tire by fighting to get a few mm's more of width on the OUTSIDE...

...or you can go to race slicks and pick up that extra contact area in the INSIDE of the tire were there are no tread gaps...

I'm betting that the Hoosier R7's, even in a 10 inch width, have significantly more grip than a really good hybrid tire in an 11 inch width...

[longkid]

Originally Posted by evanevery

[UPDATE]

I went down to the track for a couple of days at the end of last week. Square setup is great. Wheels work well and I still really like the PSC2's. -2.7 degrees of camber now with 10 inch wide wheels all around. Car handles really well and I just completed a full "X" rotation when I got back from the track to balance wear (for next time).

Turned in my best lap time on the south track, but that could be related to any number of changes: camber, wheels/tires, more track time, or a combination of all...

19x10 square setup is a win... Especially if it helps cut my track tire costs in half... Glad I made this change...

Glad to see 265 did well on the track. I was debating doing square setup between 275 and 285 on 18'' before.

[ixm3]

Originally Posted by evanevery

...you can try to get additional contact area with a street/hybrid/treaded tire by fighting to get a few mm's more of width on the OUTSIDE...

...or you can go to race slicks and pick up that extra contact area in the INSIDE of the tire were there are no tread gaps...

I'm betting that the Hoosier R7's, even in a 10 inch width, have significantly more grip than a really good hybrid tire in an 11 inch width...

Totally. Spot-on.

I went from aggressive DOT, to DOT-R's, to slicks on my E92M3 and the difference was incredible. The grip is transformative on slicks. But you chew through them like sandpaper on butter. Looking forward to an upcoming track with the M4 on squared 19's.

[evanevery]

Been running the Hoosier R7's (265/35-19) on the 19x10's square. Never going back! The Pilot Sport Cup 2's are a great tire but no where near the grip of the R7's!

Gotta run them at a relatively high pressure though. You will want to be at about 48 psi when hot to maximize the load carrying ability. (...although they don't "feel" stiff at this pressure). The R7's are a pretty light tire and running them on an M4 is just under their max load rating. I'm starting at 36-38 psi cold and the tires warm up nicely.

On my 2nd set with a heat cycled 3rd set pre-mounted and ready to go on my spare track wheels (also Apex Arc-8 19x10et25)!

[adc]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Been running the Hoosier R7's (265/35-19) on the 19x10's square. Never going back! The Pilot Sport Cup 2's are a great tire but no where near the grip of the R7's!

Gotta run them at a relatively high pressure though. You will want to be at about 48 psi when hot to maximize the load carrying ability. (...although they don't "feel" stiff at this pressure). The R7's are a pretty light tire and running them on an M4 is just under their max load rating. I'm starting at 36-38 psi cold and the tires warm up nicely.

On my 2nd set with a heat cycled 3rd set pre-mounted and ready to go on my spare track wheels (also Apex Arc-8 19x10et25)!

How many days are you getting out of the Hoosiers? I'm more of a cheapskate usually and go for durability rather than outright grip but maybe I'll treat myself once...

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by adc

How many days are you getting out of the Hoosiers? I'm more of a cheapskate usually and go for durability rather than outright grip but maybe I'll treat myself once...

I can easily get 5-6 track days out of the Hoosiers. They seem to last about the same as the Sport Cup 2's. Where the SC2's have a tread to burn through the slicks require more rubber to be scuffed away...

I like the SC2's but they don't come anywhere near the grip of the R7's. As long as you don't need to run them "too much" on the street (or in the wet), the choice is easily a no-brainer (IMHO)...

[adc]

Originally Posted by evanevery

I can easily get 5-6 track days out of the Hoosiers. They seem to last about the same as the Sport Cup 2's. Where the SC2's have a tread to burn through the slicks require more rubber to be scuffed away...

I like the SC2's but they don't come anywhere near the grip of the R7's. As long as you don't need to run them "too much" on the street (or in the wet), the choice is easily a no-brainer (IMHO)...

I'm using Nitto NT-01 275/305. Fronts are almost done after about 10-12 events, rears have a bit more to go. If I had camber plates at the front I could probably get another 2-4 days out of them too.

I use my OEM PSS for rain tires and to drive to/from the track so not too concerned about that aspect.

Still, I'm curious to try some slicks in the near future...

Do you also flip them on the wheel to swap the outside edge?

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by adc

I'm using Nitto NT-01 275/305. Fronts are almost done after about 10-12 events, rears have a bit more to go. If I had camber plates at the front I could probably get another 2-4 days out of them too.

I use my OEM PSS for rain tires and to drive to/from the track so not too concerned about that aspect.

Still, I'm curious to try some slicks in the near future...

Do you also flip them on the wheel to swap the outside edge?

I don't flip the tires. Since I run Apex 19x10 ET25 rims square, and the Hoosier R7's are symmetrical, I can easily balance the majority of tire wear just by moving the wheels around. (The PSC2's are also symmetrical so this works for them as well). With -2.7 degrees of camber up front, I'm not grinding away the outside shoulders so much and by the time the tires get worn down there is little more to be gained by flipping them.

Try them... Just once....

My track days generally involve 5-6 "full-on" 25 minute sessions per day at Autobahn CC. These are not "club" days... ;-)

[elmerzasty]

PSC2s are asymmetrical.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by elmerzasty

PSC2s are asymmetrical.

10-4. An incorrect use of terminology... Symmetrical vs Directional...

The R7's, and if I remember correctly, the PSC2's are NOT directional tread patterns. They can be run in either direction. Granted, the tread pattern on the PSC2's might not be symmetrical, but I belive you can run them in either direction.

Point being that they can be run on any corner of the car once mounted...

[evanevery]

Yup, just checked a set of brand new PSC2's I had mounted on the factory rims and put into storage. The tires are NOT symmetrical (they have an inside and an outside) but they don't have any markings to indicate that they are directional.

Once mounted, they can be moved to any corner of the car (assuming the wheels fit).

[elmerzasty]

Ok, got your point. Yes, you can run them in both directions. Wasn't trying to be an a-hole, it's just that there are actually tires which are asymmetrical AND directional (despite being assymetrical cannot be run both directions).

[evanevery]

Nope! No worries! No offense taken - and you are correct!

[adc]

Originally Posted by evanevery

I don't flip the tires. Since I run Apex 19x10 ET25 rims square, and the Hoosier R7's are symmetrical, I can easily balance the majority of tire wear just by moving the wheels around. (The PSC2's are also symmetrical so this works for them as well). With -2.7 degrees of camber up front, I'm not grinding away the outside shoulders so much and by the time the tires get worn down there is little more to be gained by flipping them.

Try them... Just once....

My track days generally involve 5-6 "full-on" 25 minute sessions per day at Autobahn CC. These are not "club" days... ;-)

Heh if I try them once I'll probably be hooked .

Full-on probably implies no traffic, that's excellent.

I need to get into the advanced groups where presumably traffic isn't as bad (no trains hopefully) so I can get more clear track in the sessions. That is a limiting factor today, I rarely get more than 2-4 clean laps.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by adc

Heh if I try them once I'll probably be hooked .

Full-on probably implies no traffic, that's excellent.

I need to get into the advanced groups where presumably traffic isn't as bad (no trains hopefully) so I can get more clear track in the sessions. That is a limiting factor today, I rarely get more than 2-4 clean laps.

Yup... Virtually no traffic!

My club has three GT run groups. Basically "A" for the big iron race/cup cars, "B" for relatively serious "track" cars, and "C" for "cars with license plates"...

My car is street legal (mostly), and I do have plates on the car, but I typically run in the "B" group. Although I'm technically turning in "A" group times, I end up sticking my arm out the window far more often than I want in that group.. ;-)

One of the nice things about the club is that there is rarely more than 3-4 cars on the entire track at any one time during weekdays... In fact, its not unusual for me to run a full 25 minute session without ever having to negotiate a single pass with anyone else!

[adc]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Yup... Virtually no traffic!

My club has three GT run groups. Basically "A" for the big iron race/cup cars, "B" for relatively serious "track" cars, and "C" for "cars with license plates"...

My car is street legal (mostly), and I do have plates on the car, but I typically run in the "B" group. Although I'm technically turning in "A" group times, I end up sticking my arm out the window far more often than I want in that group.. ;-)

One of the nice things about the club is that there is rarely more than 3-4 cars on the entire track at any one time during weekdays... In fact, its not unusual for me to run a full 25 minute session without ever having to negotiate a single pass with anyone else!

Heaven!

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by adc

Heaven!

We have two tracks! (Sometimes combined into one) Come join! Plenty of room for everyone! No track fee (other than membership). Lots of folks just store their cars here and do "arrive and drive".

http://www.autobahncc.com/

Tell 'em Ed sent ya!