Brakes feel worse after fitting Ferodo DS2500

[jaylazy2020]

Apologies if this has been answered before.

I had the front pads changed to Ferodo DS2500 along with the senor.

There was still plenty of life on the Oem pads but wander to ge them ahead of planned road trip thru Europe.


Brake fluid was change a year ago circa 10k miles ago.

I was hoping to get more initial bite but it the opposite.

The pedal feels spongy and I really have to apply pressure to get any sort of braking.

I bedded them in carefully.

Would getting brake fluid done again help?

Or should I change to Castrol SRF?

Thanks

[hellokitty]

Thanks for confirming my suspicion that the DS2500 is really a sub par pad compared to OE.

I've tried 4 different sets of aftermarket brake pads and the only thing that exceeded OEM bite was EBC Yellow. If you want to take it up a notch, get EBC Blue.

Both pads are R90 approved and therefore exceeded OEM specifications for the vehicle it was designed for based on formal government regulation tests.

I ordered a set of EBC Blue and I'm going to try running a Blue front with a Yellow rear. I currently have Yellow in the front and they stop better than OEM.

Edit: based on my research, the blue has the same amount of dust as yellow. Both pads are made with aramid fiber which has high friction properties for the high initial bite but is still rotor friendly compared to a semi-metallic pad. Dust is still less than OE for both yellow and blue.

[jaylazy2020]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Thanks for confirming my suspicion that the DS2500 is really a sub par pad compared to OE.

I've tried 4 different sets of aftermarket brake pads and the only thing that exceeded OEM bite was EBC Yellow. If you want to take it up a notch, get EBC Blue.

Both pads are R90 approved and therefore exceeded OEM specifications for the vehicle it was designed for based on formal government regulation tests.

I ordered a set of EBC Blue and I'm going to try running a Blue front with a Yellow rear. I currently have Yellow in the front and they stop better than OEM.

Edit: based on my research, the blue has the same amount of dust as yellow. Both pads are made with aramid fiber which has high friction properties for the high initial bite but is still rotor friendly compared to a semi-metallic pad. Dust is still less than OE for both yellow and blue.

Interesting and it's confirmed my fears.

I've found a yellow set on EBay and a blue.

What's the potential downside of choosing blue over yellow?

I'm not going to track it and it's my daily driver.

The motivation for changing was just hoping to ge that reassuring bite upon the first press of the pedal on my road trip from Dublin to Monza.

Cheers

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by jaylazy2020

Interesting and it's confirmed my fears.

I've found a yellow set on EBay and a blue.

What's the potential downside of choosing blue over yellow?

I'm not going to track it and it's my daily driver.

The motivation for changing was just hoping to ge that reassuring bite upon the first press of the pedal on my road trip from Dublin to Monza.

Cheers

Honestly I would just get the Blues and call it a day. The blue is stronger than yellow but that's not a bad thing considering our cars are a bit on the heavier side at 3600lbs plus

[Ropes]

I have tried a few different pads as well and was frustrated because I could not get what I was looking for. Thank you Hellokitty for (1) the recommendation on yellowstuff and (2) for letting me know the the GG brake code which is better than stock and is not published by brake manufacturers. I saw someone selling the ds2500 which I was considering and the codes were FF. It has been a while but I believe stock was GF. The yellowstuff are better than stock and quiet too. I am floored on their performance and how quiet they are. My wife's car has CCBs and these feel close to them which I always had brake envy over.

[swagon]

They have less initial bite than OE pads - bmw pads tend to have aggressive initial bite - when cold but get better once you get some heat in them and also last quite a bit longer on track. I'm satisfied with them on both BMWs. I switch between 2500 and 1.11, however I've got aftermarket discs now.

No need to change brake fluid unless you've got some crappy fluid currently like Ate. Pedal shouldn't be spongy at all though so check for air in the system.

[jaylazy2020]

That's the description of the DS2500 I bought.

I didn't know about codes.

I think I'll just go for a blue stuff set and get the brake fluid changed as the car is in for an oil service next Friday and it's only €69 for the brake fluid change

[jaylazy2020]

Originally Posted by swagon

They have less initial bite than OE pads - bmw pads tend to have aggressive initial bite - when cold but get better once you get some heat in them and also last quite a bit longer on track. I'm satisfied with them on both BMWs. I switch between 2500 and 1.11, however I've got aftermarket discs now.

No need to change brake fluid unless you've got some crappy fluid currently like Ate. Pedal shouldn't be spongy at all though so check for air in the system.

Just reading that again.

Do you mean you find the 2500 better when warmed up?

[swagon]

Originally Posted by jaylazy2020

Just reading that again.

Do you mean you find the 2500 better when warmed up?

Yes, and they're more consistent as you push on.

If you're looking for aggressive initial bite for daily driving, just get BMW pads. They also sell M Performance pads, which I think are made by Pagid.

[jaylazy2020]

Originally Posted by swagon

Yes, and they're more consistent as you push on.

If you're looking for aggressive initial bite for daily driving, just get BMW pads. They also sell M Performance pads, which I think are made by Pagid.

I'll bear that in mind as I haven't really pushed them.

Only one big enough stop coming off motorway on the way to work.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by jaylazy2020

I'll bear that in mind as I haven't really pushed them.

Only one big enough stop coming off motorway on the way to work.

You shouldn't have to "push them" to get optimal braking performance. That's not a good pad to begin with for street use. I've been there and driving on pads that don't have the same initial bite SUCKS because you lose confidence in the car.

If you drive aggressively in the canyons, then EBC Blue stuff would be my recommendation. If not, yellow stuff. Both have similar initial bite (just as good, if not better than OE), but Bluestuff will handle longer duration aggressive driving better where you are hard on the brakes over a longer duration. The dust is very much reduced as well over the OE pads.

I honestly haven't found any faults with the EBC pads and I'm very particular when it comes to choosing modifications for my car. If something sucks, I'll make it known so people don't go through the same headache as me lol

[jaylazy2020]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

You shouldn't have to "push them" to get optimal braking performance. That's not a good pad to begin with for street use. I've been there and driving on pads that don't have the same initial bite SUCKS because you lose confidence in the car.

If you drive aggressively in the canyons, then EBC Blue stuff would be my recommendation. If not, yellow stuff. Both have similar initial bite (just as good, if not better than OE), but Bluestuff will handle longer duration aggressive driving better where you are hard on the brakes over a longer duration. The dust is very much reduced as well over the OE pads.

I honestly haven't found any faults with the EBC pads and I'm very particular when it comes to choosing modifications for my car. If something sucks, I'll make it known so people don't go through the same headache as me lol

Thanks.

Is this the right version to get?

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by jaylazy2020

Thanks.

Is this the right version to get?

Yup that is it

[IVM3]

Interesting to see this. I don't have any issues or concerns with using the DS2500s on the street. Granted, I did get them to use as a dual street and track pad, but one of the benefits of the DS2500 is that it has good performance on the street compared to a full track pad. It would be interesting to test this out to see if it's more of a difference in "feel" or if actual stopping distances are longer on the street with DS2500s.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by Ropes

I have tried a few different pads as well and was frustrated because I could not get what I was looking for. Thank you Hellokitty for (1) the recommendation on yellowstuff and (2) for letting me know the the GG brake code which is better than stock and is not published by brake manufacturers. I saw someone selling the ds2500 which I was considering and the codes were FF. It has been a while but I believe stock was GF. The yellowstuff are better than stock and quiet too. I am floored on their performance and how quiet they are. My wife's car has CCBs and these feel close to them which I always had brake envy over.

Makes sense!

For those of you interested in knowing what the code FF means, the first letter is cold friction rating and the last letter is hot friction rating.

If stock pads have GF rating then the DS2500 are really a downgrade from stock as FF. EBCs have a GG rating.

[jaylazy2020]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Makes sense!

For those of you interested in knowing what the code FF means, the first letter is cold friction rating and the last letter is hot friction rating.

If stock pads have GF rating then the DS2500 are really a downgrade from stock as FF. EBCs have a GG rating.

Thanks for the info.

Had I known that before I bought the DS2500 I prob would have got Ebc blue.

Thankfully I know a great bmw specialist that will swap the DS2500 for the Blue stuff

[RugbyBro]

I usually run DS2500 on the street - they need a little bit of heat in them before they come alive. I find them to be better than OE once the brakes are warm tho. Not dedicated track pad levels of friction, but more like an OE+. Just depends on your driving style and usage really - OE can easily be the better pad for you.

[jaylazy2020]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

I usually run DS2500 on the street - they need a little bit of heat in them before they come alive. I find them to be better than OE once the brakes are warm tho. Not dedicated track pad levels of friction, but more like an OE+. Just depends on your driving style and usage really - OE can easily be the better pad for you.

I'll try to do a few big stops and see how consistent they are.

Only doing one big stop on a 20 minute drive to work is prob not the best idea.

I just want to have a solid brake feel and performance if I'm gonna hoon it from Dublin to Imola to Santander!

Circa 2200 miles on some of Europes best roads

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by jaylazy2020

I'll try to do a few big stops and see how consistent they are.

Only doing one big stop on a 20 minute drive to work is prob not the best idea.

I just want to have a solid brake feel and performance if I'm gonna hoon it from Dublin to Imola to Santander!

Circa 2200 miles on some of Europes best roads

Yeah do some braking to get some heat going. But you are completely right in that they don’t bite as hard as OE when cold. The DS2500 threshold brakes really well, but again that’s driving style specific and how hard you want to drive those amazing European roads; many would not want to brake that hard a lot on the street… I know I don’t lol. For around town, daily, and highway activities it’s really hard to beat OE.

[Tecnniqe]

EBC was recommended to me at an indie shop after I told them I wanted better pads that could hold up with the occasional hard driving and some laps here and there during the weekends.

They're well worth it imo.

[hellokitty]

So my EBC Blue NDX front pads came in over the weekend and I got a chance to install them today.

My setup is now EBC Blue NDX in the front and EBC Yellow in the rear.

As expected, the Blue pads made a HUGE difference even compared to EBC Yellow which are already VERY good pads to begin with and Yellows were already better than OEM IMO.

I talked to EBC UK and they recommended the Blue/Yellow combo and it doesn't disappoint. The material used in EBC Blue and Yellow are the same except Blue has more friction material so I didn't need to bed in as the friction materials were compatible, Blue just has more of it.

With that said, here are my initial 5 mile test drive impressions of the Blue pads:

1) Very grabby pad even at complete cold temperatures.

2) NO NOISE, completely silent, HECK YEAH!!

3) Pedal modulation is good. The initial bite is about 1.5x stronger than the yellows, but this jumps to 2.0-2.5x when you step on it just a LITTLE bit more. However, this is no where near emergency braking levels. This is just in stop and go traffic: lets say the car in front of you stops a bit harder because they weren't paying attention to traffic... the extra push you use to stop harder results in 2.0x - 2.5x the bite compared to the yellow pads.

4) It seems like EBC Blue just has much more friction "stuff" compared to yellows. After driving around for 5 or so miles on a test drive, my rotors were already darker with pad material compared to the yellows after 1000 or so miles on the yellows.

IMO this setup is the perfect setup for our cars for "street" use. If you want a hard cold bite, EBC Blue Front and EBC Yellow Rear is perfect. If you want something less grabby but still much better than OEM, then EBC Yellow all around.

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

This blue/yellow combo seems to be adding to front brake bias. If your tracking regularly you'll actually want to shift the bias slightly to the rear. I once made the mistake of using a very grabby sprint front pad (DS3.12) with an easier to modulate rear pad (PFC11). The car was easily upset.