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      02-15-2018, 05:28 PM   #45
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I sold my 2016 M4 and purchased a 2017 Shelby GT350. Was in the same boat as you about 6 months ago. I never test drove one, and from reading all the great reviews, did not really even need to.....buuut, 6 months later, I have a 2018 m4 on order and trading my GT350 for it. The first 2 months, the car was amazing!!! The sound, is freaking ridiculous! The manual transmission is awesome. Now everything else, isn't all that great, but the two things I just mentioned, made me overlook all that. After driving it two months and getting used to it, you really start to notice all the bad (compared to the M4).

The build quality is really bad. When I stumbled upon a thread on the Mustang forum that explains how to get rid of bumper gaps, I was just shocked that was the norm.

Also the car tramlines, like a mofo. Especially in New York, it is very apparent and does not make it all that great to drive the car, because the car just doesn't drive straight, instead just keeps jumping from left to right. If the roads are straight where you live (which I think in most places the roads are a lot better than New York, than this is not really an issue).

My friend recently got a 2018 m3 (manual), which I get to drive from time to time. The build quality of the car is just amazing compared to the Shelby. The clutch pedal feel is a lot better on the M3 (to me at least). The car actually has a new car smell (The Shelby did not have that from day one, probably due to the lack of any leather).

I think the GT350 is a great car to purchase and drive on the track. The M4/M3 are just great overall cars that you can daily and also track if needed. If you search on youtube, you will find the only negative review for the Shelby GT350, that was left by me. People were not too happy with the review, because I dislike the tramline on the car a lot. Everyone keeps telling me that tramline is normal, because of the wide tires, but its hard to say the car handles great, when I have to keep fighting the steering wheel to keep it going straight (due to the messed up New York roads).

My f10 m5 has 275 front tires, and does not tramline at all, so not sure if the wheels are the only culprit here...maybe the difference between 275 and 295 is that significant, but kind hard to believe that its only the tires.
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      02-16-2018, 01:17 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Ecoce1 View Post
I sold my 2016 M4 and purchased a 2017 Shelby GT350. Was in the same boat as you about 6 months ago. I never test drove one, and from reading all the great reviews, did not really even need to.....buuut, 6 months later, I have a 2018 m4 on order and trading my GT350 for it. The first 2 months, the car was amazing!!! The sound, is freaking ridiculous! The manual transmission is awesome. Now everything else, isn't all that great, but the two things I just mentioned, made me overlook all that. After driving it two months and getting used to it, you really start to notice all the bad (compared to the M4).

The build quality is really bad. When I stumbled upon a thread on the Mustang forum that explains how to get rid of bumper gaps, I was just shocked that was the norm.

Also the car tramlines, like a mofo. Especially in New York, it is very apparent and does not make it all that great to drive the car, because the car just doesn't drive straight, instead just keeps jumping from left to right. If the roads are straight where you live (which I think in most places the roads are a lot better than New York, than this is not really an issue).

My friend recently got a 2018 m3 (manual), which I get to drive from time to time. The build quality of the car is just amazing compared to the Shelby. The clutch pedal feel is a lot better on the M3 (to me at least). The car actually has a new car smell (The Shelby did not have that from day one, probably due to the lack of any leather).

I think the GT350 is a great car to purchase and drive on the track. The M4/M3 are just great overall cars that you can daily and also track if needed. If you search on youtube, you will find the only negative review for the Shelby GT350, that was left by me. People were not too happy with the review, because I dislike the tramline on the car a lot. Everyone keeps telling me that tramline is normal, because of the wide tires, but its hard to say the car handles great, when I have to keep fighting the steering wheel to keep it going straight (due to the messed up New York roads).

My f10 m5 has 275 front tires, and does not tramline at all, so not sure if the wheels are the only culprit here...maybe the difference between 275 and 295 is that significant, but kind hard to believe that its only the tires.
You are very correct about tramlime. I found it to be significantly worse in the "R" with the CUP II's. Those fucks are so sticky that it makes it worse.

However, I do have to say I find it funny people complain about build quality. Of course it's not as good, it's a Ford, lol. You're not paying for "Full Merino leather". You're paying for American plastic built by the lowest bidder.

At the end of the day it's a Ford. Ford and BMW will always be apples and oranges. The GT350's bread winner is the FPC and trans, that's it. You write a fair review, I just find the one part funny and it's a common theme amongst the "BMW elitists".

Enjoy the M4, that'd be my second choice. Lol.
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      02-16-2018, 03:14 AM   #47
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I had bad tramlining with front 285s. Then I took it for an alignment and the toe was some high positive number. Not sure if it left the factory that way or if it was just a result of the immaculately surfaced Houston roads. But it decreased a ton once the toe was in spec.
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      02-16-2018, 09:49 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Graves View Post
You are very correct about tramlime. I found it to be significantly worse in the "R" with the CUP II's. Those fucks are so sticky that it makes it worse.

However, I do have to say I find it funny people complain about build quality. Of course it's not as good, it's a Ford, lol. You're not paying for "Full Merino leather". You're paying for American plastic built by the lowest bidder.

At the end of the day it's a Ford. Ford and BMW will always be apples and oranges. The GT350's bread winner is the FPC and trans, that's it. You write a fair review, I just find the one part funny and it's a common theme amongst the "BMW elitists".

Enjoy the M4, that'd be my second choice. Lol.
Yea, when I initially got the car, the build quality really did not affect me. I did realize that it is a Ford. I saw the build quality before getting the car in lots of dealerships. The exhaust and the looks of the car, overpowered that negative, completely. The problem is that the more I drive the car and the more I get used to it, the exhaust and the looks of the car, start to dissipate, and this makes the build quality issue become more apparent. It also does not help that my friend got a 2018 m3, and I get a chance to drive it right after driving the GT350. The quality becomes a lot more apparent that way.

Technically you can get in to a bone stock m3 (new), for the same price as a new GT350. It seems that for the money, even with a bone stock M3, you are still getting a lot more for the money. Dealers really do not move much on the MSRP of the GT350, while the m3 can be found for Invoice pricing. So it would make sense the quality being a minus, if you at least get to save some money, but that isn't really the case here.
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      02-16-2018, 09:51 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by ClothSeats View Post
I had bad tramlining with front 285s. Then I took it for an alignment and the toe was some high positive number. Not sure if it left the factory that way or if it was just a result of the immaculately surfaced Houston roads. But it decreased a ton once the toe was in spec.
I did wheel alignment the second week I had the car, and my toe was way off as well. I was shocked to see a brand new car that had wheel alignment that much off. The wheel alignment helped a tone, but the car still tramlines, even after fixing the wheel alignment.
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      02-16-2018, 09:59 AM   #50
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I disagree with you guys in a general sense that the GT350 only offers the FPC and sound over an M3. I think it offers other things in the chassis, breaks and especially suspension department. Also the TC is much better programmed than MDM IMO.

As for DD of course the M3 wins and build quality, but as I said in my M3/4 (mostly M3) I had a ton of creaking/rattles etc in my M3. They also have their share of plastics, especially if you don't have the full leather option.

That being said, I have no issues driving DDing my GT350 even with my 7 year old daughter etc. I also find the ride in comfort (even sport) is much better than the M3/4. It does tramline on bad roads a lot.
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      02-16-2018, 11:44 AM   #51
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I?m in the Ford dealership now trading the M4 for a Shelby. Very cool car in person
I feel the M is more of a daily driver and Shelby is a driving experience.
Had the M for almost 4 years and like it, not love though
We?ll see
I actually was dead set on getting a GT350, but I ended up test driving a M4 first then a GT350 on the same day and ended up getting the M4.

The driving experience definitely felt sportier in the GT350, but M4 seems like the overall package. So much customization with coding and tuning, car already turboed and pretty much instant torque. Much classier too. GT350 just didn't feel complete. Super slow revving engine (heavy flywheel) created confusion for me (I was expecting a fast revving motor) and the car lacks the torque down low. Upside is the GT350 has ventilated seats, and a gnarly high revving V8 that comes with the sick exhaust note. Interior quality is ultimately still mustang quality vs M tier.

If I was in my 20s, I probably would have gone with the GT350, but now in my 30s I would rather have the classier car.
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      02-16-2018, 12:47 PM   #52
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If I was in my 20s, I probably would have gone with the GT350, but now in my 30s I would rather have the classier car.
If this was one of your criteria why even bother driving the lowly 'Stang?
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      02-16-2018, 01:44 PM   #53
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I disagree with you guys in a general sense that the GT350 only offers the FPC and sound over an M3. I think it offers other things in the chassis, breaks and especially suspension department. Also the TC is much better programmed than MDM IMO.

As for DD of course the M3 wins and build quality, but as I said in my M3/4 (mostly M3) I had a ton of creaking/rattles etc in my M3. They also have their share of plastics, especially if you don't have the full leather option.

That being said, I have no issues driving DDing my GT350 even with my 7 year old daughter etc. I also find the ride in comfort (even sport) is much better than the M3/4. It does tramline on bad roads a lot.
I have to disagree on the traction part. I have drifted in to turns (with the biggest smile) on the GT350, to realize a few moments later, that I had the traction on, the entire time. It seems like the car is very late on trying to catch it, if it starts sliding. On the M4/M3 with traction on, you can take turns pretty quickly and the car wont slide at all. The traction on the BMW turns on instantly. Now the traction does kill power and all that, and I usually prefer to turn traction completely off, for the fun factor to increase (on roads that allow it, with no people around), but it seems like on the Shelby the traction does not kick on instantly as it does on the BMW. Some people might say this is a good thing, and I agree it makes it much more fun to drive the car (as long as you know what you are doing), but in that case, it defeats the purpose of having traction control. If I take quick turns while it is raining on Shelby, the tail almost always starts sliding. On the M4/M3 it is very difficult to make the tail slide when traction is on, even in rain.

I do keep the Shelby in Sports mode, most of the time, so maybe the traction starts working more like MDM in this mode, that might be a factor, that I just am not aware of. In that case they should have marked that in some way, as BMW shows a different indication when MDM mode is on, instead of traction being completely off. On the Shelby in track mode, it instantly shows that the traction is completely off, so that does make sense. Which makes me think that the traction control does not change from going from normal mode to sport mode.
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      02-16-2018, 01:53 PM   #54
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I have to disagree on the traction part. I have drifted in to turns (with the biggest smile) on the GT350, to realize a few moments later, that I had the traction on, the entire time. It seems like the car is very late on trying to catch it, if it starts sliding. On the M4/M3 with traction on, you can take turns pretty quickly and the car wont slide at all. The traction on the BMW turns on instantly. Now the traction does kill power and all that, and I usually prefer to turn traction completely off, for the fun factor to increase (on roads that allow it, with no people around), but it seems like on the Shelby the traction does not kick on instantly as it does on the BMW. Some people might say this is a good thing, and I agree it makes it much more fun to drive the car (as long as you know what you are doing), but in that case, it defeats the purpose of having traction control. If I take quick turns while it is raining on Shelby, the tail almost always starts sliding. On the M4/M3 it is very difficult to make the tail slide when traction is on, even in rain.

I do keep the Shelby in Sports mode, most of the time, so maybe the traction starts working more like MDM in this mode, that might be a factor, that I just am not aware of. In that case they should have marked that in some way, as BMW shows a different indication when MDM mode is on, instead of traction being completely off. On the Shelby in track mode, it instantly shows that the traction is completely off, so that does make sense. Which makes me think that the traction control does not change from going from normal mode to sport mode.
Yeah the M3/M4 traction control is overly intrusive. I wouldnt call that a positive.

I had the same choice as you guys about a year ago. Trade my base M3 for a new comp pack or buy a GT350. Man I wish I would have bought the GT350. I went with the new M and sold it in under a year. No more F8x for me.
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      02-16-2018, 01:54 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Ecoce1 View Post
I have to disagree on the traction part. I have drifted in to turns (with the biggest smile) on the GT350, to realize a few moments later, that I had the traction on, the entire time. It seems like the car is very late on trying to catch it, if it starts sliding. On the M4/M3 with traction on, you can take turns pretty quickly and the car wont slide at all. The traction on the BMW turns on instantly. Now the traction does kill power and all that, and I usually prefer to turn traction completely off, for the fun factor to increase (on roads that allow it, with no people around), but it seems like on the Shelby the traction does not kick on instantly as it does on the BMW. Some people might say this is a good thing, and I agree it makes it much more fun to drive the car (as long as you know what you are doing), but in that case, it defeats the purpose of having traction control. If I take quick turns while it is raining on Shelby, the tail almost always starts sliding. On the M4/M3 it is very difficult to make the tail slide when traction is on, even in rain.

I do keep the Shelby in Sports mode, most of the time, so maybe the traction starts working more like MDM in this mode, that might be a factor, that I just am not aware of. In that case they should have marked that in some way, as BMW shows a different indication when MDM mode is on, instead of traction being completely off. On the Shelby in track mode, it instantly shows that the traction is completely off, so that does make sense. Which makes me think that the traction control does not change from going from normal mode to sport mode.
I've never had that happen with full nannies on in the GT350. Full nannies catch everything (within physical limitations of course like any car), sport and track it loosened up in steps with Track mode giving you a lot of leeway. That was my problem with MDM, it doesn't give you hardly any leeway, it just kills the power instantly like you have all of the nannies on anyway. You have to shut everything off in the M3/4 to have some fun, which I was never too comfortable with.

It does tell you that you are in sport mode just like when you are in MDM mode on the dash. Differently of course, but it does tell you and it should be noticeable because the exhaust valves will be open as well.
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      02-16-2018, 03:00 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Graves View Post
You are very correct about tramlime. I found it to be significantly worse in the "R" with the CUP II's. Those fucks are so sticky that it makes it worse.

However, I do have to say I find it funny people complain about build quality. Of course it's not as good, it's a Ford, lol. You're not paying for "Full Merino leather". You're paying for American plastic built by the lowest bidder.

At the end of the day it's a Ford. Ford and BMW will always be apples and oranges. The GT350's bread winner is the FPC and trans, that's it. You write a fair review, I just find the one part funny and it's a common theme amongst the "BMW elitists".

Enjoy the M4, that'd be my second choice. Lol.
Yea, when I initially got the car, the build quality really did not affect me. I did realize that it is a Ford. I saw the build quality before getting the car in lots of dealerships. The exhaust and the looks of the car, overpowered that negative, completely. The problem is that the more I drive the car and the more I get used to it, the exhaust and the looks of the car, start to dissipate, and this makes the build quality issue become more apparent. It also does not help that my friend got a 2018 m3, and I get a chance to drive it right after driving the GT350. The quality becomes a lot more apparent that way.

Technically you can get in to a bone stock m3 (new), for the same price as a new GT350. It seems that for the money, even with a bone stock M3, you are still getting a lot more for the money. Dealers really do not move much on the MSRP of the GT350, while the m3 can be found for Invoice pricing. So it would make sense the quality being a minus, if you at least get to save some money, but that isn't really the case here.
I totally agree with you. I went with the M3 over other cars because I've owned mostly American my whole life. I understand the quality is night and day so the decision was very easy for me.
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      02-16-2018, 03:06 PM   #57
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I totally agree with you. I went with the M3 over other cars because I've owned mostly American my whole life. I understand the quality is night and day so the decision was very easy for me.
BMW doesn't exactly have good quality ratings either... Lower than Ford per JD Power.

I personally had flaws in both my brand new F8x. The 15 had a big wrinkle in the rear seat it took them almost a year to fix. The 16 had a few discoloration spots in the paint.
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      02-16-2018, 03:07 PM   #58
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I totally agree with you. I went with the M3 over other cars because I've owned mostly American my whole life. I understand the quality is night and day so the decision was very easy for me.
BMW doesn't exactly have good quality ratings either... Lower than Ford per JD Power.
JD Power is a joke. Lol
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      02-16-2018, 03:09 PM   #59
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JD Power is a joke. Lol
So is saying BMWs are quality I own them but I realize they are shit.
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      02-16-2018, 03:10 PM   #60
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JD Power is a joke. Lol
So is saying BMWs are quality I own them but I realize they are shit.
Roger. Guess I'll cancel my order and get the Kia Stinger.
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      02-16-2018, 03:12 PM   #61
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Roger. Guess I'll cancel my order and get the Kia Stinger.
If you have not taken delivery yet its a good time to run
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      02-16-2018, 03:13 PM   #62
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Roger. Guess I'll cancel my order and get the Kia Stinger.
If you have not taken delivery yet its a good time to run
Okay, cool. Don't pick it up until July in Wurzburg, Germany.
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      02-16-2018, 03:16 PM   #63
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Okay, cool. Don't pick it up until July in Wurzburg, Germany.
Cool I did that years ago with my first one. Second one I took delivery in the states.
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      02-16-2018, 04:06 PM   #64
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So is saying BMWs are quality I own them but I realize they are shit.
Completely disagree. I have owned these brands over the course of my life (with the wife):
2 mazdas
1 ford
2 infinitis
2 lexus
2 mercs
1 acura
1 audi
7 bmws

Not to mention countless more bmw's, lexus, mercs from the company fleet.

Only had real issues with the '07 N54 335i.

Owned many of these cars past warranty and the bmws are on par or better than most.

You seem to go from one extreme to another in your posts, and I've read many of them over the years.
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      02-16-2018, 04:46 PM   #65
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BMW doesn't exactly have good quality ratings either... Lower than Ford per JD Power.

I personally had flaws in both my brand new F8x. The 15 had a big wrinkle in the rear seat it took them almost a year to fix. The 16 had a few discoloration spots in the paint.
When you drive one and than drive the other, right after each other. You realize that overall quality build is a lot better in BMW versus FORD. If people want to argue with me on that, that means I got very unlucky with the ford I currently own (Shelby GT350) and the other ford I owned in the past (Lincoln LS)...and keep getting lucky with every BMW I owned (1996 735IL, 2001 740IL, 2000 323ci, 2005 M3, 2008 550i, 2003 x5, 2016 m4 and 2014 m5).

But going back to OP post and the reason I decided to shime in. M3 and GT350 are two completely different cars. My opinion is that the M3 is a better overall car (daily and track). The GT350 is a beast for the track, no so much for street driving (especially in New York). Either way, both cars are fun as hell.
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      02-16-2018, 07:19 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
So is saying BMWs are quality I own them but I realize they are shit.
Completely disagree. I have owned these brands over the course of my life (with the wife):
2 mazdas
1 ford
2 infinitis
2 lexus
2 mercs
1 acura
1 audi
7 bmws

Not to mention countless more bmw's, lexus, mercs from the company fleet.

Only had real issues with the '07 N54 335i.

Owned many of these cars past warranty and the bmws are on par or better than most.

You seem to go from one extreme to another in your posts, and I've read many of them over the years.
I do? Strange I've always said BMW are junk in general.
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