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      03-03-2020, 11:34 AM   #1
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Wheel Lugs Coming Loose After Each Session

I went for a few track days last year. I re-torqued each lug to 104 lb/ft before I went out for the 1st lap in the morning. For some reason unknown to myself, many of my stock wheel lugs came loose after each 20-mins session (loose in the sense that the lug could be very loose that I'd need to tighten it by having a few complete turns, or could just be a little bit loose where a 1/4 turn was sufficient).

I would have to re-torque each lug to 104 lb/ft. The lug might come loose again after the next 20 mins session, and I just re-torqued it again. After a few sessions, the lugs might not come loose again in most cases.

BTW, this same issue happened to me whether I was running stock 666 rims with stock lugs or vorsteiner rims with stock lugs. and it happened to all 4 corners. My car is 18" ZCP with CCB.

Has anyone experienced this as well? What's your solution? Or am I doing anything wrong?

Thanks.
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      03-03-2020, 11:51 AM   #2
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This is highly unusual and dangerous. Are you using spacers or lubricated threads on the bolts? If this happened to me I would carefully inspect the hub for corrosion and the mating surface of the wheel. No disrespect intended, but I have also seen mechanics with torque wrenches use the wrong technique when torquing bolts. Something is fishy.
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      03-03-2020, 05:28 PM   #3
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Random idea but please confirm you are using FT Lb marking on your wrench and not Nm
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      03-04-2020, 08:19 AM   #4
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Immediately change torque wrench is what I would do. 104 lb/ft is damn tight and should NEVER come loose
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      03-04-2020, 08:41 AM   #5
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thx everyone. i'm sure i'm referring to the correct marking unit on my torque wrench, but yes I will try with another torque wrench. one thing u pointed out could actually be the cause, i used quite a bit of anti-seize on the lugs and the mating surfaces. i believe i should remove all of the completely from the lugs. anyone has any suggestion what "cleaner" should I use to remove it?

thx.
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      03-04-2020, 09:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pong View Post
thx everyone. i'm sure i'm referring to the correct marking unit on my torque wrench, but yes I will try with another torque wrench. one thing u pointed out could actually be the cause, i used quite a bit of anti-seize on the lugs and the mating surfaces. i believe i should remove all of the completely from the lugs. anyone has any suggestion what "cleaner" should I use to remove it?

thx.
I don't think you should put any lubricant on the threads of the lugs, that's the exact reason they're coming loose. On the hub/mating surface to prevent the hub and wheel sticking yes that's fine. But DO NOT put it on the threads of the lug bolts. That's only my 0.02 tho
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      03-04-2020, 09:19 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pong View Post
thx everyone. i'm sure i'm referring to the correct marking unit on my torque wrench, but yes I will try with another torque wrench. one thing u pointed out could actually be the cause, i used quite a bit of anti-seize on the lugs and the mating surfaces. i believe i should remove all of the completely from the lugs. anyone has any suggestion what "cleaner" should I use to remove it?

thx.
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      03-04-2020, 11:14 AM   #8
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Oh man. Lucky you didnít get hurt.

Donít put anything on the lugs anymore.

Personally, I wouldnít trust a cleaner and would replace the lugs and studs.
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      03-04-2020, 12:16 PM   #9
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Whew, that could have been exciting. Typically when you lubricate a fastener, you reduce the required amount of torque to achieve the desired amount of clamp. So, you might have accidentally been over-torquing the lugs, in addition to dealing with the struggle of the wheel workload loosening up the fasteners.

I'd give those lugs a good look, check for signs that you stretched them. You're probably fine with some heavy soap action + maybe a thread chaser on the hubs, but double-check first.
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      03-04-2020, 01:27 PM   #10
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Are you torquing them right after the session when the car is hot?
Thats a big no no. heat expands and contracts. Should only be torqued when cold. When you hear about ppl shearing the lugbolts at the track, its because they retorqued the bolts right after the session when the wheels are hot. They become overtorqued.

If its after the car is cooled down, i agree with trying a different torque wrench.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pong View Post
I went for a few track days last year. I re-torqued each lug to 104 lb/ft before I went out for the 1st lap in the morning. For some reason unknown to myself, many of my stock wheel lugs came loose after each 20-mins session (loose in the sense that the lug could be very loose that I'd need to tighten it by having a few complete turns, or could just be a little bit loose where a 1/4 turn was sufficient).

I would have to re-torque each lug to 104 lb/ft. The lug might come loose again after the next 20 mins session, and I just re-torqued it again. After a few sessions, the lugs might not come loose again in most cases.

BTW, this same issue happened to me whether I was running stock 666 rims with stock lugs or vorsteiner rims with stock lugs. and it happened to all 4 corners. My car is 18" ZCP with CCB.

Has anyone experienced this as well? What's your solution? Or am I doing anything wrong?

Thanks.
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      03-04-2020, 02:11 PM   #11
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Yeah, the anti seize is definitely the cause. I would use brake cleaner and a rag to clean the bolts, and the hubs will need a good blast as well to clean them. I concur with the guidance to check the bolts for stretch (perhaps by comparing to a new one). Yours have likely been way over torqued. It’s the same reason spark plugs don’t get anti seize - it messes with the torque measurement and can damage the threads in the cylinder head.
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      03-04-2020, 04:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingLow78 View Post
Yeah, the anti seize is definitely the cause. I would use brake cleaner and a rag to clean the bolts, and the hubs will need a good blast as well to clean them. I concur with the guidance to check the bolts for stretch (perhaps by comparing to a new one). Yours have likely been way over torqued. Itís the same reason spark plugs donít get anti seize - it messes with the torque measurement and can damage the threads in the cylinder head.
Not over-torqued, but over-stretched .
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      06-20-2020, 08:04 AM   #13
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this happened to me almost died so i took my car in for vibration issues bmw sevice said they couldnt replicate but noticed my rotors were warped and brakes were low they swapped out my rears 1 week later my wheel bolts pop out while driving i made it to the dealer with 1 lug left luckily for me they called yesterday said something about a bad bearing will update on it when i pick up car either today or monday
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      06-20-2020, 12:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pong View Post
thx everyone. I'm sure i'm referring to the correct marking unit on my torque wrench, but yes i will try with another torque wrench. One thing u pointed out could actually be the cause, i used quite a bit of anti-seize on the lugs and the mating surfaces. I believe i should remove all of the completely from the lugs. Anyone has any suggestion what "cleaner" should i use to remove it?

Thx.
do not use anti sieze ever on your lugs.
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      06-20-2020, 12:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Not over-torqued, but over-stretched .
Grade 10.9 bolts have a .55 max carbon content. They're not ductile enough to elongate under clamping loads. It's gotta be the anti-seize.
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      06-20-2020, 01:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
Grade 10.9 bolts have a .55 max carbon content. They're not ductile enough to elongate under clamping loads. It's gotta be the anti-seize.
All fasteners stretch, that's how they clamp components together...

I do agree that what caused his lugs to come loose is the use of anti-seize. However, using anti-seize will also cause an overstretch of the lugs when torqued to spec, which can eventually cause them to fail. Never a good idea to use a lubricant on treads that are not intended for it.
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      06-21-2020, 05:17 AM   #17
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Don't bother trying to clean those wheel bolts, just throw them in the bin. They are compromised.

By all new bolts, it's only around $100. Not worth risking using the old ones.

Out of interest, for anyone who does a lot of track days, it should be on your list to replace the bolts periodically, every year or couple of years. They are one of the cheapest parts on the car. Also one of the most important, and one of the parts under most stress.
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      06-21-2020, 07:31 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by robbo mcs View Post
Don't bother trying to clean those wheel bolts, just throw them in the bin. They are compromised.

By all new bolts, it's only around $100. Not worth risking using the old ones.

Out of interest, for anyone who does a lot of track days, it should be on your list to replace the bolts periodically, every year or couple of years. They are one of the cheapest parts on the car. Also one of the most important, and one of the parts under most stress.
Good advice. I'd run from those bolts.
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      06-22-2020, 09:41 AM   #19
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Towards the end of track season last year I noticed slight loosing of the lugs with the stock wheels, and even worse with the Apex set. My conclusion was the same as mentioned above, lugs were worn out and needed replaced. Lots of heat cycles and on/off wheel swaps for three years of tracking.
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      06-24-2020, 06:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron View Post
Towards the end of track season last year I noticed slight loosing of the lugs with the stock wheels, and even worse with the Apex set. My conclusion was the same as mentioned above, lugs were worn out and needed replaced. Lots of heat cycles and on/off wheel swaps for three years of tracking.
Are these the stock OEM wheel lugs that fit all OEM wheels - including the 666M 20" wheels?
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      06-25-2020, 09:50 PM   #21
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Yes those appear to be the right ones, but confirm the PN is correct with realoem or some other site as I don't know it off the top of my head.
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      06-29-2020, 06:02 AM   #22
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Buy new bolts from FCP Euro, and then you can exchange them for another set of new bolts as often as you like...just have to pay return shipping fee.

Definitely agree those bolts in OP car should be replaced as it's impossible to know if they've exceeded elastic limit stress. I assume the hub threads would be ok? That part I'm not clear on (i.e. if there might be localized hub threads with unseen/unknown history of stress beyond elastic limit). Here I'm trying to visualize how the hub threads might fare both with excessive static stress level, then with the driving loads imposed on top of that, *then* adding in what could have happened as the car was driven hard with loosening bolts...at a loss on this part.
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