BM3 e85 help

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

There's so many threads about spark plugs lol.

I'm having trouble with my 97506s gapped at .022 for anything above E30. I was going to re-gap them to .018 to try full E85 down to E50 but my NGK F8S plugs just came today from Euroklasse (1 day shipping wow!). So I'm just going to gap the F8S plugs at .020 and toss out the 97506s. I got 10K on them, that's fine with me.

That's appropriate for your setup. I'm running the same thing and my flex fuel logs on e75 are clean.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

That's appropriate for your setup. I'm running the same thing and my flex fuel logs on e75 are clean.

Good, I'm sick of it randomly going into limp mode and the idle hunting.

[slaughter.mode]

Just put in the F8S / Flex plugs and it's a night and day difference. Idle is still a little erratic because my tuner probably did some trimming to accommodate the previous 97506 plugs. Ripping through gears though, wow, these Flex plugs @ .020 are MONEY.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

Just put in the F8S / Flex plugs and it's a night and day difference. Idle is still a little erratic because my tuner probably did some trimming to accommodate the previous 97506 plugs. Ripping through gears though, wow, these Flex plugs @ .020 are MONEY.

Glad you like it! The F8S plugs make running flex fuel smooth as butter. You'll enjoy a longer spark plug life as well compared to the 97505 since they're built for ethanol use

[CT92F80]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Glad you like it! The F8S plugs make running flex fuel smooth as butter. You'll enjoy a longer spark plug life as well compared to the 97505 since they're built for ethanol use

How many miles are you guys replacing your F8S plugs? Every 10k miles?

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by CT92F80

How many miles are you guys replacing your F8S plugs? Every 10k miles?

I'll let you know when I get there but F8S should in theory last longer. I'm going to log again at 10k and possibly run to 12-15k.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by CT92F80

How many miles are you guys replacing your F8S plugs? Every 10k miles?

It's one of those things that scale with how you drive and what kind of fueling you have. Let's say you ran E85 for the bulk of the 10,000 miles with either top lube or cycling to pump gas every so often as directed and you drove it like you stole it all day every day, I'd say 5,000 miles max. Now let's say you're running a flex tune on the E30 end as a daily driver with some heavy footed driving on the weekends or every so often, then I'd say 15K. Then there's people like me who just get lucky sometimes and ran 20K on a heavy footed, mostly E-85 fueled F80 over the span of months and swapped the plugs just because I felt like I should...but they were still in visibly good condition.

Keep an eye on misfiring DME codes, crappy idling, and hesitant pulling. That's really going to be your gauge as to when it's really 'time.'

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

It's one of those things that scale with how you drive and what kind of fueling you have. Let's say you ran E85 for the bulk of the 10,000 miles with either top lube or cycling to pump gas every so often as directed and you drove it like you stole it all day every day, I'd say 5,000 miles max. Now let's say you're running a flex tune on the E30 end as a daily driver with some heavy footed driving on the weekends or every so often, then I'd say 15K. Then there's people like me who just get lucky sometimes and ran 20K on a heavy footed, mostly E-85 fueled F80 over the span of months and swapped the plugs just because I felt like I should...but they were still in visibly good condition.

Keep an eye on misfiring DME codes, crappy idling, and hesitant pulling. That's really going to be your gauge as to when it's really 'time.'

Good points.

Make sure you use a top lube like Lucas ethanol treatment or hot shots LX4.

Ethanol will dry up the seals in the hpfp and injectors so using those products will combat that to avoid costly repairs.

I run both to be safe.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Good points.

Make sure you use a top lube like Lucas ethanol treatment or hot shots LX4.

Ethanol will dry up the seals in the hpfp and injectors so using those products will combat that to avoid costly repairs.

I run both to be safe.

Yeah I use Power Plus and I just poured it into one of these lab wash bottles since it's super easy to get it into the gas tank with the long nozzle. At every fill up of any blend of Ethanol, I put about a cap full then fill so that it mixes up nicely. It doesn't smell like cherries by using it in this method however if you so happened to have a large drum of E85 and dumped the entire bottle in and mixed it, that would actually saturate the fuel much differently and give you that scent. I know this from experience.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

Yeah I use Power Plus and I just poured it into one of these lab wash bottles since it's super easy to get it into the gas tank with the long nozzle. At every fill up of any blend of Ethanol, I put about a cap full then fill so that it mixes up nicely. It doesn't smell like cherries by using it in this method however if you so happened to have a large drum of E85 and dumped the entire bottle in and mixed it, that would actually saturate the fuel much differently and give you that scent. I know this from experience.

Great idea! I've been looking for a bottle that doesn't like to leak since I usually keep some top lube in my trunk. Any suggestions?

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Great idea! I've been looking for a bottle that doesn't like to leak since I usually keep some top lube in my trunk. Any suggestions?

I just found a cap that so happens to perfectly fit this squeeze bottle and I leave it in the door cup holder.

[slaughter.mode]

Just wanted to update that I'm at about 11K miles on my FlexFuel spark plugs (SILZKBR8F8S) and it's still running perfectly. I barely ever cycle pump fuel anymore since it's $6+ a gallon in LA. I'm just adding about a cap full of PowerPlus top lube to every fill.

[socalengineer]

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin

Yes, for E85. For pump fuel only I'd stick with the 97506

What's best for E30? The 97506 or 12120042724? Which gap?

BTW, I'm an N55.

[Commanderwiggin]

Originally Posted by socalengineer

What's best for E30? The 97506 or 12120042724? Which gap?

BTW, I'm an N55.

I like the 12120042724. .019 on my car...you can probably run anywhere up to .022 without issue.

[heitzke]

Bumping an old thread because relevant:

Should I consider running the F8S because since i'm mostly running E50 these days or are the 97506 at 022-0.023 still recommended?

I'm about due for changing the plugs as the car has gone through a few different life stages and setups on the same 97506's. I have a fresh set of plugs sitting in the garage but wasn't sure if I should consider the F8S instead?

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by heitzke

Bumping an old thread because relevant:

Should I consider running the F8S because since i'm mostly running E50 these days or are the 97506 at 022-0.023 still recommended?

I'm about due for changing the plugs as the car has gone through a few different life stages and setups on the same 97506's. I have a fresh set of plugs sitting in the garage but wasn't sure if I should consider the F8S instead?

F8S will give you longer life compared to the 97506s on E85.

With that said, I would do a log and see if you have timing corrections on the 97506 plugs. I had timing corrections while tuning with Jordan. He asked me to try F8S plugs and that solved the issue.

[heitzke]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

F8S will give you longer life compared to the 97506s on E85.

With that said, I would do a log and see if you have timing corrections on the 97506 plugs. I had timing corrections while tuning with Jordan. He asked me to try F8S plugs and that solved the issue.

Ok awesome thanks, think that's the same case for higher e-blends too? I'll have to do a little logging and see what it looks like. I have a tiny bit of hesitation rolling in/out of part-throttle in normal driving, but that could just as well be tune-related.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by heitzke

Ok awesome thanks, think that's the same case for higher e-blends too? I'll have to do a little logging and see what it looks like. I have a tiny bit of hesitation rolling in/out of part-throttle in normal driving, but that could just as well be tune-related.

Higher E blends will show more issues in terms of timing.

My issues arose when I was on full E85.

I think you'll want the F8S for best performance if you run anything above E40. Not saying 97506s are bad but F8S are better on ethanol overall.

[tomlong]

Just ordered a new set of 8F8S plugs along with the S55 dinan coilpacks. What is the tradeoff between gapping them at 0.18" versus 0.20" versus 0.22"? Would it be how the car behaves in low vs high rpms?

Currently running E50 tune with stock turbos. Car misfires only at the very top end of the range, to be specific, starting at 6k to redline only.

Looking at my datalogs and verified by my tuner, fueling and boost delivery look awesome. He also said everything looks phenomenal on the log until the top of 6th gear. Around 5800rpm, he thinks cylinder 6 is withholding ignition spark. Because this is a high gear and high load, high mileage, he suspects that my cylinder 6 coilpack is going bad, hence why I also ordered new coilpacks.

Any additional feedback or thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by tomlong

Just ordered a new set of 8F8S plugs along with the S55 dinan coilpacks. What is the tradeoff between gapping them at 0.18" versus 0.20" versus 0.22"? Would it be how the car behaves in low vs high rpms?

Currently running E50 tune with stock turbos. Car misfires only at the very top end of the range, to be specific, starting at 6k to redline only.

Looking at my datalogs and verified by my tuner, fueling and boost delivery look awesome. He also said everything looks phenomenal on the log until the top of 6th gear. Around 5800rpm, he thinks cylinder 6 is withholding ignition spark. Because this is a high gear and high load, high mileage, he suspects that my cylinder 6 coilpack is going bad, hence why I also ordered new coilpacks.

Any additional feedback or thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Ask your tuner what gap you should be running on F8S. I don't think we can apply the same principles of gap similar to that of 97506 plugs.

[TopJimmy]

tomlong
It's the same gap principle for B8S and F8S even though they are 1-step and 2-steps colder than stock plugs. Where it matters is when the boost is cranking, so most tuners have a recommendation. BM3 OTS maps ask for 0.023". Paul Johnson asks for 0.021" on most of his custom maps. Be heard of guys gapping down to 0.018" for very high boost, but when I tried that I had a rough idle until I opened them back up to 0.020".

The "colder" simply identifies how the insulator and electrode are recessed a little more down inside the metal collar, which acts as a heat sink. Colder or warmer isn't necessarily better…because you want the plugs running in the correct heat range so they self-clean. NGK has a nice write up on laser iridium heat ranges here:
https://www.ngk.com.au/technical_info/heat-range/

[tomlong]

Forgot to mention: The car currently has the NGK SILZKBR8D8S (97506) installed and they are gapped to 0.022" which is fine on my 93 map but on the E50 map is misfiring up top beginning around 6k rpms to redline, as described above.