Top Gear tests an M3 vs. a Model 3 Performance at Thunderhill

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

There is much more to comparing vehicles than asking electric motor to compete with gasoline engine and narrowing the comparison to two metrics: top speed and acceleration.

Not an exhaustive list: suspension behavior under various conditions, brakes, driver ergonomics, parts availability after the accident ...

Tesla Model 3 isn't there yet ...

Don't forget exhaust note. Unless Tesla start to pipe in fake exhaust noises like BMW, the model 3's exhaust can't compare.

[MmmmmM2]

Fast? Yes.
Ugly? Yes.

[swunder]

I'm sure everything, including M3's, will not be ICE given enough years. Pretty obvious electric/hydrogen is the future.

Every generation cares less and less about sound, smell, feel. Was a big question if the M3 would even come with a stick anymore.

Push (or have computer) push pedal, go fast. That's all that matters to an increasingly large number of buyers every day.

And I bet the ~60 year old that had a gigantic muscle car already felt the same way about the current turbo 4/6's, even the 4's are technically faster/better.

[brad850csi]

They make mention at the end of the track section that power drops off 30-40% after about 3 or 4 laps. I’d like to know what lap times were achievable then, I also can’t help but wonder if a long range wouldn’t tax the battery as much and keep its performance consistent.

They also mention each quarter mile run drops the battery about 2%, but they don’t mention how much the battery drops per lap of the track.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

dude, who cares anymore? people, rolls royce phantoms dont go around the track fast

obvi electric is superior. but its looks so sterile. plastic with a huge tablet in the middle.

[Lhshockey24]

The internal combustion engine has gone through decades of evolution and we have come to a point where there is nowhere left to go but the garages of classic car collectors.

Tesla built a mass-produced sedan, wrote some amazing software for the track, and in less than a year has pulled off this feat. I'm excited to see what they do within the next 10 years and what the fine folks at BMW will have up their sleeves for the all-electric M3 in 2028. The end result is WE ALL get to have a ton of fun, without the noise, pollution, and turbo-lag

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Don't forget exhaust note. Unless Tesla start to pipe in fake exhaust noises like BMW, the model 3's exhaust can't compare.

Thank you for adding the exhaust note. Exhaust acoustics are an internal part pf the driving experience. Otherwise, Akrapovic and other companies would be in business for a very short time.

Adding exhaust note to electric vehicles has come up as a regulatory topic for the future.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by Lhshockey24

The internal combustion engine has gone through decades of evolution and we have come to a point where there is nowhere left to go but the garages of classic car collectors.

Tesla built a mass-produced sedan, wrote some amazing software for the track, and in less than a year has pulled off this feat. I'm excited to see what they do within the next 10 years and what the fine folks at BMW will have up their sleeves for the all-electric M3 in 2028. The end result is WE ALL get to have a ton of fun, without the noise, pollution, and turbo-lag

That IS what's fun about a car. Take that away and you get an appliance. Effective and efficient, like a mass production piece of furniture, but nowhere near as valuable a piece of handmade furniture with mismatched front and rear leg carvings.

Every family needs an appliance that does a designed job

[GenXer]

Any Tesla competing at 24hr @ Daytona or LeMans yet?

They're talking 120 kw/h charger that will give 250 miles range for 1 hour of charge. Perhaps they could make a 480 kw/h charger that can do that in 15 minutes. Sadly, most electricity in the grid comes from nuclear and coal burning powerplants.

[MmmmmM2]

For me, real driving pleasure comes from hearing the engine and shifting the gears.

I also do not like the big tablet screen.

[JorgenM]

BMW will hit back as soon as they launch a BEV M3. Then even I will concider an M car (never liked the M car noise). For now I'm happy with my Model S and an i-Pace on order replacing my i3.

[xlover]

While the Tesla seems incredibly capable... reading through the detail the win was mostly driven by the greater power and torque. I kinda want to see an apples to apples comparison. bmw is building and equipping it's cars based on maintaining profit margins... if bmw was fine losing 700 million in a quarter I feel like the investment in the M3 would have 800 horsepower, much more powerful brakes and likely win this comparison.

[cfm56d7b]

Making a note to resurrect this thread when BMW i4 becomes available ...

[IS350]

I'm impressed. I agree with the pros and cons of the Tesla, still, a formidable opponent.

For a looks comparison, check out my video.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by F30ZHP

For me, real driving pleasure comes from hearing the engine and shifting the gears.

Noise about engine sounds is highly overblown (pun intended). It's highly amusing to read about exhaust note after five years worth of threads trashing the S55’s quietness and the fake-ness of the speaker-piped noises into the F8x cabins.

Shifting gears is, evidently, not something even BMW believes in anymore. They've stopped developing manual gearboxes years ago, and the old 6-speed is been dragged around from the E9x days into F8x. BMW has no plans to update it for G2x, or even offer it in higher performance ///M3 trims. I guess BMW AG does not believe it is a "thing" anymore.

Originally Posted by F30ZHP

I also do not like the big tablet screen.

I have one of each right now, ///M3 and TM3P, though not for long.

Model 3's center console screen can teach BMW, and all other traditional OEMs, a master class in intuitive and rich ergonomics, and quality UI. Getting into an F80 after driving TM3 feels like you are driving a car with dated interior. Tiny screens with iDrive’s click-5-times to confirm your selection. Tesla's ergonomics are absolutely an order of magnitude improvement on BMW experience. Visualize iPhone vs. Blackberry.

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Every family needs an appliance that does a designed job

Come on, no need to kick BMW in the nuts when it's car sales are down - that's just cruel and uncalled for. So what if 3/5 Series sales are declining while Tesla and luxury segment overall are growing. Some folks still love BMWs, and many of us still need ICE cars, and there is nothing wrong with that!

P.S.: ///M3 still has better front seats, though.

[cca101]

Alright guys its simple...the top gear guy whoever he may be, does not possess adequate driving skills...he quite frankly is a terrible driver. This makes the hot lap totally irrelevant. The only thing it proves is that a shitty driver can go faster in the tesla and that is not surprising considering the instant torque and throttle response will make up for atrocious lines, which I'm sure he carved all day long.

Here are some facts, he was almost certainly running the 2mile West Thunderhill track. Here is a video of this guy doing a 1:35 in a 200hp VW Gti...yea that happened.

And manual too.

Now things are getting a little more serious, this guy layed down a 1:24 in an M4..manual

10 seconds faster, no matter what mods that M4 has, not even comparable

And just for fun here is this guy putting down a 1:18 in a Z06..

And this top gear "adequate"driver put down the same time as a GTI with cars over twice the power...right on buddy

This article is nothing but rubbish, I'm sure Clarkson and Hammond would agree....absolute nonsense

[MmmmmM2]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Noise about engine sounds is highly overblown (pun intended). It's highly amusing to read about exhaust note after five years worth of threads trashing the S55’s quietness and the fake-ness of the speaker-piped noises into the F8x cabins.

Shifting gears is, evidently, not something even BMW believes in anymore. They've stopped developing manual gearboxes years ago, and the old 6-speed is been dragged around from the E9x days into F8x. BMW has no plans to update it for G2x, or even offer it in higher performance ///M3 trims. I guess BMW AG does not believe it is a "thing" anymore.

...

P.S.: ///M3 still has better front seats, though.

I don't drive an M3. I have an F30 with MPPSK so I don't have any sound being piped through the speakers.

I also don't want to have to always look to my right to see my gauges, I like them front and center thank you very much.

And I still think the Model 3 is still ugly. It also has poor build quality.

EV's may be the future, but it doesn't mean I have to like them and could also care less how fast they are because they sound like a golf cart.

[FeckinSpaceman]

Yes, but it looks like a Mazda 3. So while not denying the performance, simply ask yourself, “If a Mazda 3 cost $60k+, but it was electric, had rear-biased AWD, ~450hp, and could slightly out perform a BMW M3, would I buy it?”.

If you answer yes then buy a Model 3 and drive it like you stole it.

[hellrotm]

What tires come on the Model 3 Performance?

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by cca101

Alright guys its simple...the top gear guy whoever he may be, does not possess adequate driving skills...he quite frankly is a terrible driver. This makes the hot lap totally irrelevant. The only thing it proves is that a shitty driver can go faster in the tesla and that is not surprising considering the instant torque and throttle response will make up for atrocious lines, which I'm sure he carved all day long.

Here are some facts, he was almost certainly running the 2mile West Thunderhill track. Here is a video of this guy doing a 1:35 in a 200hp VW Gti...yea that happened.

It is Thunderhill West course.

Both those times he set are embarrassingly slow.

[blinkme323]

My biggest take away from that article is just how terrible the Model 3 looks next to the M3...

Hopefully Tesla has some aesthetic changes in store for the next gen, as I genuinely do think it has some potential.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

What tires come on the Model 3 Performance?

I see the Model 3 Performance Randy Pobst lapped around Streets of Willow had 10mm wider Michelin Cup 2 tires. A bit disingenuous for Tesla to be playing the tire game. I believe Model 3 Perf comes with Pilot Sport 4S tires standard. Which is already a much better tire than what comes on the M3. Either way this guy’s lap times are atrocious for both cars.