Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by cheveux

Sorry to bring back the main topic of the thread but... is anyone starting to like the M3/M4 now?

Heck no.

I had a parting gift from BMW for having the dumb G22 as my loaner for a week. I was extremely aware of the fact that the car is just hideous.

The front is still by far the worse thing I have seen in a very long time and I do not see that ever changing for me. Interior has gotten better but the digital layout is still irritating look at since it is all in the same color.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Is it just me or do these guys think they have more leverage than they do?

In briefings with the British press, senior executives for both BMW and Mercedes have foreshadowed plans to keep supply of new vehicles tight so they can maximise profits and maintain higher prices.

“We will consciously undersupply demand levels … at the same time we [will] shift gears towards the higher, the luxury end," Harald Wilhelm, Mercedes-Benz’s Chief Financial Officer, told the UK's Financial Times.

Nicolas Peter, Chief Financial Officer at BMW, said: “[We have] seen a significant improvement in pricing power in the last 24 months … [the plan is to maintain] the way we manage supply to maintain our pricing power on today’s level.”

Cause I"ll buy a K/H or a Tesla or whatever.

It's one thing to cut out the dealership and sell at MSRP - I'd be ok with that.

It's another to pull a Rolex and intentionally undersupply the market as a way to raise prices ... especially at the dawn of WFH, self-driving cars, Amazon Prime, and Lyft.

Maybe Porsche can get away with this, but I can't see BMW playing this game. Maaayyybe Benz for some models, but instead I think they'll just kill their brands as people switch over to the Koreans, Chinese, and Tesla.

They're placing a big bet on their branding... but I got news for them... If they push into higher price brackets, that competition is fierce and most people who regularly shop in that bracket don't exactly hold those brands (especially BMW) in very high regard.

The problem with BMW thinking they're a Rolex is that there's only room for one Rolex, and Porsche holds that crown right now. Not that BMW would ever be considered worthy enough to be in that position... attainability is a KEY factor in BMWs brand. Maybe they can aspire to be Tudor - nothing wrong with that, in fact it's plenty desirable simply because you are getting performance at or near a Rolex for much less. I guess that example may not work here 100% as Porsche doesn't own BMW like Rolex does Tudor.

[cheveux]

To be fair, it was thanks to BMW's bad design decision that I started thinking more about buying a Porsche.
If I have to stick with BMW, M5C or M850i. Nothing else.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

They're placing a big bet on their branding... but I got news for them... If they push into higher price brackets, that competition is fierce and most people who regularly shop in that bracket don't exactly hold those brands (especially BMW) in very high regard.

The problem with BMW thinking they're a Rolex is that there's only room for one Rolex, and Porsche holds that crown right now. Not that BMW would ever be considered worthy enough to be in that position... attainability is a KEY factor in BMWs brand. Maybe they can aspire to be Tudor - nothing wrong with that, in fact it's plenty desirable simply because you are getting performance at or near a Rolex for much less. I guess that example may not work here 100% as Porsche doesn't own BMW like Rolex does Tudor.

The best thing about BMW is, you can generally get a very good car for less than you would compared to other brands. That has been BMW's strength for years.

As soon as they start pushing against that idea is when you will start seeing the difference between a BMW, higher-end Mercedes and Porsche. There is no better example of this than the current 8 series. That car sold so badly that BMW had to stop making them for an entire year because people weren't buying them.

If that was the case, why in gods name would people pay more for a BMW if the choices you have were... better? Not to mention, hello, BMW (or any other companies) when it comes to markup, they don't MAKE the money from the markup. The dealerships do, they don't get jack from the markup $$. So, what exactly is their reason for limiting production for?

Porsche has gotten crap for doing this, for limiting GT productions and allowing scalpers to buy them instead of owners that would keep and enjoy them. Now see that happen to cars that don't cost nearly as much as a Porsche and we will see how their tone changes.

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Is it just me or do these guys think they have more leverage than they do?

In briefings with the British press, senior executives for both BMW and Mercedes have foreshadowed plans to keep supply of new vehicles tight so they can maximise profits and maintain higher prices.

"We will consciously undersupply demand levels … at the same time we [will] shift gears towards the higher, the luxury end," Harald Wilhelm, Mercedes-Benz's Chief Financial Officer, told the UK's Financial Times.

Nicolas Peter, Chief Financial Officer at BMW, said: "[We have] seen a significant improvement in pricing power in the last 24 months … [the plan is to maintain] the way we manage supply to maintain our pricing power on today's level."

Cause I"ll buy a K/H or a Tesla or whatever.

It's one thing to cut out the dealership and sell at MSRP - I'd be ok with that.

It's another to pull a Rolex and intentionally undersupply the market as a way to raise prices ... especially at the dawn of WFH, self-driving cars, Amazon Prime, and Lyft.

Maybe Porsche can get away with this, but I can't see BMW playing this game. Maaayyybe Benz for some models, but instead I think they'll just kill their brands as people switch over to the Koreans, Chinese, and Tesla.

They are liars and their pants are on fire. "Consciously withholding" supply of their mass market 1/2/3/4/5 series and CLA/C/E?

This strategy works for the CS and the Black Series. But even those exist in large part to provide a halo to sell the mass market commodity versions of the same line

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

The problem with BMW thinking they're a Rolex is that there's only room for one Rolex, and Porsche holds that crown right now ... attainability is a KEY factor in BMWs brand.

NAILED. it.

super-nerd take: if we're going with the watch analogy, I'd say:

* Ferrari = Patek (fairly unobtanium for mortals)
* Porsche 911 = Rolex (attainable, if you really want it & are willing to pay)
* Porsche 718 = Tudor (very attainable for $)
* Mercedes-Benz = Audemars Piguet (attainable, used to be hot ... but is it a one trick?)
* BMW = Omega (expensive, but attainability vs others is KEY)
* Audi = IWC/Panerai (attainable, used to be super hot but now?)
* Tesla = Ming (hot new thing, attainable, but low production)

[icegrill]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

They're placing a big bet on their branding... but I got news for them... If they push into higher price brackets, that competition is fierce and most people who regularly shop in that bracket don't exactly hold those brands (especially BMW) in very high regard.

The problem with BMW thinking they're a Rolex is that there's only room for one Rolex, and Porsche holds that crown right now. Not that BMW would ever be considered worthy enough to be in that position... attainability is a KEY factor in BMWs brand. Maybe they can aspire to be Tudor - nothing wrong with that, in fact it's plenty desirable simply because you are getting performance at or near a Rolex for much less. I guess that example may not work here 100% as Porsche doesn't own BMW like Rolex does Tudor.

I'm thinking bmw is more like a tag, used to cool but now looks dumb.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

NAILED. it.

super-nerd take: if we're going with the watch analogy, I'd say:

* Ferrari = Patek (fairly unobtanium for mortals)
* Porsche 911 = Rolex (attainable, if you really want it & are willing to pay)
* Porsche 718 = Tudor (very attainable for $)
* Mercedes-Benz = Audemars Piguet (attainable, used to be hot ... but is it a one trick?)
* BMW = Omega (expensive, but attainability vs others is KEY)
* Audi = IWC/Panerai (attainable, used to be super hot but now?)
* Tesla = Ming (hot new thing, attainable, but low production)

Does that mean I should get a Tudor

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Does that mean I should get a Tudor

Get a Rolex, always timeless like 911 with gradual improvements.
Recently picked up a Datejust.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Does that mean I should get a Tudor

ha, well, depends on if you like them!

The "tudor is a cheap rolex" narrative is bunk; Tudor is its own thing with its own image and features ... for example the Pelagos. For me, I like tool watches, so I naturally gravitate to Tudor over Rolex but ... not being one who supports the planned-undersupply business model, I can't support Rolex or Tudor on principle but also understand many don't have my hang-ups

Also, for me, a watch isn't luxury if I'm worried about resale - the whole point of luxury is how I feel acquiring & using it, not getting rid of it. (e.g., "I've never said - wow, this 5 star hotel is sold out, I think I'll buy an extra night and see if I can make a buck selling it")

I more/less began moving away from dress watches in 2015 when I stopped wearing suits - I still appreciate them, but they're not me; I like tooly tool watches like Sinn, g-shock Mr-G, etc ... though maybe Omega fits in there. I also like the JDM travel Casio toolies like Oceanus. And beyond that Garmin Tactix is on my list.


blahblahblah Ok so if I was going to buy a car watch, what would it be?

Well, Breitling is pretty on-the-nose there lately with the vintage Cobra / Mustang / Corvette models:



And the Carl F Bucherer Manero Flyback on the rally strap is pretty cool:



But the greatest Porsche watch of all time is, of course, the Monaco (the version with the gulf livery is cool too):

[swagon]

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

ha, well, depends on if you like them!

The "tudor is a cheap rolex" narrative is bunk; Tudor is its own thing with its own image and features ... for example the Pelagos. For me, I like tool watches, so I naturally gravitate to Tudor but ... not being one who supports the planned-undersupply business model, I can't support Rolex or Tudor on principle but also understand many don't have my hang-ups

I more/less began moving away from dress watches in 2015 when I stopped wearing suits - I still appreciate them, but they're not me; I like tooly tool watches like Sinn, g-shock Mr-G, etc ... though maybe Omega fits in there. I also like the JDM travel Casio toolies like Oceanus. And beyond that Garmin Tactix is on my list.

I'm low-key eyeing a Pelagos right now... and not just because you posted it, I've actually been narrowing it down for a while and concluded that the Pelagos is it. Just fits my vibe.

Damn you Gruss for sending me down this rabbit hole. And damn you Apex and Titan7 for being too successful and not having wheels and tires in time to burn this money on. Damn you all to heck

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by swagon

That's exactly the kind of filth I like to see on a front end (speaking about your F80)

[swagon]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

That's exactly the kind of filth I like to see on a front end (speaking about your F80)

I'm very much into detailing, but there's something about brake dust, dead bugs and rubber marks that makes me feel some type of way. Keep it clean and protected, but don't be afraid to make it dirty.

The E30 was a genuine M3 with Sport Evo-spec engine and DTM parts.

Girodisc rotors turned out to be a worthwhile upgrade indeed.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by swagon

I'm very much into detailing, but there's something about brake dust, dead bugs and rubber marks that makes me feel some type of way. Keep it clean and protected, but don't be afraid to make it dirty.

The E30 was a genuine M3 with Sport Evo-spec engine and DTM parts.

Girodisc rotors turned out to be a worthwhile upgrade indeed.

Yes this. So much this. I keep my car pretty clean and looking good, but I'm also not afraid to get it dirty whether that be track / autox days or road trips or whatever. I love the "patina" that a car gets when it's actually used even when you clean it. It's kind of like you see it lined up at a meet all cleaned up but can tell it's all business and think... "this thing f*cks". Not one of the pretty boys that rarely sees the outside of a garage

[swagon]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Yes this. So much this. I keep my car pretty clean and looking good, but I'm also not afraid to get it dirty whether that be track / autox days or road trips or whatever. I love the "patina" that a car gets when it's actually used even when you clean it. It's kind of like you see it lined up at a meet all cleaned up but can tell it's all business and think... "this thing f*cks". Not one of the pretty boys that rarely sees the outside of a garage

Some level of patina on the exterior is charming, yes.

Mine sees snow and salt, these things are just a 3 Series after all. The plan is to have it forever and do a restoration when needed.

But then again, having a summer car that's spotless even after a decade is pretty cool. The 135i was like that for the first few years, it was such a special occasion to drive it. I would wipe the exhaust tips after each drive. Now two weeks in between washes totally suffice and the M3 is the car of choice. It often sits for weeks but gets taken out for track days or bigger trips which is why the mileage has gone up so much since buying it, I was actually surprised lol

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by cheveux

To be fair, it was thanks to BMW's bad design decision that I started thinking more about buying a Porsche.
If I have to stick with BMW, M5C or M850i. Nothing else.

Welcome aboard, same here

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

NAILED. it.

super-nerd take: if we're going with the watch analogy, I'd say:

* Ferrari = Patek (fairly unobtanium for mortals)
* Porsche 911 = Rolex (attainable, if you really want it & are willing to pay)
* Porsche 718 = Tudor (very attainable for $)
* Mercedes-Benz = Audemars Piguet (attainable, used to be hot ... but is it a one trick?)
* BMW = Omega (expensive, but attainability vs others is KEY)
* Audi = IWC/Panerai (attainable, used to be super hot but now?)
* Tesla = Ming (hot new thing, attainable, but low production)

You're always spot on. I would only differ here by saying Tesla to me is your Apple Watch haha. Both in attainability (model 3) and parallels in tech.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

You're always spot on. I would only differ here by saying Tesla to me is your Apple Watch haha. Both in attainability (model 3) and parallels in tech.

great point!

[Tecnniqe]

I should get a watch

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

I'm low-key eyeing a Pelagos right now...

if you're a tool-bro the Pelagos is awesome, totally my pick, and I've been millimeters away from buying one a few times. You can't go wrong with either, the blue is cool, though my pick would be the simple black & white; super legible high contrast, just an ole trusty ... and the clasp might be the best in the industry.

Don't try it on if you're not serious because you'll walk out with it

Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

I should get a watch

Ha, it's like the car bug: once you're in, it's hard to get out ... though the nice thing is, they last a lifetime. Ideally buy one for an important event or milestone - super fun to look back on years later.

[swagon]

This guy... 🤦🏻*♂️