Need genuine advice- keep or trade in M3? (Fear of SCH issue)

[UGADawgFan]

Hi Everyone,

I have a serious need of advice of what to do with my 2016 M3. I purchased my car last November to replace my old 08 M3. It's a very loaded non-ZCP, SO, DCT, Exec Pack, Drivers Assist Package, all the camera's, with about 23k miles on it. I rarely drive it since I work from home- probably around 200 miles a month at most. I very much enjoy the car and love the way it looks.

However, I made a mistake I fear. I flash tuned it about a month or so ago and based on what I've read, I've ruined my warranty- no matter if I flash back to stock or not. I am going to flash the tune back to stock this weekend (and I only put about 300 miles on the car with the tune). It should also be said, that outside of the tune, some BMC drop in air filters, and a ZCP muffler, my car is stock from a performance mod perspective.

What has me spooked is of course the fear of the spun crank hub. I know everyone talks about "having to pay to play and all that", but while I can easily afford the car, I cannot really afford having a major $10-$20K engine repair from a spun crank hub that would most likely be declined to be repaired by BMW (since everyone is in agreement that they would find out about the tune anyway- even if it's years down the road and the SCH spins on its own with the stock tune).


Now, it should be said that my car has never given me any indication of anything wrong. Literally everything is a ok. I am not really an aggressive driver, I like doing an occasional 3rd to 4th gear highway pull, but beyond that, it's just fun to "feel" that I have the power, rather than actually utilize it. I don't track the car, mostly just cruising on a nice day on beautiful empty Washington mountain roads.

However, now I'm genuinely afraid to open it up. As I mentioned, I'm going to flash back to stock and leaving it that way, but it won't help things if a year down the road, shit happens and I am stuck with a repair bill. I honestly thought I was buying a BMW Supra, but it's clear that's not the case.

Because of this- I'm thinking about just trading the car in and getting a CPO 2014 or 2015 Cayman S 6 spd (because I'd want the flat 6), which I would just leave alone and enjoy the drive. While I understand any car can break, at least it would be warrantied for a few years.

I probably would break even on a trade, but I could also part out my cosmetic stuff (Volk wheels, diffuser, front lip, etc).

I would love to hear your thoughts. Is my fear unwarranted or should I cut bait and move on? Thanks everyone.

[G1n Mast3r]

I'm going to get flamed for this. I just know it. That being said, the forums while great for some things, can be a bad indication of actual failure rate. Generally speaking the failure rate is small enough that BMW isn't willing to issue a total and complete recall for all S55 engines to date. That doesn't mean they aren't aware of the issue but the failure rate whether tuned or not tuned is so minute that BMW isn't so much as batting an eye.

Now, from personal experience, my last F80 was a 2015 (Build date of 2/2015 kinda funny as my new on is 2/2018 but I digress) which I had tuned for approximately 20k miles possibly more I'd have to go back and check. But I drove that car hard relatively speaking. It was my daily for the 2 years and change that I had it, most of which were tuned relatively hard miles without any issue what so ever.

Like you I agree, I can afford the car, but a costly repair bill is anyone's worst nightmare. IMHO the SCH is so rare in the grand scheme of things, I would keep the car and enjoy. Or if the Porsche is truly calling your name and you don't need the extra room and doors then go for it.

But the point i'm really trying to make is that the SCH is so rare on these cars tuned or not and the forums only make it worse in the sense that it seems like everyone has the issue but in reality a very small percentage of users or owners will ever experience a SCH. So IMHO the fear ins't necessarily unwarranted, as it does have some merit, but overall I think SCH is so rare it shouldn't be something that is at the forefront of your mind so much so that you want to give up the car.

So the TL;DR is enjoy your beautiful M3 and all it has to offer. Unless you want a Porsche, in which case get the Porsche :P

[Deteria]

I think best solution is get a Max PSI or Gintani Crank Hub installed. Should cost around ~4k?

Honestly I do worry about this, but as any forum browser, I am taking into account that generally people will post to complain and seldom post to compliment. There are tons of M owners that don't browse the forums, so keep in mind the skewed results.

Like you, I do plan to get a Porsche later to avoid all this, but in the mean time I'm going to enjoy my car or possibly bulletproof the motor with the MaxPSI solution. Those Porsche GT cars are just too damn expensive for me right now.

[cryptz]

i am saving up for a max psi fix and the labor that goes along with it as well. installed by maxpsi it was a bit less than what you indicated (quoted).

[CigarPundit]

I agree with G1n Masr3r. Only a small percentage of M3 owners are posting on forums. I’m tuned and I certainly don’t lose any sleep over the SCH issue. Posts on a forum do not provide any objective metric to put the issue in perspective. I’m not saying that BMW should not have made the CH more robust, but I certainly would not let the SCH issue drive my purchase decision.

[Darth One]

i haven't bothered to fully research the SCH issue, but it sounds like some guys are saying that there's a way to strengthen the hub as a preventative maintenance? if so, then why not just do that for your peace of mind? surely it's less expensive than all the fees, depreciation hits, etc. you'd take on a trade-in?

going to Porsche isn't going to make things worry-free. the 981 non-GT4 Cayman hasn't had pattern problems AFAIK but we've had IMS issues on the previous 911's, engine replacements on the early 991 GT3's, transmission and strut tower failures on GT4's...i agree that a lot of this stuff is overblown and easily addressed with attention and preventive maintenance.

[CigarPundit]

Every mechanical system has a failure point.

[NickyC]

Meh, read enough on the internet and a simple skin rash means you have skin cancer and 2 months to live. Fear mongering is inherent in the internet, I wouldn't even worry about it.

[damageprone]

If you happen to have signed up for Geico MBI, this should make you feel better.

[Lee808]

I honestly think this is a question that the OP can only answer. Does the benefit outweigh cost and risks? If so, keep the car and enjoy it to it's fullest. You only get one ticket this is the only guarantee...if it's not worth it, get something else's you think you'll like.

Just remember risk is ALWAYS there. Even the most well known most reliable cars can have one-off catastrophic problems.

My extra two cents — if the SCH was a major problem for the S55, bimmerpost would be on fire from complaints. It doesn't mean it can't happen to you but it may suggest that your risk is lower than you may have originally perceived.

My advice. Enjoy the car. It is an amazing machine.

[UGADawgFan]

Thanks to all for the responses... Makes me feel better.. Anyone know shops in the Atlanta area that can do the crank hub install?

[UGADawgFan]

Originally Posted by Lee808

Just remember risk is ALWAYS there. Even the most well known most reliable cars can have one-off catastrophic problems.

My extra two cents — if the SCH was a major problem for the S55, bimmerpost would be on fire from complaints. It doesn't mean it can't happen to you but it may suggest that your risk is lower than you may have originally perceived.

My advice. Enjoy the car. It is an amazing machine.

Agree with you... But I've never owned a car where a catastrophic failure costs basically the same as buying a new Civic.

Makes me appreciate how smart lotus was for using the Camry motor in the Evora... If you blow it up, it's a Camry engine.

[MisterF80M3]

Originally Posted by UGADawgFan

Agree with you... But I've never owned a car where a catastrophic failure costs basically the same as buying a new Civic.

Makes me appreciate how smart lotus was for using the Camry motor in the Evora... If you blow it up, it's a Camry engine.

I wish I knew about this issue before buying my M3.. A repair that cost as much as a new civic..

[DanMpower]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

I wish I knew about this issue before buying my M3.. A repair that cost as much as a new civic..

Not just a Civic, but a new Civic Type R.

[AMOR]

OP, don’t think that Porsche won’t have any problems. In fact any car has some skeletons in the shelf (i.e. weak points). Based on what I researched here, SCH issues are more likely to occur in DCT cars and earlier build (2015/16), but still pretty rare and not connected with how hard the car was driven. Most likely it’s just a random manufacturing defect, as some people had it happen to them at 7k miles of mild driving, and others have no issues for 30k miles on 600 rwhp cars heavily tuned and hard driven. My point is - going back to stock will not change anything, you still have 1% chance that it will happen. If you have the guts to drive an M3 - drive it at full potential and enjoy that beast. Or just sell it and get a Civic instead, I heard they’re pretty reliable.

[UGADawgFan]

Originally Posted by AMOR

OP, don’t think that Porsche won’t have any problems. In fact any car has some skeletons in the shelf (i.e. weak points). Based on what I researched here, SCH issues are more likely to occur in DCT cars and earlier build (2015/16), but still pretty rare and not connected with how hard the car was driven. Most likely it’s just a random manufacturing defect, as some people had it happen to them at 7k miles of mild driving, and others have no issues for 30k miles on 600 rwhp cars heavily tuned and hard driven. My point is - going back to stock will not change anything, you still have 1% chance that it will happen. If you have the guts to drive an M3 - drive it at full potential and enjoy that beast. Or just sell it and get a Civic instead, I heard they’re pretty reliable.

This is exactly my car... 2016 model, DCT...with- I can't recall exactly- but either a May or June 2015 build

I'm going to go test drive an Evora S and the Cayman S on tuesday...we shall see how it goes.

[UGADawgFan]

Originally Posted by damageprone

If you happen to have signed up for Geico MBI, this should make you feel better.

No, my car is too "old" to have this coverage..and over the 15k mileage cap to sign up. Also, per the MBI policy:

*MBI Exclusions

Exclusions to this policy include regular maintenance services such as tune-ups, suspension alignment, wheel balancing, filters, lubrication, coolant and fluids, spark plugs, brake pads and linings, brake shoes, and tires. Also, breakdown repairs made necessary by intentional damage, corrosion, misuse, or improper maintenance are not covered. Mechanical Breakdown Insurance coverage is in excess of coverage provided by your manufacturer's warranty. Read the policy amendment for the complete terms and conditions of this coverage.


I'm sure a flash tune and engine mods would be considered "intentional misuse"

[Lee808]

Originally Posted by UGADawgFan

Agree with you... But I've never owned a car where a catastrophic failure costs basically the same as buying a new Civic.

Makes me appreciate how smart lotus was for using the Camry motor in the Evora... If you blow it up, it's a Camry engine.

Lol, I don't think that was their intention but its funny. Small side note, the Exige and Elise shared the 2ZZ motor with the Toyota Celica too. I sat in the Evora once...hated it. I had to climb in and over the side frames of the monocoque cabin. It had a very "Lotus" feel to it just to say the least. If smaller roadster type cars are your thing then you may like it. I have yet to see one on the road.

[clutchdj]

Had a 16 f80 with a September build if I recall correctly. Was also tuned. Moved into an 18 f80 zcp. Don’t care to tune the current f80. Happy with power and control, with all nannies off. I too was concerned about the SCH, especially since there’s a “revised bed plate”. Life’s to short to worry about your car failing. The Porsche not a dual purpose vehicle but get what you want. You can always come back to a CPo’ed F80.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by AMOR

OP, don’t think that Porsche won’t have any problems. In fact any car has some skeletons in the shelf (i.e. weak points). Based on what I researched here, SCH issues are more likely to occur in DCT cars and earlier build (2015/16), but still pretty rare and not connected with how hard the car was driven. Most likely it’s just a random manufacturing defect, as some people had it happen to them at 7k miles of mild driving, and others have no issues for 30k miles on 600 rwhp cars heavily tuned and hard driven. My point is - going back to stock will not change anything, you still have 1% chance that it will happen. If you have the guts to drive an M3 - drive it at full potential and enjoy that beast. Or just sell it and get a Civic instead, I heard they’re pretty reliable.

I always see this line repeated of "the 2015-16 cars are more prone to the failure" but where does that come from? If the recent poll posted on here is any indication (and I am not suggesting it is) then the 2017 models actually appear to have the highest failure rate.

[drgmt]

Keep it if you like the car sell it if you think it's time to move on. There is no logical statistical basis to move the car on for crank hub issues.

For me it got far to tiresome trying to make the car sound good - in the end I gave up.

For piece of mind you might update the crank hub although I'm not convinced that there is sufficient evidence these solutions work.

[BluM4]

Based on the survey, 0% of 2015/2016 stock tune cars have the SCH problem. I feel like your risk is very low as long as you keep the car stock.

I was actually ready to pull the trigger for the Stage 1 BM3 and now decided not do it. 9% failure rate is too high a number and the performance gain is not worth to risk $20-30K.