Official BMW M3 M4 Specs: 430HP, 369+ LB-FT, Under 3306 Pounds, Bi-Turbo Inline 6 Cyl

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by ramuman

I'm curious at what point an engine stops being a derivative. The S55 has a different block design and construction, different turbos, different pistons, adds VANOS and likely a different ECU compared to the N55.

Not to mention going from a undersquare bore/stroke to a oversquare bore/stroke

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Editorial added in brackets...

I hardly think that the pool of those interested in the benefits of normally aspirated engines is shrinking. What a turbo lag apologist point of view...

Or, as the other side would say: What a torque deficit apologist point of view...

[///Megalomaniac]

Here you have two videos, where you can actually hear the sound pretty good!

And in the second video you can see the production yellow colour again, if you look "under" the hood

http://grip-magazin.de/index.php?id=317

[m3evobr]

Originally Posted by ramuman

I'm curious at what point an engine stops being a derivative. The S55 has a different block design and construction, different turbos, different pistons, adds VANOS and likely a different ECU compared to the N55.

3.0 liter 6 cyl, and maybe with same bore and stroke. When the time comes we will know. They say based ON.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

Great job to BMW on the specifications of this car. I will admit my skepticism about this car for quite a while now, but they have implemented a lot of things I wish they would have done a long time ago.

1) Rear Axle. The solid mounted rear sub-frame should have been done nearly 13 year ago starting with the E46 M3 when power levels started to rise substantially and cars began to break the 3000 lb weight barrier. I can't believe it has taken them this long to do so.

2) Power Level. I personally am a big fan that the car doesn't boast tons of HP, the E92 M3 can sometimes be a bit much to handle and has the right amount of power to feel balanced and controlled while having precisely the right amount of power and torque to get you around the track. Long live the S65B40, as we will never see anything like that ever again. Drive some of these high HP high TQ cars (F13 M6, F10 M5, C63, etc) and any driver will come to appreciate the tame and controllable power delivery.

3) Improvement. It is with no doubt that M cars always get better with each new iteration. Agree with BMW's direction and newer ///M philosophy or not, the cars simply get better. Better is not measured in seat of the pants feel, or how it makes us feel emotionally. Again, we are talking about BMW M, everything is based on data, fact, mathematics and engineering and finalized with empirical data (technical observation, track testing). On paper, the cars will get better, always. The same way the E92 is better than the E46, the E46 better than the E36 and so on. Yes, the F10/F13 M5 & M6 are better than their predecessors. Unfortunately the E60/E63 cars were plagued with an abysmal SMG. I always wished the DCT technology could have existed at that time to be paired with that gem of an engine we all know as the S85.

4) Engine. BMW is doing the best they can to provide all of us the the best car they can. We all must understand, times are changing, government regulations on emissions are getting tough, and the engineers don't have free reign to make engines like the S65 any more. If they could, they would. Time to embrace the changes. Before we know it, the M3/M4 could become a 3 cylinder hybrid car, although I hope not . FOr those of us fortunate enough to have had the pleasure of owning S65, S54's, S85's and so fourth, enjoy it. If fortunate enough, don't sell your cars and put them away. Nothing wrong with having an E9x M3 and an F8x M. The competition within the brand needs to stop. A lot of comparing the E9x and F8x going on here. Let's not forget, this car is an evolution of the E9x, after all. Let's also not forget how long the E9x reigned king and remained on top despite aging.

I do have my concerns with this S55 powerplant and heat soak issues, especially as its employing and air-water intercooler. All N54 and N55 cars (yes including the N54 powered 1M) has major heat issues and power inconsistency during track sessions. Turbo engines generally run hot in comparison to NA variants.

5) Lag free operation. I still am on the fence in regards to this. BMW has made this claim time and time again and has not delivered repeatedly. The initial N54 cars was BMW's best bet at power response. As soon as cars began getting hit with PROGMAN 29.2 update and the new MSD81 DME, throttle lag and power delivery was greatly affected in a negative way. The 2007 and early 2008 cars were the best iteration of minimal lag. The new turbo M cars are plagued with lag in regards to full power delivery. Throttle response is not the problem and the electronic throttles are spectacular in BMW's. The problem is not in how soon the car response to our right foot, what people will miss is holding the car at 5000 RPM, mashing their foot to the floor and full power is on tap without a hitch. These days are over.

6) It's competition. BMW will once again be the winner. This is what BMW does with the M3M4, it wins. The M3 (now M4) is BMW's M baby, not the M5 or M6. This car will be no different. BMW will beat MB AMG, Audi RS, Lexus. They are after Porsche and that gap is getting closer and closer as the years go by. While many didn't like the M3 GTS and called it a poor attempt at recreating the CSL, it was faster than the CSL around the Nordschleife, it was and still is a spectacular car. The GTS gave Porsche a run for their money with their greatest car, the GT3RS with the 3.8. Porsche followed up with an encore presentation of the GT3 with the 4.0 to open up the gap with any possible competition.

BMW knows they can beat Audi and MB AMG with the M3/M4, they are after the ultimate road car king, and that is Porsche.

7) Tuning/Modification. This talk is very speculative. Fact of the matter is, BMW has made it extremely difficult to modify and tune the newer turbo platforms. The days of tuning the factory turbo car with some bolt on modifications and a tune to yield 150 RWHP gain like the N54 days are over. This is already evident on the N55, N20, S63 and S63Tu. If we are talking about modifications, there is no doubt a blown S65 will annihilate this I6 turbo car while modded. Let's not bring the 2JZ-GTE and R35 GT-R and how they are 6 cylinders talk into this. Modding the GT-R to make monster power is not cheap even though its much easier to tune the car in comparison to BMW's newer turbo cars. Even fully modded single turbo N54 can't hold much of a candle to blown S65's.

8) Weight Reduction. This is still very speculative as BMW has not claimed how the car is being measured with weight. We have consistently seen E92 M3's weighing in the 35xx range and even the 34xx range. 1xx pounds of weight loss is going to be very hard pressed to notice, even for the better drivers out there. On the street, as far as handling dynamics goes, we aren't going to notice it much, if at all. Naturally some of the weight loss comes from a lighter smaller engine, the CF propeller shaft, the lighter boot lid. Unfortunately, for those of us who have owned E9x and F30 cars, know that some of the weight loss is also contributed to the borderline cheap feeling of the F3x interior. It simply has a less premium feel to it and utilizes more plastics.

9) Electric Power Steering. Let's see what happens. The F30's steering is a joke. I hate driving my F30 because of this reason alone. They need to make some serious changes here. If Porsche could do it, then BMW should be able to as well.

10) Aesthetics. As always, this is subjective. All BMW M3's have special place in time and have their own beauty and charm and age gracefully. The E92 M3 is undeniably STILL one of the most beautiful cars on the road shy of exotics. It has intense road presence. A beautiful E46 M3, E36 and M3 are no different and they will still turn heads, especially amongst us any car enthusiast. You don't have to be a BMW lover to admit this.

At the end of the day, I am personally more excited about this car compared to before, and very excited to get my hands on it and further improve it. I also can't wait to see what the M2 will be. If money were no object, I would love to own all variants of the M3 cars. They all have a special place in my heart.

-Malek

Spot on. I will keep my E92 and spend the money to look after the car. It's a keeper despite all the bearing concerns around.

[Jason]

Update:

Added VIDEOS section in tech guide (first post) with animated technical presentation video.

[alpinab6]

I'm looking forward to see the new ///M3 and the new ///M4!
I'm glad to see that BMW comes back to the inline 6 cylinder but I regret they use turbo.Personaly, I'd have rather prefer the atmospheric engine like the E36 or E46!!!!

[SoCalS2k]

Originally Posted by m3evobr

3.0 liter 6 cyl, and maybe with same bore and stroke. When the time comes we will know. They say based ON.

S55 has different bore/stroke than N55. The stats are in the first post.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by m3evobr

3.0 liter 6 cyl, and maybe with same bore and stroke. When the time comes we will know. They say based ON.

You did read the posts/thread about bore and stroke?

It won't have the same bore and stroke as the N55.

[SukSqueezeBangBlo]

The top mounted intercooler kinda worries me. Doesn't seem like it will cool those turbos well enough. I bet BMW knows more than i do though lol

[m3evobr]

Originally Posted by SoCalS2k

S55 has different bore/stroke than N55. The stats are in the first post.

Ops, I missed that.

Originally Posted by Boss330

You did read the posts/thread about bore and stroke?

It won't have the same bore and stroke as the N55.

No missed that, that's why I actually said when the time comes....

[NAV8TT]

The specs

[Pentium]

amazing! that's amazing!

[Technic]

Originally Posted by solstice

It's not just cost savings. All the power biased comments here make it pretty clear that the majority of M3 buyers are mostly after power and performance and not "feel". FI can give you much more impressive power and performance figures so it's a win-win at the expense of a shrinking pool of old-school purists.

I keep reading about these so called "purists" and I wonder if they actually buy any new cars, much less M3s.

The problem with "feel" is that you can get much more with a $25,000 Miata than with an M3. The new M3/M4 will be expensive, high performance cars, so by definition that "feel" must include power and performance.

[Race 1]

God reading some of these comments hurt my eye
Balls. I remember when the V8 M3 came out, everyone
Hated it, calling it an ugly fat pig - now people sit in
Here saying its the best thing since sliced bread.
Who cares if its FI, the fact is the car will probably
Be absolutely fantastic in many way. Sure NA is gone,
But in reality who really gives a crap? I mean, at least
Now you can actually bolt on an expensive exhaust and
Get a dyno tune performed and see more than 5hp/tq
Gain to the wheels. The car is evolving and I am glad
It is doing so. The switch from NA to FI is the last thing
To keep me up at night. To be honest, the switch couldn't
Have came fast enough for me! MB, Audi, etc are all doing
It so relax everyone, it isn't new technology. Even muscle
Cars like the corvette and mustang are coming from the
Factory with FI plopped ontop of their big displacement
Motors. Just remember back to when the e9x M3 came
Out and how much everyone hated it for being too big,
Too fat, too heavy, too slow, too expensive, too "unraw"
Compared to the E46, and finally too "ill never buy that
POS. And now years later it IS a great car that most of
Us have upgraded to from our E46 M3's. For anyone
Wondering I still drive my E46 M3 and plan to do so
Until I pick up a 1M, M2 (fingers crossed), or E90
M3. Will I consider the new M3? Absolutely, love the sedan
Only version especially, however it may be too expensive
When it first pops out of the womb!

[Necromancer]

How soon before the press get the cars for evaluation?

[m3evobr]

Originally Posted by Race 1

God reading some of these comments hurt my eye
Balls. I remember when the V8 M3 came out, everyone
Hated it, calling it an ugly fat pig - now people sit in
Here saying its the best thing since sliced bread.
Who cares if its FI, the fact is the car will probably
Be absolutely fantastic in many way. Sure NA is gone,
But in reality who really gives a crap? I mean, at least
Now you can actually bolt on an expensive exhaust and
Get a dyno tune performed and see more than 5hp/tq
Gain to the wheels. The car is evolving and I am glad
It is doing so. The switch from NA to FI is the last thing
To keep me up at night. To be honest, the switch couldn't
Have came fast enough for me! MB, Audi, etc are all doing
It so relax everyone, it isn't new technology. Even muscle
Cars like the corvette and mustang are coming from the
Factory with FI plopped ontop of their big displacement
Motors. Just remember back to when the e9x M3 came
Out and how much everyone hated it for being too big,
Too fat, too heavy, too slow, too expensive, too "unraw"
Compared to the E46, and finally too "ill never buy that
POS. And now years later it IS a great car that most of
Us have upgraded to from our E46 M3's. For anyone
Wondering I still drive my E46 M3 and plan to do so
Until I pick up a 1M, M2 (fingers crossed), or E90
M3. Will I consider the new M3? Absolutely, love the sedan
Only version especially, however it may be too expensive
When it first pops out of the womb!

Still think that the E90 is all of the above, one of the biggest reasons I never bought one. At the time ended with a C63 instead, which wasn't so big, but was a pig with massive torque and a great daily, because at the end is all what they are.

Big
Heavy
underpowered for it's weight

But the engine is a great piece.

Time for an M3 to be an M3 again.
Not a fan of the turbo engine, but this is no news for BMW as they have their first turbo production in the 70s.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I hardly think that the pool of those interested in the benefits of normally aspirated engines is shrinking.

Wake up and smell the paradigm shift.

Reality is calling...

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I firmly disagree.

Both Porsche and Ferrari have shown strong commitment to normally aspirated sports cars. They are doing it not because the government said they can't but because it is critical for the essence of their cars. They are doing things like weight reduction, direct injection and these provided more performance along with more fuel efficiency. I know it is not the best comparison, a BMW is not a Porsche nor a Ferrari, nor are the companies similar in size nor philosophies, still the comparison can and should be made.

Ferrari announced this week that all their next gen cars will be turbo-charged.

I don't think Ferrari is a good comparo anyway, though Porsche certainly is.

[alpinab6]

I'm very happy that BMW uses Standard 6 speed manual transmission

[paddy335]

The irony of this whole FI vs NA debate re the E9x M3 is that the N54 was the engine originally intended for the E9x M3 until Audi and MB came out with NA engines in the RS4 and C63, and BMW followed suit for marketing reasons. Hence the huge potential that came in the massively detuned N54 engine in the 335i.

So it is only marketing that lead to an NA engine in the M3. So BMW are going with FI in the M3 many years after they wanted to.

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I firmly disagree.

Both Porsche and Ferrari have shown strong commitment to normally aspirated sports cars. They are doing it not because the government said they can't but because it is critical for the essence of their cars. They are doing things like weight reduction, direct injection and these provided more performance along with more fuel efficiency. I know it is not the best comparison, a BMW is not a Porsche nor a Ferrari, nor are the companies similar in size nor philosophies, still the comparison can and should be made.

The reason BMW is not doing so is due to cost cutting and desires for higher profit. There are so few M cars made relative to the BMW fleet that BMW could have easily kept the M3,4,5,6 all high revving and normally aspirated. The lower fuel efficiency from these cars would not dramatically nor crucially affect their fleet average fuel efficiency and thus the fines would be non-existent or inconsequential.

I'm fine with a respectful disagreement, however you are comparing a BMW to a Ferrari. A vehicle (Ferrari 458) that is 3 times the price of a loaded M4 will be. A standard 458 is also equipped with an Aluminum Monocoque and weighs 3050 lbs dry. Cost is a major factor, and I do agree with you that BMW is cutting corners with FI. It also seems that BMW is trying to rid their M vehicles of penalties and taxes for being gas guzzlers. FI is the only way for them to accomplish this.

Not to mention Ferrari is already switching over to FI.

By the way, I love all your posts.