Anyone planning on picking up a G8X and tracking it?

[USSEnterprise]

Originally Posted by Bon F80

G82 M4C vs GT4 by Fifth Gear. This M4C is equipped with the optional Michelin Cup 2.

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1815107

Another unfavorable review for the G80 (Matt Farrah and Chris Harris being the others). The believers will say “oh so and so doesn’t know what he’s talking about so I don’t care what they have to say” but you can’t use that same argument to discount every journalist out there. Other than straight line speed, not seeing a lot of good reviews, but plenty of negatives about looks and weight and gearbox.

What I think is criminal is to fit a single piston rear caliper in a 4000 lb car.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I happen to know one the BMW corporate guys who voids warranties left right and center. As long as the car is on the stock tune (includes dct etc) and it only participated in DEs with street legal tires, they may not be happy about it but your blown engine is 100% covered.

I have literally zero concerns over this

Edit: last weekend the CS was 3 seconds slower than the M4 GT4 racecar at VIR. I have the stock engine/diff etc software, Alcon-BW BBK and MCS 3WR suspension. No aero, no proper slicks, over 3600lb without me in it. The last thing this car needs is more power unless the driver is extremely good. More power is literally the last thing a non pro track driver needs.

I've tracked all my ///Ms over the last 20 years and never had any issue with warranty coverage. Even had BMW goodwill some repairs post warranty.

[USSEnterprise]

OK I was at motorsports ranch cresson today (a track here in the Dallas area) and ran into a G82 Competition that was being tracked. My first time seeing one of these in the flesh. Had a long conversation with the owner and walked around and sat in the car. The new carbon buckets are freaking awesome. Styling is as ugly as the pictures, car does not somehow look better in person.

The biggest thing that stuck out like a sore thumb is this car had the optional carbon brakes and still only had a two piston rear caliper. Why would a car company make a car several hundred pounds heavier and then downsize the rear brakes (my F80 rear CCB calipers are 4 piston)?????? I'd love to hear the fanbois defend this move.

Keep in mind BMW has a history of penny pinching and then eating shit. They said some strange marketing unconvincing story when they went to house brand calipers on the S1000RR bikes from Brembo monoblocs in the previous generation. They finally gave in and are doing recalls and installing brembo Stylemas like they should have on a flagship bike making 210 hp.

Strange company with such inconsistent decision making. A great car every now and then, but not a consistent line of great cars or design and engineering philosophy.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

OK I was at motorsports ranch cresson today (a track here in the Dallas area) and ran into a G82 Competition that was being tracked. My first time seeing one of these in the flesh. Had a long conversation with the owner and walked around and sat in the car. The new carbon buckets are freaking awesome. Styling is as ugly as the pictures, car does not somehow look better in person.

The biggest thing that stuck out like a sore thumb is this car had the optional carbon brakes and still only had a two piston rear caliper. Why would a car company make a car several hundred pounds heavier and then downsize the rear brakes (my F80 rear CCB calipers are 4 piston)?????? I'd love to hear the fanbois defend this move.

Keep in mind BMW has a history of penny pinching and then eating shit. They said some strange marketing unconvincing story when they went to house brand calipers on the S1000RR bikes from Brembo monoblocs in the previous generation. They finally gave in and are doing recalls and installing brembo Stylemas like they should have on a flagship bike making 210 hp.

Strange company with such inconsistent decision making. A great car every now and then, but not a consistent line of great cars or design and engineering philosophy.

Was it giving or getting point bys?

[USSEnterprise]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Was it giving or getting point bys?

I was tracking my bike yesterday, only saw the G82 in the pit and talked to owner. Did not see it run.

[F80Speed77]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

The biggest thing that stuck out like a sore thumb is this car had the optional carbon brakes and still only had a two piston rear caliper. Why would a car company make a car several hundred pounds heavier and then downsize the rear brakes (my F80 rear CCB calipers are 4 piston)?????? I'd love to hear the fanbois defend this move.

Keep in mind BMW has a history of penny pinching and then eating shit. They said some strange marketing unconvincing story when they went to house brand calipers on the S1000RR bikes from Brembo monoblocs in the previous generation. They finally gave in and are doing recalls and installing brembo Stylemas like they should have on a flagship bike making 210 hp.

Strange company with such inconsistent decision making. A great car every now and then, but not a consistent line of great cars or design and engineering philosophy.

100% cost cutting move associated with switching to an electronic emergency brake.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

The biggest thing that stuck out like a sore thumb is this car had the optional carbon brakes and still only had a two piston rear caliper. Why would a car company make a car several hundred pounds heavier and then downsize the rear brakes (my F80 rear CCB calipers are 4 piston)?????? I'd love to hear the fanbois defend this move.
.

There's a constant theme most of the M3 haters follow, which is not say anything when others do it and then get upset if BMW does the same thing.

You know, it has been quite a few years since the C63 and even the AMG GT-R -and successive more track-oriented options, like the GT-R Pro- have used sliding rear calipers on their ceramic brakes.
I don't like it, but I must have missed all the outrage that the starting-at-200k GT-R Pro uses the same rear brake setup. I mean, it's an outrage that BMW chose this option in their car that starts at 70k, so people must be seeing psychiatrists to deal with their feelings about a 200k extremely track oriented car having the same shit rear setup. The C63 is a direct competitor and I have never seen any comments related to its crappy rear brake situation, or how their 'CCB' option only has CCBs up front!

The same comment can be made for many of the criticisms raised about the new generation.

Weight? Yeah, weight sucks. The C63 has weighed 4k lb for quite a while and in the 'vs C63' threads I haven't seen all these low weight fans stating that they would never consider the C63 due to its weight. Same thing for the RS4/5, which weigh around 4k.
Besides, most of the people crying about weight either don't track or do track and are slow as hell.

ZF8 vs DCT? Boohoo. C63 has used a -much shittier- auto for many years. The Alfa Quattroformaggio has been hailed as the second coming of Christ for driving enthusiasts and uses... drum roll... the ZF!! But holy shit, if BMW even thinks of using the same transmission, all hell breaks loose! People can notice it just leaving their driveway!

I tell you, if BMW were putting a 4 cylinder engine into the M2, planet Earth might just stop spinning from all the vitriol and hatred on the forums. Meanwhile, Porsche moved the 718 to 4 cylinder and people just took it in the rear as usual and smiled while forking out 90k.



You also made a comment about 'lack of consistency from BMW'. There is one consistency in BMW making the M3s, which is that they provide an affordable way to crush your enemies and see them flee before you at the track while also working as daily drivers. This has been consistent for a very long time. Nothing has changed with the G8X.

[USSEnterprise]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

There's a constant theme most of the M3 haters follow, which is not say anything when others do it and then get upset if BMW does the same thing.

You know, it has been quite a few years since the C63 and even the AMG GT-R -and successive more track-oriented options, like the GT-R Pro- have used sliding rear calipers on their ceramic brakes.
I don't like it, but I must have missed all the outrage that the starting-at-200k GT-R Pro uses the same rear brake setup. I mean, it's an outrage that BMW chose this option in their car that starts at 70k, so people must be seeing psychiatrists to deal with their feelings about a 200k extremely track oriented car having the same shit rear setup. The C63 is a direct competitor and I have never seen any comments related to its crappy rear brake situation, or how their 'CCB' option only has CCBs up front!

The same comment can be made for many of the criticisms raised about the new generation.

Weight? Yeah, weight sucks. The C63 has weighed 4k lb for quite a while and in the 'vs C63' threads I haven't seen all these low weight fans stating that they would never consider the C63 due to its weight. Same thing for the RS4/5, which weigh around 4k.
Besides, most of the people crying about weight either don't track or do track and are slow as hell.

ZF8 vs DCT? Boohoo. C63 has used a -much shittier- auto for many years. The Alfa Quattroformaggio has been hailed as the second coming of Christ for driving enthusiasts and uses... drum roll... the ZF!! But holy shit, if BMW even thinks of using the same transmission, all hell breaks loose! People can notice it just leaving their driveway!

I tell you, if BMW were putting a 4 cylinder engine into the M2, planet Earth might just stop spinning from all the vitriol and hatred on the forums. Meanwhile, Porsche moved the 718 to 4 cylinder and people just took it in the rear as usual and smiled while forking out 90k.



You also made a comment about 'lack of consistency from BMW'. There is one consistency in BMW making the M3s, which is that they provide an affordable way to crush your enemies and see them flee before you at the track while also working as daily drivers. This has been consistent for a very long time. Nothing has changed with the G8X.

SYT, your entire argument seems to be based on "others did this and BMW is now following suit so why the outcry"

It's flawed. Excusing a shitty product decision because competitors build shitty products is a failing strategy if true auto enthusiasts are your halo target segment. People (like me) get their panties in a twist when BMW pinches pennies or adds weight because those are the people who can tell the difference and precisely the core following that built the BMW M brand.

AMG or Audi RS or whatever equivalent competitor NEVER EVER positions their car as track capable out of the box. They don't claim to be the ultimate driver's machine. Trust me, I have owned 3 different AMGs. One of the biggest reasons to buy BMW M over competitors is precisely that I can track it with minimal overhead/build. If you take that away from BMW and now you just evaluate a street car, shit, I'd take an AMG every day of the week over an M car. Have you owned an AMG? They are way better at the luxury muscle cruiser than any competitor with some GREAT motors. And with the new ugly ass buck teeth and general clumsiness of G80 design, Audis look like downright elegant in comparison and Quattro is way better in the north east than xdrive.

If BMW is making the G80 platform more of a street car to compete with less track worthy competitors, that's OK. After seeing the G82 up close and sitting in one, I definitely won't be sticking around when I get rid of the F80 because there are much nicer street cars I can drive for the money than bloated buck teeth. I can name a half dozen better street cars without blinking an eyelid and probably half dozen more if I sit down and give it some thought.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

SYT, your entire argument seems to be based on "others did this and BMW is now following suit so why the outcry"

It's flawed. Excusing a shitty product decision because competitors build shitty products is a failing strategy if true auto enthusiasts are your halo target segment. People (like me) get their panties in a twist when BMW pinches pennies or adds weight because those are the people who can tell the difference and precisely the core following that built the BMW M brand.

AMG or Audi RS or whatever equivalent competitor NEVER EVER positions their car as track capable out of the box. They don't claim to be the ultimate driver's machine. Trust me, I have owned 3 different AMGs. One of the biggest reasons to buy BMW M over competitors is precisely that I can track it with minimal overhead/build. If you take that away from BMW and now you just evaluate a street car, shit, I'd take an AMG every day of the week over an M car. Have you owned an AMG? They are way better at the luxury muscle cruiser than any competitor with some GREAT motors. And with the new ugly ass buck teeth and general clumsiness of G80 design, Audis look like downright elegant in comparison and Quattro is way better in the north east than xdrive.

If BMW is making the G80 platform more of a street car to compete with less track worthy competitors, that's OK. After seeing the G82 up close and sitting in one, I definitely won't be sticking around when I get rid of the F80 because there are much nicer street cars I can drive for the money than bloated buck teeth. I can name a half dozen better street cars without blinking an eyelid and probably half dozen more if I sit down and give it some thought.

Most of the people complaining about weight can most definitely not tell the difference.

In all aspects I think I was clear that I don't like the weight, the small brake or the ZF, but none of them are the end of the world.
In the moment that heavily tracked 991 GT3 RS cars upgrade brakes to the same AP kits that M3s upgrade to, whatever BMW would include in the stock car is pretty much irrelevant. If you track enough where it would be a problem you would not be using the stock setup. If you do not track enough where the G8X brakes are a problem, you wouldn't know the difference.

Be clear that I prefer low weight, DCT and proper brakes

[USSEnterprise]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Most of the people complaining about weight can most definitely not tell the difference.

In all aspects I think I was clear that I don't like the weight, the small brake or the ZF, but none of them are the end of the world.
In the moment that heavily tracked 991 GT3 RS cars upgrade brakes to the same AP kits that M3s upgrade to, whatever BMW would include in the stock car is pretty much irrelevant. If you track enough where it would be a problem you would not be using the stock setup. If you do not track enough where the G8X brakes are a problem, you wouldn't know the difference.

Be clear that I prefer low weight, DCT and proper brakes

By "most of the people" do you mean just people who use the car as a street car, or people that do trackdays/race regularly? If latter, weight is the first thing you will notice when you pay for tires, brakes and BBK upgrades twice as often as lighter alternatives. Weight in a car that sees the track is just impossible to hide or work around. Even intermediate level track drivers will notice weight when it manifests in consumables.

Again, saying that "most people spend $6k on a BBK so shitty stock brakes are fine" is flawed. I track my F80 two or three times a month and my stock CCB brakes are great. Aren't you the guy who is proud that your stock F80 CS gets 2x the usage at HPDE events and holds up great? You are making my point in why people like M cars out of the box.

I am not bashing the G80, I'm really not. I'm saying that if its playing to street car rules which it is, its a sub-par product for $80k+. BMW M does not make great street cars for that price. I'd buy a ton of other street cars (LC500, F-Type R, C63, E63 stripper, RS5...) before I'd buy buck teeth.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

By "most of the people" do you mean just people who use the car as a street car, or people that do trackdays/race regularly? If latter, weight is the first thing you will notice when you pay for tires, brakes and BBK upgrades twice as often as lighter alternatives. Weight in a car that sees the track is just impossible to hide or work around. Even intermediate level track drivers will notice weight when it manifests in consumables.

Again, saying that "most people spend $6k on a BBK so shitty stock brakes are fine" is flawed. I track my F80 two or three times a month and my stock CCB brakes are great. Aren't you the guy who is proud that your stock F80 CS gets 2x the usage at HPDE events and holds up great? You are making my point in why people like M cars out of the box.

I am not bashing the G80, I'm really not. I'm saying that if its playing to street car rules which it is, its a sub-par product for $80k+. BMW M does not make great street cars for that price. I'd buy a ton of other street cars (LC500, F-Type R, C63, E63 stripper, RS5...) before I'd buy buck teeth.

For a 150lb difference you are not paying for twice the brakes, tires or anything else.

M cars are great out of the box and handle track use happily. This has not changed in the G8X. The rear brake caliper may be tiny, but the rotor attached is still large and in the front, the 36mm rotor makes a large difference. I could bet money that the people who were happy with the stock brakes on the F8X will also be happy with the G8X in terms of performance.

My CS is 'stock' engine-wise. Suspension and brakes are not stock at all. I tracked with the stock rear caliper one weekend and the dust boots caught fire.

The M3 Comp starts at 73k. It is not '80k+'. It can clearly get to 80k, and probably 100k if you go crazy on the options, but 73k is where it starts and it will track happily at that price.

You seem to speak a lot about vehicular performance, but then comment strongly on aesthetics. So... even if the M3 were light, and if had 4 piston rear brakes, and retained the DCT... you would still not like it, because you think it's ugly.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

and still only had a two piston rear caliper.

You're sure it didn't have a single piston sliding caliper?

[USSEnterprise]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You're sure it didn't have a single piston sliding caliper?

Good question. It did look like a single piston caliper and as soon as I said it, the owner corrected me and said two piston. In hindsight he could have been wrong.

[USSEnterprise]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

You seem to speak a lot about vehicular performance, but then comment strongly on aesthetics. So... even if the M3 were light, and if had 4 piston rear brakes, and retained the DCT... you would still not like it, because you think it's ugly.

Negative. If M3 was light and had good brakes and the new generation offered improved dynamics/electronics/power, I'd be all over it. The M3 is my track car, not daily. I'd drive an ugly track car as long as it did what it promised and I'll keep my mouth shut. I only make comments about looks because when you add the rest of the trade-offs, its clear BMW is making a street car. And in the street car business, looks become a serious factor in ownership experience and enjoyment. As do a few other factors that BMW comes up short compared to fast MBs and Audis.

For the record, I have never made the ZF a point of criticism. I had that tranny in my F-Type R and thought it was excellent for a street car. I have not driven a car on track with the ZF so I have nothing bad to say about that tranny. I have consistently only hated on the weight gain of the G80 as well as the whole entire planet hating on the looks so pardon me for agreeing with everyone lol The brakes were a total shocker and just solidified my disapproval, that's all.

If there's one thing I want from the G80, it is those carbon buckets. They are phenomenal.

[Suds]

Sounds like BMW is controlling front to rear brake bias.
So adjusting for more front weight by reducing rear brake grip.

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

OK I was at motorsports ranch cresson today (a track here in the Dallas area) and ran into a G82 Competition that was being tracked. My first time seeing one of these in the flesh. Had a long conversation with the owner and walked around and sat in the car. The new carbon buckets are freaking awesome. Styling is as ugly as the pictures, car does not somehow look better in person.

The biggest thing that stuck out like a sore thumb is this car had the optional carbon brakes and still only had a two piston rear caliper. Why would a car company make a car several hundred pounds heavier and then downsize the rear brakes (my F80 rear CCB calipers are 4 piston)?????? I'd love to hear the fanbois defend this move.

Keep in mind BMW has a history of penny pinching and then eating shit. They said some strange marketing unconvincing story when they went to house brand calipers on the S1000RR bikes from Brembo monoblocs in the previous generation. They finally gave in and are doing recalls and installing brembo Stylemas like they should have on a flagship bike making 210 hp.

Strange company with such inconsistent decision making. A great car every now and then, but not a consistent line of great cars or design and engineering philosophy.

[Pic18]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

Another unfavorable review for the G80 (Matt Farrah and Chris Harris being the others). The believers will say “oh so and so doesn’t know what he’s talking about so I don’t care what they have to say” but you can’t use that same argument to discount every journalist out there. Other than straight line speed, not seeing a lot of good reviews, but plenty of negatives about looks and weight and gearbox.

What I think is criminal is to fit a single piston rear caliper in a 4000 lb car.

As far as reviews, Matt generally finds issues with cars (that is kinda his shtick), but I wouldn't say Chris' review was unfavorable. He doesn't like the looks but says "how does it drive, very very impressively" and it is "a great car". Maybe he likes the F80 more, but still wouldn't that doesn't make the G80/G82 a bad car.

[USSEnterprise]

In other news, the Lotus Emira was teased today. Full reveal in July. 4 cylinder DCT power train and 6 cylinder manual power train expected. Since it replaces the Elise/Exige and Evora all in one, its going to have a WIDE price range - $75k through $130k. The last Evora makes around 450 hp and weighs 3150-3200 lbs, so a much better power to weight expected in the top tier V6 version of the new Emira.

[Suds]

No, I am staying F8x. I bought an F87 with a half cage, AP Racing brakes, Nitron shocks and a bunch of other mods.

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

In other news, the Lotus Emira was teased today. Full reveal in July. 4 cylinder DCT power train and 6 cylinder manual power train expected. Since it replaces the Elise/Exige and Evora all in one, its going to have a WIDE price range - $75k through $130k. The last Evora makes around 450 hp and weighs 3150-3200 lbs, so a much better power to weight expected in the top tier V6 version of the new Emira.

[stevehifi]

Considering how terrible the f8x was setup out of the box (power delivery, suspension, brakes, steering feedback, tire sizes) I'm not sure why there's so much complaining about the g80. It seems to me that they addressed most of the problems:

-shifted the power band for better traction
-the ride is more composed and compliant
-6 piston caliper up front with real cooling ducts
-wider track up front for better steering input
-bigger tires up front to improve front end grip

The real cherry on top is that the new motor looks like it's making some serious power.

All this for still 70-80k like the last gen pricing.

The rear single piston caliper is really not a problem, as long as rotor size and pad size is adequate it will do the same job as a two piston caliper.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

Considering how terrible the f8x was setup out of the box (power delivery, suspension, brakes, steering feedback, tire sizes) I'm not sure why there's so much complaining about the g80. It seems to me that they addressed most of the problems:

-shifted the power band for better traction
-the ride is more composed and compliant
-6 piston caliper up front with real cooling ducts
-wider track up front for better steering input
-bigger tires up front to improve front end grip

The real cherry on top is that the new motor looks like it's making some serious power.

All this for still 70-80k like the last gen pricing.

The rear single piston caliper is really not a problem, as long as rotor size and pad size is adequate it will do the same job as a two piston caliper.

"Composed and compliant" isn't what people are looking for on the track forum.

Agreed that they did improve the front brakes and the rear brake is probably going to be more than enough because the stock suspension will have crazy low spring rates and overwork the fronts.

Also agreed that the engine is better and so is the interior.

Ugliness aside, the weight is the biggest issue and not enough power added to compensate for it. The AWD version will probably sit way too high and the base MSRP is attractive but most of these will be 6 figure cars with a few options so I don't think it's comparable.

Does anyone know if the front suspension will be adjustable from the factory?

[stevehifi]

Originally Posted by NYG

"Composed and compliant" isn't what people are looking for on the track forum.

Agreed that they did improve the front brakes and the rear brake is probably going to be more than enough because the stock suspension will have crazy low spring rates and overwork the fronts.

Also agreed that the engine is better and so is the interior.

Ugliness aside, the weight is the biggest issue and not enough power added to compensate for it. The AWD version will probably sit way too high and the base MSRP is attractive but most of these will be 6 figure cars with a few options so I don't think it's comparable.

Does anyone know if the front suspension will be adjustable from the factory?

when I say composed and compliant, that means in all kinds of scenarios (street driving, canyons, track).

Look at any of the current reviews on the track you will see the car is very composed and handles steady state transitions very well (references to awd were made) and lacks any understeer. The reviewer isn't fighting the car at the limit and the car is not pushing into corners.

None of the comments you made are any different then when the F8x came out and the e9x was the common reference point for all enthusiasts. Many people were skeptical of the extra weight, the extra cost, the sacrilege of going to a terrible sounding turbo i6. Obviously a couple years into it.. everyone ended up being sold of the potential of the f8x platform.

Every evolution has its pros and cons, but honestly go drive one first before you bash it - I bet you will change your mind.

[RSXDC5]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

when I say composed and compliant, that means in all kinds of scenarios (street driving, canyons, track).

Look at any of the current reviews on the track you will see the car is very composed and handles steady state transitions very well (references to awd were made) and lacks any understeer. The reviewer isn't fighting the car at the limit and the car is not pushing into corners.

None of the comments you made are any different then when the F8x came out and the e9x was the common reference point for all enthusiasts. Many people were skeptical of the extra weight, the extra cost, the sacrilege of going to a terrible sounding turbo i6. Obviously a couple years into it.. everyone ended up being sold of the potential of the f8x platform.

Every evolution has its pros and cons, but honestly go drive one first before you bash it - I bet you will change your mind.

Even with the above potentially in play... I still can't get past the face/lines of the car. Truly, I wouldn't be proud to drive it.

A simple test for me is the "walking away from car look back test"... F80 = smiles/grins; G80 = cringe

But why you ask?

I have to accept the face/lines of the car in the same way that we selected a trackable performance car of a certain caliber. The highly disjointed styling cues/lines mentally do not allow me to enjoy the car. Sounds stupid, but very true, personally.

As a second thought, the new G generation is getting very big...length/width/weight.

The whole understeer/oversteer argument is moot to me because I assume the driver will adjust that out via tire-sizes/alignment/coilovers.

For what it's worth, I really wanted to like the current M3/M4 gen.