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      01-16-2014, 10:06 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by ybbiz34
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Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
Do me a favor turn off the traction control and drive your AMG around the track do the same with the M3 and then we will talk until then it's a moot point.
If you pay my expenses I'll drive down to FL and we can both turn in some lap times in our respective cars and see what happens. Sounds like fun to me, regardless of what happens.
Ha sure, anyway it's all in good fun this argument. Like comparing blue to green. Doesn't matter what ever you enjoy! I drive these cars in congested traffic 90% of the time!
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      01-16-2014, 10:09 PM   #266
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Ha sure, anyway it's all in good fun this argument. Like comparing blue to green. Doesn't matter what ever you enjoy! I drive these cars in congested traffic 90% of the time!
Exactly! That's the spirit. I've been trying to say that the whole time haha. I love M cars just as much as I appreciate AMG cars. They each bring something a little different to the table but they are each equally as rewarding to drive - just in different ways.
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      01-16-2014, 10:30 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by ybbiz34
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Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
Ha sure, anyway it's all in good fun this argument. Like comparing blue to green. Doesn't matter what ever you enjoy! I drive these cars in congested traffic 90% of the time!
Exactly! That's the spirit. I've been trying to say that the whole time haha. I love M cars just as much as I appreciate AMG cars. They each bring something a little different to the table but they are each equally as rewarding to drive - just in different ways.
But seriously...........M/// FTW,lol.
No Mercedes is catching up, remember the e55 AMG vs e39 was like night and day the AMG was just a beast with a engine. Good for drag racing while the E39 was a all around package. AMG steering and handling has improved majorly while learning to keep the big massive engines they are famous for. I'm guessing Bmw is trying to get a curve on future emission standard with the new M3/M4. I I'm sure they figure if Porsche can build such amazing cars all these years with a 6er then they can too. Plus it will be nice to get over 20mpg for a change! This X5m is killing me having to stop at the gas station every day can't wait till the lease is up! Had a X1 over the weekend as a dealer loaner and it was nice not to have to get gas for 4 days. Hoping M3 will be more like this with the performance of the e9x
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      01-16-2014, 10:38 PM   #268
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But seriously...........M/// FTW,lol.
No Mercedes is catching up, remember the e55 AMG vs e39 was like night and day the AMG was just a beast with a engine. Good for drag racing while the E39 was a all around package. AMG steering and handling has improved majorly while learning to keep the big massive engines they are famous for. I'm guessing Bmw is trying to get a curve on future emission standard with the new M3/M4. I I'm sure they figure if Porsche can build such amazing cars all these years with a 6er then they can too. Plus it will be nice to get over 20mpg for a change! This X5m is killing me having to stop at the gas station every day can't wait till the lease is up! Had a X1 over the weekend as a dealer loaner and it was nice not to have to get gas for 4 days. Hoping M3 will be more like this with the performance of the e9x
I agree. Starting with the LCI C63 in 2012, which received an entirely revamped suspension (along with some other notable tweaks), AMG as a brand began focusing more on well-rounded cars (while still making it a priority for each AMG model to have more horsepower and torque than its M counterpart).

I think this strategy has pushed BMW M to become even more aggressive in its approach. The stiffer the competition, the better for us, the consumers.

It sounds like you have quite an impressive stable my friend.
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      02-05-2014, 03:20 PM   #269
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AMGs always have a lot of power but apply it poorly to the road
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      02-05-2014, 03:45 PM   #270
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Plus AMGs always have a lot of power but apply it poorly to the road

Why do people keep saying this when it is more than likely the new C63 AMG will have 4wd? In which case it will be the M3/4 that applies the power poorly to the road in comparison.
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      02-05-2014, 03:46 PM   #271
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Why do people keep saying this when it is more than likely the new C63 AMG will have 4wd? In which case it will be the M3/4 that applies the power poorly to the road in comparison.
Well that will all depend on HOW that AWD is implemented. AWD in and of itself doesn't automatically dictate that the handling will be superb.
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      02-05-2014, 04:22 PM   #272
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Why do people keep saying this when it is more than likely the new C63 AMG will have 4wd? In which case it will be the M3/4 that applies the power poorly to the road in comparison.
AMG boss says new C AMG will be RWD


"In this segment, its still important to have a rear-wheel drive car. There will be enough improvements in the new C-Class that there will be no need for 4Matic."

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/pres...T0yMCZObmU9MjA
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      02-06-2014, 12:47 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by elevenfive View Post
AMG boss says new C AMG will be RWD


"In this segment, its still important to have a rear-wheel drive car. There will be enough improvements in the new C-Class that there will be no need for 4Matic."

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/pres...T0yMCZObmU9MjA


Thank you. I must say up until very very recently AMG was hinting that it would have AWD.
I like well set up AWD systems and it was one of the reasons I was thinking of holding out for the C63.

If there is no AWD, then I'll probably get on and order the M3.

Thanks for the heads up
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      02-06-2014, 12:50 AM   #274
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Well that will all depend on HOW that AWD is implemented. AWD in and of itself doesn't automatically dictate that the handling will be superb.

Sure, but I didn't say AWD gives superb handling, just look at most AWD Audis, they handle awfully.

However in terms of purely 'putting the power down' AWD systems almost always do this better.

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      02-06-2014, 02:06 AM   #275
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Well that will all depend on HOW that AWD is implemented. AWD in and of itself doesn't automatically dictate that the handling will be superb.
If they did go AWD with the C63 it seems like a fair guess it will be fixed torque split with a rear bias, like the E63 (which BTW, is pretty awesome. it will oversteer like the old RWD version and launches of the line with serious authority).

Back to the poll, I will be secretly annoyed if the C63 comes with big power, and traps significantly higher than the F80. My daily drive in San Diego is at odd hours with minimal traffic so I can use all of the power on hand
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      02-06-2014, 05:27 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Well that will all depend on HOW that AWD is implemented. AWD in and of itself doesn't automatically dictate that the handling will be superb.
If they did go AWD with the C63 it seems like a fair guess it will be fixed torque split with a rear bias, like the E63 (which BTW, is pretty awesome. it will oversteer like the old RWD version and launches of the line with serious authority).

Back to the poll, I will be secretly annoyed if the C63 comes with big power, and traps significantly higher than the F80. My daily drive in San Diego is at odd hours with minimal traffic so I can use all of the power on hand
Ybbiz and I have talked about this a bit in the past. I'd seriously consider a Benz if they made 6MT's. The fact that they don't is disappointing because I really like some of the Merc cars.
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      02-06-2014, 01:48 PM   #277
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So if Autoweek is to be believed we'll see the car this October in Paris:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2014...NEWS/140209983

They are also claiming that there will indeed be four variants: sedan, estate, coupe, cabriolet. I believe that would be a segment first, with Audi, BMW, and Mercedes each having three out of the four before, but never all four.
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      02-06-2014, 02:40 PM   #278
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I think AWD and a proper DCT would make the new AMG a lot more interesting. On paper it could be an equal to the GT-R in power to weight and track / drag strip performance...With proper setup it should be able to pulverize the competitions performance in true GT-R style. I'm sure Munich is very happy to hear that it will remain RWD and likely get an inferior gearbox.
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      02-06-2014, 02:42 PM   #279
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So if Autoweek is to believed we'll see the car this October in Paris:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2014...NEWS/140209983

They are also claiming that there will indeed be four variants: sedan, estate, coupe, cabriolet. I believe that would be a segment first, with Audi, BMW, and Mercedes each having three out of the four before, but never all four.
Yep that's correct.

I posted the article, along with a few interesting highlights, here: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=942830

"Further details remain scarce, but AMG insiders suggest the M117 may support an output between 450 and 600 hp. Since the outgoing C63 AMG's naturally aspirated 6.2-liter V8 is already good for 451 hp, its replacement is expected to up the ante to somewhere in the region of 480 hp. Forced induction, present in the C-class based performance sedan for the very first time, should also help extend its torque reserves beyond the 443 lb-ft of its predecessor."

Other interesting highlights:

"The adoption of a new aluminum-intensive platform structure and an predominately aluminum body shell ensures the increase in size will not have a big effect on curb weight, with Mercedes-Benz claiming savings in the region of 110 pounds, compared to the steel-bodied third-generation model."

"The new C63 AMG eschews the air suspension that is being made available as an option on various new C-class models for the first time, receiving a heavily reworked version of its more conventional steel-sprung arrangement with unique track widths, firmer springs and dampers, altered elastokinematics and a lowered ride height."

"We got a preview of the look on standard versions of the C-class fitted with the optional AMG optic package. But the C63 AMG will go further, featuring a heavily structured front fascia with sizeable air ducts to provide more efficient engine bay cooling, AMG's latest blade grille treatment, reworked hood, heavily flared front fenders, wider sills and a deeper rear bumper that houses trapezoidal chromed tailpipes."
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      02-06-2014, 02:47 PM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
I think AWD and a proper DCT would make the new AMG a lot more interesting. On paper it could be an equal to the GT-R in power to weight and track / drag strip performance...With proper setup it should be able to pulverize the competitions performance in true GT-R style. I'm sure Munich is very happy to hear that it will remain RWD and likely get an inferior gearbox.
Well, the MCT isn't as quick as the DCT but I wouldn't say it's a bad transmission either.

The current W204 C63 is about 4-5 seconds faster around the 'ring than the E90 M3 despite weighing more and utilizing an "inferior" transmission.

With the W205 having more power, a tweaked MCT (really hoping for a DCT), and a weight savings of at least 110 lbs, I'd guess that the car is going to be substantially quicker than the W204 (which routinely clocked 3.7 second 0-60 times in all of the magazine tests/comparisons).

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...g-coupe-page-2

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2sTa7FnrR

I'm glad the car is staying RWD simply because I think that, for the type of car that it is, RWD suits it better.
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      02-06-2014, 02:59 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Well, the MCT isn't as quick as the DCT but I wouldn't say it's a bad transmission either.

The current W204 C63 is about 4-5 seconds faster around the 'ring than the E90 M3 despite weighing more and utilizing an "inferior" transmission.

With the W205 having more power, a tweaked MCT (really hoping for a DCT), and a weight savings of at least 110 lbs, I'd guess that the car is going to be substantially quicker than the W204 (which routinely clocked 3.7 second 0-60 times in all of the magazine tests/comparisons).

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...g-coupe-page-2

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2sTa7FnrR

I'm glad the car is staying RWD simply because I think that, for the type of car that it is, RWD suits it better.
It just surprises me when they have the HW needed that they don't take full advantage to elevate the car to a whole other level. If it could match or beat the GT-R the auto world would go bananas and it would absolutely finally come out of the M3's long shadow. I'm sure there are quite a crowd that would like the refinement of a Benz with the performance of a GT-R.
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      02-06-2014, 03:03 PM   #282
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Yep that's correct.
Yeah, assuming they have reliable info.

It all seems believable to me, but I did notice they got the engine code wrong - M117 vs. M177. Well, unless every other source has it wrong.
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      02-06-2014, 03:10 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
It just surprises me when they have the HW needed that they don't take full advantage to elevate the car to a whole other level. If it could match or beat the GT-R the auto world would go bananas and it would absolutely finally come out of the M3's long shadow. I'm sure there are quite a crowd that would like the refinement of a Benz with the performance of a GT-R.
I somewhat agree with you. I feel like Mercedes has all of the elements to make this a world beater but is holding back.

Maybe a future Black Series will take things to 11 this time. Give it the M178 with 550-600hp and the DCT, sort of what we expect to go into the C190. I guess the lack of AWD would sort of compromise things - unless they were to add that too - but I think this could really upset the status quo if they went for it and put it on the street for GTR-ish cash.
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      02-06-2014, 03:30 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
It just surprises me when they have the HW needed that they don't take full advantage to elevate the car to a whole other level. If it could match or beat the GT-R the auto world would go bananas and it would absolutely finally come out of the M3's long shadow. I'm sure there are quite a crowd that would like the refinement of a Benz with the performance of a GT-R.
There are some that would argue that the W204 was that car (i.e., the car that finally challenged the M3). When the E9X M3 and the C63 first debuted in '07-'08, the M3 was still quite clearly the sharper car but finally, the AMG competitor was at least worthy of being included in the same conversation.

However, the gap between the two narrowed quite a bit further when the LCI W204 C63 debuted in 2012 (with its almost entirely new, heavily revised suspension; MCT in lieu of 7-speed auto, etc.). For example, in one of those comparison tests I posted above, the LCI C63 lost out to the M3 by a single point.

The knocks on the LCI W204 were that it was still a bit too heavy and that the MCT just wasn't as polished as the DCT (particularly with respect to upshifts in M mode). These are criticisms/gripes I tend to agree with, having driven both many times (including back to back on several occasions).

But it has more power, more torque, better steering feel, better brake hardware, and can rip off 11.9 second 1/4 times bone stock.

And I'm not even mentioning the C63 Black Series (which was based off of the LCI C63 coupe), which was a pretty serious engineering exercise.

Ultimately I agree with what you're saying. It's funny that AMG can make the DCT work for the SLS and the CLA45 (the entrant below the C63) but not the C63.

Who knows. Maybe we'll be surprised in September, if that truly is the reveal date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Yeah, assuming they have reliable info.

It all seems believable to me, but I did notice they got the engine code wrong - M117 vs. M177. Well, unless every other source has it wrong.
Of course. And I noticed that as well. Likely a typo.

The drivetrain information was accurate.

"There will be no four-wheel drive on the C63 AMG,” AMG boss Tobias Moers told Autocar at the recent Detroit auto show. “You should never say never, but for the foreseeable future, we will not offer it on the C63 AMG, either as standard or as an option."
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      02-06-2014, 04:19 PM   #285
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The drivetrain information was accurate.
Agree.

I hope the reveal at Paris is correct too. I am sort of gravitating toward a sedan for my next car now (but then I said that when I was in the E46 M3 and eyeing the E9x M3 too ), so this is probably the only car on the near horizon other than the ATS-V that could keep me out of an F80. It will be nice to have details on both in the next few months.
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      02-06-2014, 04:48 PM   #286
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They are really good looking, but no manual and heavy as sin. The drive is not like an M at all. I contemplated it but can't imagine pulling the trigger unless it performs like or better than an M. If you want a Black edition, you are spending bigggggg monney
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