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View Poll Results: Will Donald Trump be Impeached or will this blowback on Biden
Orange Trump bad. Trump gone. 83 32.30%
Trump Trump-umphant. 88 34.24%
Inclusive 18 7.00%
Biden C4'd to oblivion. 74 28.79%
Biden grows in strength and gets shot in the arm for nomination. 10 3.89%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 257. You may not vote on this poll

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      11-20-2019, 09:32 AM   #2839
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Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
The Dems are trying to build public support, through this show trial, for impeachment in the House. So far, it seems they are pleasing their base and may be some “undecideds”, but hardening the Trump supporters.

So assume they succeed at least sufficiently to impeach in the House. I’m curious what you all think about next steps.

If the perceptions remain as they were this morning, I’d guess the Senate does not remove from office. However, if the case is stronger, the Senate might remove Trump. What is McConnell thinking (politically, and lets acknowledge that he is a brilliant Senate tactician)?

I can see the Dems appealing to their base and swing voters with “we impeached and took the high, righteous, moral ground to root out R evils...” and the R’s appealing to their base with “we fought the baseless misuse and abuse of the constitution by the Ds in their many misguided and illegal efforts to remove a duly elected president...”. So there’s your election narrative as of this morning.

What are the alternative scenarios? How might this play out?
That about sums it all up. Trump wont be removed, Dems will cry foul play, and we will move on to the next thing they come up with that will "Get Trump."

The biggest issue that I have, and many that I know have, is this term has just been one fight after another and nothing really happens in terms of important legislature and policies. Both sides spend all their time trying to smear the other, and forget to actually do anything.

Just add it to the growing list of BS congressional investigations that take up a majority of their time but dont actually have any affect on the typical American.

Maybe there can be a giant sinkhole that sucks up everyone in the government and we can start new.
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      11-20-2019, 09:42 AM   #2840
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Holy shit Nunes, I know you are grasping at straws, but to actually compare Trump to George Washington!

Not to mention comparing how treaties were made in 1794 for a new country with a fledgling State Department to how it is done now to cover for using Giuliani.

You guys are right, this has gotten beyond ridiculous.
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      11-20-2019, 09:51 AM   #2841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Holy shit Nunes, I know you are grasping at straws, but to actually compare Trump to George Washington!

Not to mention comparing how treaties were made in 1794 for a new country with a fledgling State Department to how it is done now to cover for using Giuliani.

You guys are right, this has gotten beyond ridiculous.
I was surprised he didn't include GW on his subpeona list.

Just about everything Nunes accused the dems of HE (NUNES) is actually guilty of, as is Trump.
Neither seems to have a shred of decency.
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      11-20-2019, 09:57 AM   #2842
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Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
The Dems are trying to build public support, through this show trial, for impeachment in the House. So far, it seems they are pleasing their base and may be some "undecideds", but hardening the Trump supporters.

So assume they succeed at least sufficiently to impeach in the House. I'm curious what you all think about next steps.

If the perceptions remain as they were this morning, I'd guess the Senate does not remove from office. However, if the case is stronger, the Senate might remove Trump. What is McConnell thinking (politically, and lets acknowledge that he is a brilliant Senate tactician)?

I can see the Dems appealing to their base and swing voters with "we impeached and took the high, righteous, moral ground to root out R evils..." and the R's appealing to their base with "we fought the baseless misuse and abuse of the constitution by the Ds in their many misguided and illegal efforts to remove a duly elected president...". So there's your election narrative as of this morning.

What are the alternative scenarios? How might this play out?
An amusing scenario would be if at the last minute a bunch of GOP senators opted not to show up and Trump was summarily convicted by the Progressive heavy Senate.
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      11-20-2019, 10:32 AM   #2843
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      11-20-2019, 11:06 AM   #2844
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Sondland spilling the beans...
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      11-20-2019, 11:11 AM   #2845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
He flatly denied this in the testimony as well as shot down any negative reputation with a quote from Hill. Morrison, if you heard him answer Castor's question, completely supports the accuracy of the transcript. What hoax did he debunk?

For argument's sake let's say he leaked to his brother (which I can't find any info on by the way, can you link me?) or the press. Would that invalidate his first hand account of the phone call? Does it make it untrue? No. It just makes him a big mouth. Not a liar. Perhaps if he was the ONLY witness to testify we MIGHT have to dismiss the whole shebang, HOWEVER.... he is NOT the only witness. He is one of M A N Y. Corroboration is a BITCH Trump can't move on.
I just watched the testimony. Watch it for yourself. This just unraveled unless one has partisan blinders on. Lol.

I'm done here. I will wait for all of the crow to be eaten just as in the Russian Hoax and the Obstruction of Justice Hoax.

This is pathetic.
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      11-20-2019, 11:41 AM   #2846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
Why would an American be asked to be the Ukraine Defense Minister?

Answer: vindman is a Ukrainian. This coup attempt doesnt make him a Patriot, He's not loyal to America.

The Dems have been at it since the day Trump got elected!
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Casca (later):
"he was offered it again, but to my thinking he was loath to lay his fingers off it."
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      11-20-2019, 11:49 AM   #2847
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Sondland says, again, that he did not hear directly from President Trump that military aid would be withheld until a public statement was made by Ukraine about investigations into Burisma and the 2016 election.

"President Trump never told me directly that the aid was tied to that statement," Sondland says, adding that Trump only said he wants "no quid pro quo," and wanted Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to "do the right thing."
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      11-20-2019, 11:51 AM   #2848
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Did you see anything? - No
Did you hear anything? - No
Where you there? - No
Did you speak to anyone on the call? - No

"Thank you for being an American hero" - Adam Schiff
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      11-20-2019, 11:58 AM   #2849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
Did you see anything? - No
Did you hear anything? - No
Where you there? - No
Did you speak to anyone on the call? - No

"Thank you for being an American hero" - Adam Schiff
Are you some type of bot? You already copy-pasted this one yesterday.
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      11-20-2019, 12:02 PM   #2850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
Sondland says, again, that he did not hear directly from President Trump that military aid would be withheld until a public statement was made by Ukraine about investigations into Burisma and the 2016 election.

"President Trump never told me directly that the aid was tied to that statement," Sondland says, adding that Trump only said he wants "no quid pro quo," and wanted Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to "do the right thing."
You ever see those movies where the mob boss says "take care of that guy" to his fixer? They don't mean "order him a spa day."
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      11-20-2019, 12:03 PM   #2851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
Sondland says, again, that he did not hear directly from President Trump that military aid would be withheld until a public statement was made by Ukraine about investigations into Burisma and the 2016 election.

"President Trump never told me directly that the aid was tied to that statement," Sondland says, adding that Trump only said he wants "no quid pro quo," and wanted Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to "do the right thing."
So, you think Pompeo and Giuliani were "rogue" actors?

What did either of them stand to gain from Ukraine announcing an investigation into Burisma, CrowdStrike or the Bidens?

Further, Trump's "no quid pro quo" statement came after the news of the whistleblower complaint was already public, so......
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      11-20-2019, 12:07 PM   #2852
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What this is all exposing to me, is just how RAMPANT un-professional behavior seems to be for political gain.

It seems I am not patriotic enough to venture into the swamp any deeper than my current toe-dipping, and I'm "appointed" to one position. The second, where there actually was a vote, occurred so long ago because we can't get our shareholders to show up and vote. I've used the "political" rules of that board to step a half-step back and become an alternate, and force someone else to participate, even though I am at nearly every meeting offering my take on any subject.
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      11-20-2019, 12:13 PM   #2853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Are you some type of bot? You already copy-pasted this one yesterday.
That's pretty much what each witness said.
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      11-20-2019, 12:14 PM   #2854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
I've commented on that interview many, many times. Hunter taking that position was unarguably "bad optics" for Joe. Hunter was OBVIOUSLY cashing in on his last name at Burisma.

None of that is Joe committing crimes against the US, as you claimed. None. Of. It.

It's not really nepotism, BTW. Burisma isn't a "friend or relative" of Hunter...




Nonsense. Burisma is the "poster child" in the US because of all the attention they got when they hired Hunter. There is no doubt there was/is tons of corruption in Ukraine. The fact that the President has singled out Burisma and "the Bidens" over and over again leaves no doubt as to his motivation and it wasn't general corruption in Ukraine - otherwise he would have asked for that. He asked for public announcements about investigations into CrowdStrike and Burisma/"the Bidens", instead.





Correct. It makes Vindman's actions much less out of the ordinary, though.



You only addressed part of my statement: "Both men when directly to the NSC Counsel's office, not to their immediate supervisors."

That was not meant to imply that Vindman didn't talk to other people about it, it was illustrating they both committed the same breach of chain of command.



Cool.
Part of the definition of nepotism according to wiki because I don’t feel like digging deeper on the subject but we both know you get it...
“Nepotism refers to partiality to family whereas cronyism refers to partiality to a partner or friend. Favoritism, the broadest of the terms, refers to partiality based upon being part of a favored group, rather than job performance. Favoritism is a part of any human society and the two branches of favoritism are cronyism and nepotism. Situations of nepotism refer to when a politician’s son gets a similar political position in a country, and situations when relatives of high ranking officers get easy positions in their career. This happens despite the relatives lacking the necessary qualifications.”
It’s almost as if they were specifically talking about Joe and Son.

I’m sure you heard that the oboma admin was looking deep in Ukraine corruption and most specifically Barisma. They were on the radar long before Trump took to White House. Trump picked up where the former admin left off and with the new a president in Ukraine who seemed serious about corruption Trump utilized his zeal to go after the big dog in the corruption there, Barisma. There were other crooked entities mentioned also besides Barisma. The fact that the Bidens nepotism to keep his son in the money there is secondary.

Funny how Schiff and attorney has tried numerous times( at least ten I would guess) to get the witness to ‘admit’ that Trump told him this for that. On the contrary witness affirms many times that he was never told directly by the prez that there was any type of quid pro quo.

Trumps says,” I want nothing, no quid pro quo”
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      11-20-2019, 12:17 PM   #2855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
You ever see those movies where the mob boss says "take care of that guy" to his fixer? They don't mean "order him a spa day."
It's not even that vague in this case. We have the transcript from the call, and we have the testimony (so far) to interpret any ambiguity around the language on the call. It's pretty clear that Trump's intent was "I will do this if you do that for me." Did he use the words "quid pro quo"? No, but you also don't need to use the words "contract" to create a legally-binding contract.

It's also interesting that any impeachment charges would probably now include "bribery", not just "high crimes and misdemeanors" (i.e. abuse of power).
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      11-20-2019, 12:19 PM   #2856
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I just love how the guy that had a real estate info-commercial and who tried to pay off a call girl was concerned about Ukraine corruption.
I bet now Trump’s tutoring Baron on how to get a perfect SAT score
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      11-20-2019, 12:20 PM   #2857
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Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
What this is all exposing to me, is just how RAMPANT un-professional behavior seems to be for political gain.

It seems I am not patriotic enough to venture into the swamp any deeper than my current toe-dipping, and I'm "appointed" to one position. The second, where there actually was a vote, occurred so long ago because we can't get our shareholders to show up and vote. I've used the "political" rules of that board to step a half-step back and become an alternate, and force someone else to participate, even though I am at nearly every meeting offering my take on any subject.
When a politician uses the term "public service," they mean "serving themselves, in public."
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      11-20-2019, 12:25 PM   #2858
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When a politician uses the term "public service," they mean "serving themselves, in public."
I've worked in public service since I graduated hs, but never serviced myself in public.

wait, whut?
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      11-20-2019, 12:30 PM   #2859
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Really strange how interested Tromp seems to be in investigating corruption in Ukraine when the entirety of our own intelligence community concluded that the overwhelming majority of election meddling took place in Russia.

If you're so interested in investigating corruption in Ukraine, why not stand by your assessment, continue to hold the aid, and push harder for the investigations? If it's the right thing to do, keep doing it. It's not like corruption was solved before the funds were released. In reality, it went more like "oh shit, they figured out what we're doing - release the damn funds!!!"
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      11-20-2019, 12:32 PM   #2860
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Hmmm.

"The Vice President never had a conversation with Gordon Sondland about investigating the Bidens, Burisma, or the conditional release of financial aid to Ukraine based upon potential investigations. Ambassador Gordon Sondland was never alone with Vice President Pence on the September 1 trip to Poland. This alleged discussion recalled by Ambassador Sondland never happened"

Hmmm.
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