My final decision - Winter Tires for F80 ZCP

[instarand]

For anybody that could possibly care about my decision process for my winter tires, this thread's for you. For everybody else, im sorry for taking up internet space! :-)

I have a 2018 F80 ZCP, and was in pursuit of winter tires. My initial desire was to keep the 666M wheels - partly because I love the wheels, and partly because i like 20 inch vs 18 or 19 visually.

Of course, BMW recommends a square setup 255/35/19 on 19 inch 641 wheels, at least that was the package my local dealer was offering.

Quick background: this M3 is my extra car. i have two other cars, including an SUV that i can use when bad weather hits. So anytime my M3 sees snow it's because i want it to see snow for fun. therefore, maximum snow and ice traction is the lowest priority for me. i am after cold and dry performance. On the top of my priority is looks.

Here's what I had it narrowed down to:

1. Buy a winter set of 19's (Enkei Raijin 19) with Pirelli Sotto II's in 245/35/19 and 265/35/19.
2. Same wheels, but with Michelin Alpin PA4's in 255/35/19 and 285/35/19.
3. go with the BMW square setup using 255/35/19 all around.

OR

4. Keep 666M wheels, and wrap Michelin Alpin PA4's with 245/35/20 and 275/30/20.
5. Keep 666M wheels, and wrap Pirelli Sotto 3's with 265/30/20 and 295/30/20.
6. Buy a dedicated set of 20's and go with either of the above tire options.


I ended up going with option 5. And here's why.

First and foremost, visually it looks the best for me. I love the 666M wheels and i dont want to remove them for 19's that i dont love. and since snow performance is the least important factor, im not losing anything in the decision to keep the 20's. it also happens to be cheaper since i dont have to buy wheels.

Possible concerns: (1) mounting and dismounting tires twice a year and the potential for causing damage to wheel or tire. To manage this, I will be bringing my car to a local and reputable ferrari/exotic specialist that handles super low profile tires all day long. they quoted me a competitive price to do the tires, and i imagine that of all the places mostly likely to do a good job and be most careful with the best equipment, it would be a place like this. i realize it's still somewhat of a concern, but its low on my worry radar due to the specialist doing the work. and (2) the added cost twice a year to actually do the work. i'm very much not concerned with this, but i acknowledge that it exists. and also (3) not having the flexibility to swap out the wheels on my own time each season. That is certainly a cool perk of having dedicated wheels, but that alone didnt move the needle enough for me to care about that.

Another priority for me is potential traction control interference. i am told, and i know there's a lot of debate about this, that when the rear tires are smaller than factory, they are actually spinning faster... and this is why traction control kicks in because it think the rear is spinning faster than it wants and it attempts to limit the rear. Hence when you go from 285's in the back to a square setup with 255's, the 255's are spinning faster at any given speed vs. 285s. BMW certainly doesnt care, because if anything, it'll make the car a little safer. And frankly, that is probably helpful more than anything if the car is your DD and you commute, or rely on it every day of the year. For me, however, that didnt apply. not to mention i dont like the look visually of square 255's all around. rear looks too skinny for my eyes.

Factory total diameter for front and rear is about 26.3 front and 26.8 rear with some variation depending on manufacturer. with my chosen setup, im at 26.3 front and 27.0 in the rear. so with the rears actually being .2 inches larger overall, they are spinning a little slower, in theory there should be no impact on traction control (traction kicks in when it think there's slippage in the rear because they're moving faster than it should).

going with option # 2 above, the total diameter is actually almost an exact match to factory. which was compelling. coming in right about 26.3 and 26.8. So traction control wise and similarity to factory, this seemed like the best option but i still didnt want to go to 19's for 5 months of the year.

With option # 4 above, the front and rear overall diameter was almost identical to each other. and since the rears wear faster generally, it would only be a matter of time before the fronts were actually larger than the rears in overall diameter. which is not ideal. and could be potential cause of traction control interference.

Option # 6 was cool. But very expensive. The wheels that I want in 20" are just too expensive to justify. But if money was not a factor, I probably would buy a set of high end 20's and wrap these Pirellis on them. But I'm not trying to throw $4000-5000 (or more) on this decision


Anyway, that's my story. much of this information i cite above is from various sources such as local tire shops and the friendly tirerack staff. so my apologies if any of the information above isnt exactly correct. i didnt do any personal scientific research. but i trusted various sources and ended up making my own decision based on the information i had available to me.

Curious to know if any of you are as strange as i am when it comes to making decisions like these!! :-)

drive safe this winter! i'll post pics of my setup soon.

PS: i posted on a few previous threads that i was waiting on Michelin to release Alpin PA4's in 265/30/20 to match the existing 285/30/20... i was hopeful these would be released soon, but after continuous follow up it seemed like they would be available in the US until sometime next year at the earliest. So i gave up on that waiting game.

[ptper]

Originally Posted by instarand

5. Keep 666M wheels, and wrap Pirelli Sotto 3's with 265/30/20 and 295/30/20.

Why aren't you going with 285's in the rears?

[instarand]

Originally Posted by ptper

Why aren't you going with 285's in the rears?

There's no 285's in the rear that match up with anything in the front. I would have gone 285's if there was an option.

Michelin Alpin PA4's have a 285/30/20 in the rear, but the closest front match is that 245/35/20. and i didnt prefer that for reasons above.

[ptper]

Originally Posted by instarand

There's no 285's in the rear that match up with anything in the front. I would have gone 285's if there was an option.

Michelin Alpin PA4's have a 285/30/20 in the rear, but the closest front match is that 245/35/20. and i didnt prefer that for reasons above.

Ok, so you went a size up to get the matching 'W' speed rating. Then, yea, please post pics of the rears...I wanna see how meaty they are. ARe you lowered?

[instarand]

Originally Posted by ptper

Ok, so you went a size up to get the matching 'W' speed rating. Then, yea, please post pics of the rears...I wanna see how meaty they are. ARe you lowered?

I am not lowered. I'll post pics when I can.

[David 12]

Thank you for the detailed information. I am in the exact same situation; I have an SUV and use my M4 as a second vehicle. Plus, I am retired so i am looking for a combination that works well in cold weather. I agree a square setup might be the best for snow but I am not really concerned about that.

At this point, I am leaning toward a 19” or 20” package but will get dedicated wheels. Just overall easier and more convenient. I am not against 19” and #2 seems like a decent choice. I also like #6 if I can find something closer to $3k - $3.5k.

I would like to use Tire Rack and find someone there that is well versed with our cars. Would you mind sharing the contact information of your sales rep.?

Thanks and good luck this winter,~

Dave

Former car: 2014 M5 BSM Comp.

[instarand]

Originally Posted by David 12

Thank you for the detailed information. I am in the exact same situation; I have an SUV and use my M4 as a second vehicle. Plus, I am retired so i am looking for a combination that works well in cold weather. I agree a square setup might be the best for snow but I am not really concerned about that.

At this point, I am leaning toward a 19" or 20" package but will get dedicated wheels. Just overall easier and more convenient. I am not against 19" and #2 seems like a decent choice. I also like #6 if I can find something closer to $3k - $3.5k.

I would like to use Tire Rack and find someone there that is well versed with our cars. Would you mind sharing the contact information of your sales rep.?

Thanks and good luck this winter,~

Dave

Former car: 2014 M5 BSM Comp.

If you're cool with 19" wheels then I agree option 2 is a great choice. It's a fair deal on tirerack and it's so convenient.

Regarding option 6, I didn't do a ton of homework beyond tirerack when it came to wheel shopping. There's an awesome thread here somewhere and everybody posts their aftermarket wheels. You can spend all day scrolling through that thread for ideas and to see what you like visually in a 20 inch wheel. I am sure you can find something in your price range outside of tirerack.

I just think tirerack makes it so brainless. You can order it all, you know it's at least decent price, and they mount and road force balance and ship right to you. If I found reasonably priced wheel from another place, I'd have to figure out the tires too. I'm sure it's not that hard, but once I decided I didn't want to spend the money on 20's I sort of gave up intense shopping. Anyway!

The tirerack person that was most helpful is at extension 4362. I forget his name But extension 4362 is definitely correct. He was a great help!

[Mark'sM3]

I just ordered mine yesterday and still went with 285 in the rear even with the different speed rating. The difference is small and there is very little chance of me even reaching those speeds in the winter.

[ptper]

Originally Posted by Mark'sM3

I just ordered mine yesterday and still went with 285 in the rear even with the different speed rating. The difference is small and there is very little chance of me even reaching those speeds in the winter.

Yea, just got off the phone with Tirerack...at first the guy said match the speed rating because you will notice it when going into the corners (or something like that), then I asked him if it was his car, what would he do, he said match the tires to factory spec, speed rating won't that much of a difference. LOL. I guess it's a little cya since they haven't actually test fit that scenario. In the end, it's preference. I'm leaning towards 285's since I'll be lowering at some point. Good luck to all!

[instarand]

My understanding is that speed rating is determined by rubber compound. So two tires with different speed rating are reacting somewhat differently to the ground. And especially so in harder acceleration or cornering.

It's not like if you have front tires w speed rating of 100 and rears with a rating at 130 that if you don't exceed 100 it's irrelevant. There's a reason they are rated differently.

Anyway, I don't know for sure I'm just piecing together Info from various ppl. I'm sure it's negligible.

Happy winter driving all!!

[instarand]

Here are some pics of my 666 wheels wrapped in pirelli Sottozero 3's - 265/30/20 front and 295/30/20 rear. To my eyes, there's no no visual difference. I guess if you have a trained eye you may be able to see.

[yayaya]

Originally Posted by David 12

Thank you for the detailed information. I am in the exact same situation; I have an SUV and use my M4 as a second vehicle. Plus, I am retired so i am looking for a combination that works well in cold weather. I agree a square setup might be the best for snow but I am not really concerned about that.

At this point, I am leaning toward a 19" or 20" package but will get dedicated wheels. Just overall easier and more convenient. I am not against 19" and #2 seems like a decent choice. I also like #6 if I can find something closer to $3k - $3.5k.

I would like to use Tire Rack and find someone there that is well versed with our cars. Would you mind sharing the contact information of your sales rep.?

Thanks and good luck this winter,~

Dave

Former car: 2014 M5 BSM Comp.

Originally Posted by David 12

Thank you for the detailed information. I am in the exact same situation; I have an SUV and use my M4 as a second vehicle. Plus, I am retired so i am looking for a combination that works well in cold weather. I agree a square setup might be the best for snow but I am not really concerned about that.

At this point, I am leaning toward a 19" or 20" package but will get dedicated wheels. Just overall easier and more convenient. I am not against 19" and #2 seems like a decent choice. I also like #6 if I can find something closer to $3k - $3.5k.

I would like to use Tire Rack and find someone there that is well versed with our cars. Would you mind sharing the contact information of your sales rep.?

Thanks and good luck this winter,~

Dave

Former car: 2014 M5 BSM Comp.

I just put Apex ARC-8s 19x9.5 square with Yokohama Iceguards snow tires 255/35/r19 and am very impressed with the look and quality. Setup up cost me ~2700. I think I might be buying a set of summer tires for the Apexs look too good to just be a dedicated winter set.

[Fender150]

I did the same wheels but in 18s, with the
Absolute best winters Imo, michelin pa4

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by Fender150

I did the same wheels but in 18s, with the
Absolute best winters Imo, michelin pa4

Pictures?

[FSociety]

Thanks op!
I' was going to do a 18" setup as well but didn't want to lose dry winter traction with a 255/35-19 in the rear.
My 20's 666 are off the car since I had 437M 19" from my previous car and threw on better tires than stock ones.
I'm debating on 245/35 front or 255/35, I already got the 285/35-19 Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4.

The 245/35 is a higher speed rating than the 255 & 285, but it's readily available from a friend who took off his corvette or paying $200+ more for 255/35.
Would anyone run the 245/35 in the front?
I have KW HAS but car is not slammed and no spacers.

My current mp4s are in 255/35 front 285/35 rears fitted in 19 437m.

[Fender150]

Originally Posted by FSociety

Pictures?

Just got around to installing them today. looking good, 245/18

[Jloyer14]

Just bought a zcp, I want to do the same how do you like the pirellis? Did you keep sane set up through the years?

Originally Posted by instarand

For anybody that could possibly care about my decision process for my winter tires, this thread's for you. For everybody else, im sorry for taking up internet space! :-)

I have a 2018 F80 ZCP, and was in pursuit of winter tires. My initial desire was to keep the 666M wheels - partly because I love the wheels, and partly because i like 20 inch vs 18 or 19 visually.

Of course, BMW recommends a square setup 255/35/19 on 19 inch 641 wheels, at least that was the package my local dealer was offering.

Quick background: this M3 is my extra car. i have two other cars, including an SUV that i can use when bad weather hits. So anytime my M3 sees snow it's because i want it to see snow for fun. therefore, maximum snow and ice traction is the lowest priority for me. i am after cold and dry performance. On the top of my priority is looks.

Here's what I had it narrowed down to:

1. Buy a winter set of 19's (Enkei Raijin 19) with Pirelli Sotto II's in 245/35/19 and 265/35/19.
2. Same wheels, but with Michelin Alpin PA4's in 255/35/19 and 285/35/19.
3. go with the BMW square setup using 255/35/19 all around.

OR

4. Keep 666M wheels, and wrap Michelin Alpin PA4's with 245/35/20 and 275/30/20.
5. Keep 666M wheels, and wrap Pirelli Sotto 3's with 265/30/20 and 295/30/20.
6. Buy a dedicated set of 20's and go with either of the above tire options.


I ended up going with option 5. And here's why.

First and foremost, visually it looks the best for me. I love the 666M wheels and i dont want to remove them for 19's that i dont love. and since snow performance is the least important factor, im not losing anything in the decision to keep the 20's. it also happens to be cheaper since i dont have to buy wheels.

Possible concerns: (1) mounting and dismounting tires twice a year and the potential for causing damage to wheel or tire. To manage this, I will be bringing my car to a local and reputable ferrari/exotic specialist that handles super low profile tires all day long. they quoted me a competitive price to do the tires, and i imagine that of all the places mostly likely to do a good job and be most careful with the best equipment, it would be a place like this. i realize it's still somewhat of a concern, but its low on my worry radar due to the specialist doing the work. and (2) the added cost twice a year to actually do the work. i'm very much not concerned with this, but i acknowledge that it exists. and also (3) not having the flexibility to swap out the wheels on my own time each season. That is certainly a cool perk of having dedicated wheels, but that alone didnt move the needle enough for me to care about that.

Another priority for me is potential traction control interference. i am told, and i know there's a lot of debate about this, that when the rear tires are smaller than factory, they are actually spinning faster... and this is why traction control kicks in because it think the rear is spinning faster than it wants and it attempts to limit the rear. Hence when you go from 285's in the back to a square setup with 255's, the 255's are spinning faster at any given speed vs. 285s. BMW certainly doesnt care, because if anything, it'll make the car a little safer. And frankly, that is probably helpful more than anything if the car is your DD and you commute, or rely on it every day of the year. For me, however, that didnt apply. not to mention i dont like the look visually of square 255's all around. rear looks too skinny for my eyes.

Factory total diameter for front and rear is about 26.3 front and 26.8 rear with some variation depending on manufacturer. with my chosen setup, im at 26.3 front and 27.0 in the rear. so with the rears actually being .2 inches larger overall, they are spinning a little slower, in theory there should be no impact on traction control (traction kicks in when it think there's slippage in the rear because they're moving faster than it should).

going with option # 2 above, the total diameter is actually almost an exact match to factory. which was compelling. coming in right about 26.3 and 26.8. So traction control wise and similarity to factory, this seemed like the best option but i still didnt want to go to 19's for 5 months of the year.

With option # 4 above, the front and rear overall diameter was almost identical to each other. and since the rears wear faster generally, it would only be a matter of time before the fronts were actually larger than the rears in overall diameter. which is not ideal. and could be potential cause of traction control interference.

Option # 6 was cool. But very expensive. The wheels that I want in 20" are just too expensive to justify. But if money was not a factor, I probably would buy a set of high end 20's and wrap these Pirellis on them. But I'm not trying to throw $4000-5000 (or more) on this decision


Anyway, that's my story. much of this information i cite above is from various sources such as local tire shops and the friendly tirerack staff. so my apologies if any of the information above isnt exactly correct. i didnt do any personal scientific research. but i trusted various sources and ended up making my own decision based on the information i had available to me.

Curious to know if any of you are as strange as i am when it comes to making decisions like these!! :-)

drive safe this winter! i'll post pics of my setup soon.

PS: i posted on a few previous threads that i was waiting on Michelin to release Alpin PA4's in 265/30/20 to match the existing 285/30/20... i was hopeful these would be released soon, but after continuous follow up it seemed like they would be available in the US until sometime next year at the earliest. So i gave up on that waiting game.