Global Motoring Group's KRATOS Turbos Master Thread

[M3CLESS]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

All of our beta vehicles have the Fue-It PI installed with in tank pump upgrade. Also, the PI is being controlled with the Split Second controller. Motec is a great tuning platform, however it's not needed to achieve these numbers or beyond on the S55. The BM3 and Fuel-It PI will easily support these horsepower figures on E85.

How about running vp import (race gas) i would be very interested in talking to you about some upgrades

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by M3CLESS

How about running vp import (race gas) i would be very interested in talking to you about some upgrades

We've never tried to maximize power output on the stock fuel system with our turbos using VP Import fuel. Being that the price of VP Import is so high, it's not a fuel most customers would consider using on a daily basis unlike E85. If you have any other technical questions, please feel free to e-mail us at info@asrkratos.com with your contact information and someone from our staff will reach out to you. Expect a response after Wednesday of next week as we will be closed for the Christmas holiday.

[RSXDC5]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

All of our beta vehicles have the Fue-It PI installed with in tank pump upgrade. Also, the PI is being controlled with the Split Second controller. Motec is a great tuning platform, however it's not needed to achieve these numbers or beyond on the S55. The BM3 and Fuel-It PI will easily support these horsepower figures on E85.

Xtreme-DI has a HPFP upgrade coming out for the S55 in Q1 2019...should make fueling woes a little easier to resolve vs a whole PI setup.

[whoop_ass]

Originally Posted by RSXDC5

Xtreme-DI has a HPFP upgrade coming out for the S55 in Q1 2019...should make fueling woes a little easier to resolve vs a whole PI setup.

I am huge fan of keeping things simple and would opt for the higher flow HPFP.
but, we need 2 and it's going be expensive

but they have had good results with n55 and XD-I pumps with PS2
really looking forward to more results and test on these turbos when more people test them.
they do seem to flow very well for sure.

[CAOZKAN]

Originally Posted by whoop_ass

I am huge fan of keeping things simple and would opt for the higher flow HPFP.
but, we need 2 and it's going be expensive

but they have had good results with n55 and XD-I pumps with PS2
really looking forward to more results and test on these turbos when more people test them.
they do seem to flow very well for sure.

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I was wondering if one get these HPFPs, will it let the car make more power with the same octane rating?

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by CAOZKAN

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I was wondering if one get these HPFPs, will it let the car make more power with the same octane rating?

It just flows more fuel

[GORDON.M3]

That TI compressor wheel is amazing, the beauty of machining!

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by whoop_ass

I am huge fan of keeping things simple and would opt for the higher flow HPFP.
but, we need 2 and it's going be expensive

but they have had good results with n55 and XD-I pumps with PS2
really looking forward to more results and test on these turbos when more people test them.
they do seem to flow very well for sure.

Yes, KRATOS engineers designed the KRAS55Bi to flow and support 850whp before reaching the limit of the factory MAP sensor of approximately 36psi. The dyno numbers posted in our press release are limited to a stock engine at 32psi and continue to climb at even 7500rpm. That being said, 850whp with a built engine is very much achievable with the KRAS55Bi. One of our in house beta test vehicles is currently going through the engine build process, so expect to see max output results for the KRAS55Bi very shortly. Max output results for the KRAS55Ti will be posted shortly thereafter.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by CAOZKAN

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I was wondering if one get these HPFPs, will it let the car make more power with the same octane rating?

The horsepower figures for pump gas are limited by octane and cooling capabilities rather than a limitation of the stock fuel system. Also, EGT's are significantly higher on pump gas vs. race gas or E85. The is due to the fact that pump gas is a faster and hotter burning fuel and timing needs to be reduced to prevent pre-detonation. As timing is reduced EGT's begin to rise and a happy medium has to be found on the tuning side. Timing has to be reduced enough to prevent pre-detonation and at the same time not allow the EGT's to rise too high. There is no exact figure that works across all engine applications. So, working with an experienced tuner like Halim@HCP is key!

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by GORDON.M3

That TI compressor wheel is amazing, the beauty of machining!

We appreciate the positive feedback!

[M3CLESS]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

We've never tried to maximize power output on the stock fuel system with our turbos using VP Import fuel. Being that the price of VP Import is so high, it's not a fuel most customers would consider using on a daily basis unlike E85. If you have any other technical questions, please feel free to e-mail us at info@asrkratos.com with your contact information and someone from our staff will reach out to you. Expect a response after Wednesday of next week as we will be closed for the Christmas holiday.

Never received that phone cal or response. Still very curious about the tuning aspect of a turbo kit making this much power.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

The horsepower figures for pump gas are limited by octane and cooling capabilities rather than a limitation of the stock fuel system. Also, EGT's are significantly higher on pump gas vs. race gas or E85. The is due to the fact that pump gas is a faster and hotter burning fuel and timing needs to be reduced to prevent pre-detonation. As timing is reduced EGT's begin to rise and a happy medium has to be found on the tuning side. Timing has to be reduced enough to prevent pre-detonation and at the same time not allow the EGT's to rise too high. There is no exact figure that works across all engine applications. So, working with an experienced tuner like Halim@HCP is key!

Will you guys be designing turbos and manifolds for the N55?
Great points you make in this thread as I am very familiar with the potential ill's of using the Pureturbo design concept on the N55 engines. This thread is timely
Just to repeat All the points made in this thread by Kratos is why I never considered using a Pure turbo setup on my N55 powered car.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by M3CLESS

Never received that phone cal or response. Still very curious about the tuning aspect of a turbo kit making this much power.

We just wanted to clarify that we were closed for the holidays, but one of our engineers did reach out to someone by the name of Kyle last week and discussed different aspects of our turbo systems. Was that you, please advise?

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

Will you guys be designing iturbos and manifolds for the N55?
Great points you make in this thread as I am very familiar with the potential ill's of using the Pureturbo design concept on the N55 engines. This thread is timely
Just to repeat All the points made in this thread by Kratos is why I never considered using a Pure turbo setup on my N55 powered car.

We appreciate the positive feedback, however since the N55 is discontinued it wouldn't be conducive to our business model as a manufacturer to produce a turbo system for that platform. Although, we are currently designing turbo systems for other BMW platforms as well as a turbo system for the McLaren 720S (M840T) and a recently completed turbo system for the MB AMG M177/M178.

[M3CLESS]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

We just wanted to clarify that we were closed for the holidays, but one of our engineers did reach out to someone by the name of Kyle last week and discussed different aspects of our turbo systems. Was that you, please advise?

That was me. Thank you so much for the talk and it was very informative. I spoke with HCP about a custom tune with safe guards. I am super pumped for the Titanium Kit.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by M3CLESS

That was me. Thank you so much for the talk and it was very informative. I spoke with HCP about a custom tune with safe guards. I am super pumped for the Titanium Kit.

Great, we just wanted to make sure everyone was being responded to in a timely manner and that no one was being left unanswered. We're pretty pumped about the release of our KRAS55Ti's as well! Our KRAS55Bi systems will start shipping by the end of this month and KRAS55Ti's will follow shortly thereafter.

[bracer]

No doubt it could be a great product, and I'm familiar with the current issues with back pressure in the manifold, and what we are currently getting for ratios between boost and back pressure. Not to mention I just ordered a stage II+ and I've had some missing pieces on their install kit, so there's that. If this does what they say, it looks like it could perform well, although it appears the spool is pretty late.

For my car I'm planning on running without Meth, port injection, or E85 though (road race car), which limits the amount of power / boost you can run. (100 Octane race fuel) I think the issue I see with this option is you'd really need / want to be pushing the envelop pretty hard 30+ psi, (Port injection, built motor, built head to raise spring pressures, etc...) before an $8K turbo setup starts to make sense on a car that's worth 50K on the used market. Maybe it's just me coming from a place that I can buy a new turbo from Garrett and a custom manifold for significantly less. I just think they're going after a pretty razor thin segment of the market with this pricing. Given there isn't a core, but it's not like the used stock turbos are worth much on the market either.

Given if this was a McLaren 720S I'd probably feel differently. It could just be me though! I see all the people buying 8K wheels so there are people that will spend that.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

[blockdoc]

Originally Posted by mad_f87

Mr. Bill, I think you should take a deeper look into these turbos, and how they are different than pure. I honestly dont know much about VTT but all I know is that pure are not great, unless if you are going for their stage 2+.
Additionally, Kratos use higher grade material and ceramic ball bearings which is not found in competitors. If that is not enough, you must realize that they have done this with stock internals thanks to their low back pressure allowing you to run the turbos on 30+ psi without breaking your connecting rods.
For the pricier version you are buying a titanium turbo charger, ever seen one of those for the S55 probably not.
And to end this post with the best part. You dont need to send in your cores, you get to keep them, and the assembly is full bolt on.

So to be clear...the Pure Turbos I just had installed are "not great"? Thank you for that lol. I have more power than I can deal with on a very conservative custom tune. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the work and R and D yall seem to have put in....but that kinda sucks. The Pure turbos have all the current records...they are clearly a pretty good product. Are the Kratos better??? quite possibly...yes. But is it worth a 4 GRAND difference for the daily driver??? Not being a douche....just throwing this out there

[blockdoc]

Originally Posted by blackey

No doubt it could be a great product, and I'm familiar with the current issues with back pressure in the manifold, and what we are currently getting for ratios between boost and back pressure. Not to mention I just ordered a stage II+ and I've had some missing pieces on their install kit, so there's that. If this does what they say, it looks like it could perform well, although it appears the spool is pretty late.

For my car I'm planning on running without Meth, port injection, or E85 though (road race car), which limits the amount of power / boost you can run. (100 Octane race fuel) I think the issue I see with this option is you'd really need / want to be pushing the envelop pretty hard 30+ psi, (Port injection, built motor, built head to raise spring pressures, etc...) before an $8K turbo setup starts to make sense on a car that's worth 50K on the used market. Maybe it's just me coming from a place that I can buy a new turbo from Garrett and a custom manifold for significantly less. I just think they're going after a pretty razor thin segment of the market with this pricing. Given there isn't a core, but it's not like the used stock turbos are worth much on the market either.

Given if this was a McLaren 720S I'd probably feel differently. It could just be me though! I see all the people buying 8K wheels so there are people that will spend that.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

Very well summarized

[Ktulu990]

I'm new to this platform but I'm confused about all the fussing on the price when the F8X owners shell out $4k plus for a cat back, $8k for 2 or 3 HUNDRED horsepower seems reasonable to me.

On top of that the product seems top notch and provides a reasonable expectation of longevity on a stock block.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by blackey

No doubt it could be a great product, and I'm familiar with the current issues with back pressure in the manifold, and what we are currently getting for ratios between boost and back pressure. Not to mention I just ordered a stage II+ and I've had some missing pieces on their install kit, so there's that. If this does what they say, it looks like it could perform well, although it appears the spool is pretty late.

For my car I'm planning on running without Meth, port injection, or E85 though (road race car), which limits the amount of power / boost you can run. (100 Octane race fuel) I think the issue I see with this option is you'd really need / want to be pushing the envelop pretty hard 30+ psi, (Port injection, built motor, built head to raise spring pressures, etc...) before an $8K turbo setup starts to make sense on a car that's worth 50K on the used market. Maybe it's just me coming from a place that I can buy a new turbo from Garrett and a custom manifold for significantly less. I just think they're going after a pretty razor thin segment of the market with this pricing. Given there isn't a core, but it's not like the used stock turbos are worth much on the market either.

Given if this was a McLaren 720S I'd probably feel differently. It could just be me though! I see all the people buying 8K wheels so there are people that will spend that.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

We don't feel you're hijacking the thread at all, so no need to apologize. We encourage potential end users to voice their opinions or concerns about our products as this input is valuable as a manufacturer. We appreciate your feedback and honest assessment of our KRAS55Bi's, but want address a couple of discrepancies and concerns you mentioned.

We noticed you may have over looked where we stated in our press release that boost response was decreased via lowered duty cycle to limit torque as a precautionary and preventative measure to reduce the risk of connecting rod failure at the given horsepower level. Our turbos actually spool within a few hundred rpm of stock turbos with the properly attenuated duty cycle input on a stock engine.

You mentioned your vehicle is being used for road race application which is what where we originally started our beta testing on with the race team Strom Motorsports. Due to failures with stock journal bearing turbos and smoking issues on their road course and endurance race cars, they decided to install KRATOS Turbos and have been running them without failure for almost 2 years. Given the fact that our ball bearing technology can handle extremely higher thrust loads and has a significantly higher mechanical efficiency than that of standard journal bearings, this rapidly increases acceleration rate of the rotor group which is a great benefit for road course applications. In addition the reduced back pressure from our manifold design is not realized only at high boost pressures. The positive effect from reduced back pressure is a benefit at any given boost pressure both from a power aspect as well as increased engine reliability, especially for road coarse vehicles. This is one of the major contributing factors as to why our KRAS55Bi's produce significantly more power with less effort even on pump gas vs. any stock turbo style hybrid or casted turbo system on the market. As a result, Strom Motorsports logged continuously lower and more consistent lap times.

Price wise we understand our price point is higher than other S55 options. However, the major differences lay in the quality, engineering, technology, power output,, reliability/durability, warranty, etc. These are the key differences when dealing with a True OEM Style Turbo Manufacturer. Yes, you could purchase a custom Garrett Twin Turbo Kit. Although, that would not fit like OEM style stock turbos and would require new downpipes, intercooler piping, intercooler, custom lines, custom inlets, etc. You would also be sacrificing OEM style drivability with large amounts of lag to make power in the upper rpm band. This is due in part to the fact that larger custom twin turbos system use universal turbos rather than a turbo system engineered and designed for a specific vehicle application. Also, current Garrett style offerings that we are aware of start at the same retail price as our KRAS55Bi and go well beyond our retail price depending on turbo options.

Hopefully, this helps clarify a few things even if it doesn't change your opinion about or product or price point. You're entitled to your opinion and we respect that. We will be releasing new data this week of the same KRAS55Bi's on a built engine S55 and all we can say is that the results are astonishing to say the least, so stay tuned!

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by mad_f87

Mr. Bill, I think you should take a deeper look into these turbos, and how they are different than pure. I honestly dont know much about VTT but all I know is that pure are not great, unless if you are going for their stage 2+.
Additionally, Kratos use higher grade material and ceramic ball bearings which is not found in competitors. If that is not enough, you must realize that they have done this with stock internals thanks to their low back pressure allowing you to run the turbos on 30+ psi without breaking your connecting rods.
For the pricier version you are buying a titanium turbo charger, ever seen one of those for the S55 probably not.
And to end this post with the best part. You dont need to send in your cores, you get to keep them, and the assembly is full bolt on.