Debating between MHAS and Ebach euro

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by scoale

This is a great thread. Thanks to all who have contributed.

Question: I notice people are dropping the front more than the back; does that have any adverse consequences?

I think I am the rare exception where the stock adaptive suspension is more capable than I am and I think the car looks GREAT as is. On a related note, I think the ride is pretty compliant with my 18" 513M wheels.

These cars have quite a bit of rake as standard, lowering seems to make it a bit more obvious. I posted before, but my HAS is set lower relative to the spring perches at the back than the front and there is still noticeable rake.

18in wheels will always be more comfortable than larger wheels at the same/similar tire diameter due to the more substantial sidewall. I love 18in wheels and long for the day that someone makes an 18in GT4 style wheel that works easily for street cars - closest right now are Signature SV104 and Titan TS-5.

[espressoo]

It hasn't been mentioned but tire choices and the use of spacers has a big impact on how much wheel gap "there appears to be". For example MPS4S has pretty square side walls and if you had aftermarket wheels and/or spacers that pushes them flush to the fenders a mid drop would make the wheel gap look much better. Continental tires in my experience has rounder side walls and doesn't fill in the gap as good compared to Michelins.

If budget isn't a concern, MPHAS will let you dial in the height. I have Eibach V2 fronts only because the rears to me was already perfect. That and MPHAS was like 3x-4x the cost (parts only).

OEM rear height with MPS4S 265/295.

[Adcampo]

Originally Posted by espressoo

It hasn't been mentioned but tire choices and the use of spacers has a big impact on how much wheel gap "there appears to be". For example MPS4S has pretty square side walls and if you had aftermarket wheels and/or spacers that pushes them flush to the fenders a mid drop would make the wheel gap look much better. Continental tires in my experience has rounder side walls and doesn't fill in the gap as good compared to Michelins.

If budget isn't a concern, MPHAS will let you dial in the height. I have Eibach V2 fronts only because the rears to me was already perfect. That and MPHAS was like 3x-4x the cost (parts only).

OEM rear height with MPS4S 265/295.

Looks good. So you just swapped out the front springs and kept the rears oem? I was reading about that.

Interesting thing about rake. I just did a rough measurement from the ground to the lower edge of the fenders. R is just under 27" and F was close to 27.5"s. I would have thought it would have been the opposite. Lower in the front.

As an FYI, mine is a stock 18' ZCP with PS4's.

[espressoo]

We have the same car. Mines a 2018 ZCP. As mentioned I just have Eibach V2 front springs installed. I’ve never been bothered by the rake. Adding a rear diffuser with wrap around sides does help improve the appearance though. I’m overall happy with the wheel gaps, stance, ride quality and ground clearance. I can still safely drive around town and get in and out of most shopping centers. If it’s an unknown area I don’t bother taking the M. That’s the downside of having a lowered vehicle.

[Adcampo]

Originally Posted by velvet_F82

I'll recommend the H&R HAS sleeve kit if you want to go lower. I'm very happy with mine so far:

That thing looks sharp.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by scoale

This is a great thread. Thanks to all who have contributed.

Question: I notice people are dropping the front more than the back; does that have any adverse consequences?

I think I am the rare exception where the stock adaptive suspension is more capable than I am and I think the car looks GREAT as is. On a related note, I think the ride is pretty compliant with my 18" 513M wheels.

Regarding rake, yes it does have an adverse consequence. Altering ride height also alters the roll center geometry. Lowering the front excessively relative to the rear has the rear axle take a larger proportion of the weight transfer during cornering and reduces rear grip, particularly when power is applied coming out of corners. I originally lowered the front and rear by equal amounts. I ended up raising the front a tad further to improve corner exit traction which improved my lap times.

But most people are more concerned about looks than performance.

[YKIGI]

I will keep saying it

CS coding + Euro V1 ALLLLLLLLL DAYYYYYYYYY


Have to do the coding or this will not work as good

I know op has ZCP. But for others. It Has to be ZCP. The CS coding does not work well on stock

[fiveohwblow]

Originally Posted by YKIGI

I will keep saying it

CS coding + Euro V1 ALLLLLLLLL DAYYYYYYYYY

I agree. I have kw HAS with CS coding and it rides better than stock. My wife complimented the compliant ride, and she is completely CLUELESS about vehicles. If one was to retain factory shocks while giving a mild drop as I have, it's perfect.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Regarding rake, yes it does have an adverse consequence. Altering ride height also alters the roll center geometry. Lowering the front excessively relative to the rear has the rear axle take a larger proportion of the weight transfer during cornering and reduces rear grip, particularly when power is applied coming out of corners. I originally lowered the front and rear by equal amounts. I ended up raising the front a tad further to improve corner exit traction which improved my lap times.

But most people are more concerned about looks than performance.

Makes sense. Thanks for response.

[Keca10]

Where do you guys go to get CS coding?
It’s not available from Thor or other off the shelf coding solutions. I downloaded ESYS, but I don’t feel comfortable to code myself as the instructions are hard to follow.

I have a ‘18 ZCP stock shocks and it sounds like CS EDC + the MP HAS upgrade would be a great choice.

[Adcampo]

Originally Posted by Keca10

Where do you guys go to get CS coding?
It’s not available from Thor or other off the shelf coding solutions. I downloaded ESYS, but I don’t feel comfortable to code myself as the instructions are hard to follow.

I have a ‘18 ZCP stock shocks and it sounds like CS EDC + the MP HAS upgrade would be a great choice.

I thought it was part of Thor? I know you can get it from Bootmod3. There's also a member here who will do it for you. PM and I'll send you his contact info.

[fiveohwblow]

Originally Posted by Keca10

Where do you guys go to get CS coding?
It’s not available from Thor or other off the shelf coding solutions. I downloaded ESYS, but I don’t feel comfortable to code myself as the instructions are hard to follow.

I have a ‘18 ZCP stock shocks and it sounds like CS EDC + the MP HAS upgrade would be a great choice.

Alex @ alpine. Shoot him a text 310-560-0808

[11LMBiSTT]

Originally Posted by Adcampo

I thought it was part of Thor? I know you can get it from Bootmod3. There's also a member here who will do it for you. PM and I'll send you his contact info.

You can only get CS engine map and transmission mapping from BM3 not edc, diff, steering mapping from BM3.

Alex @ Alpine can handle the edc, diff and steering coding remotely. Great guy.

[Adcampo]

Originally Posted by 11LMBiSTT

You can only get CS engine map and transmission mapping from BM3 not edc, diff, steering mapping from BM3.

Alex @ Alpine can handle the edc, diff and steering coding remotely. Great guy.

Okay thanks. While I'm waiting to get the MHAS, I'm going to do the CS damper flash and GTS EDC, diff and steering flash tomorrow.

Anyone done the CS flash with stock ZCP suspension?

[PhillyfaanM3]

This is my car on the HPHAS, I love it, still compliant over crappy PA roads yet improved handling in cornering.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Keca10

Where do you guys go to get CS coding?
It’s not available from Thor or other off the shelf coding solutions. I downloaded ESYS, but I don’t feel comfortable to code myself as the instructions are hard to follow.

I have a ‘18 ZCP stock shocks and it sounds like CS EDC + the MP HAS upgrade would be a great choice.

You would need to swap your front sway bar for the non-competition one to fully get the benefit on the CS EDC coding.

[Adcampo]

I just had the CS damper flash done along with the GTS throttle and steering. It may just be me, but I think I've noticed an improvement. As others have said about the CS damper flash, it's a bit more comfortable and compliant. An odd observation is I noticed it going over a speed bump. Pre flash it felt pretty jarring/stiff and now it's smooth. as an FYI, I'm still on stock ZCP dampers/springs.

[Keca10]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You would need to swap your front sway bar for the non-competition one to fully get the benefit on the CS EDC coding.

I didn't realize CS and ZCP had different hardware. Good to know.

[ohohoh123456]

on eibach springs+12mm spacer here, it's nice, feels fairly close to oem with near perfect drop (i'd like maybe a little more in front). you can definitely tell back to back after swapping the slightly lower spring rate makes the ride just a bit softer but overall, for normal road use, it's perfect.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by Adcampo

Thanks guys. I do have a ZCP and heard the CS flash is a nice enhancement.

Not so worried about shock longevity. They'll outlast my ownership for sure. The oem and warranty aspect is a nice upside.

Have MHAS owners noticed meaningful performance improvements? The stock setup doesn't seem very buttoned down in tight slow speed turns. I also notice a moderate amount of body roll.

The OEM shocks will not outlast your ownership unless you plan on selling your car in like 5K miles or so. The truth is all shocks wear out over time and installing any lowering springs - including MP HAS kits will hasten the degradation, and even more if people ignore the BMW recommendations and drop the car as low as possible.

While I didn't try the MP HAS kit, I did have the very similar KW HAS kit on my brand new M3 and the damping of my stock shocks were noticeably bad in less than 10K miles. If you don't think the stock set up is very buttoned down, when the shocks degrade, you will notice the even floatier ride quality and the car will crash harder over railroad tracks and potholes.

I have lowered every single car I've owned and I've done it with everything from cut springs, to aftermkt springs to sleeve kits, to aftermarket shock and lowering spring kits, to several full on coilover kits. The reality is, every time I replaced only springs, the stock shocks had noticeably less damping in about 10K miles... maybe 20K miles tops. Not everyone will notice this but it was very noticeable to me and my M3 was probably the worse in how fast the stock shocks wore out once I added the KW HAS kit.

So if you are at all considering the MP HAS kit, just spend a little more and get some full coilovers that have matched shocks w/ adjustable height springs. Bilstein PSS10s start at about $2K and KW V3s are about $2.4K. It really is worth the extra cost IMO and will save you money in the long run.

Every time I bought only springs. I've ended up going back and replacing my suspension with either upgraded shocks too or upgrading to a full coilover suspension and paying 2x for install/removal costs. Despite knowing this, I made the same mistake yet again with my M3 and went with the KW HAS kit thinking M3s are high perofrmance cars that should have really great stock German engineered dampers... they were great for about 5K miles then started noticeably getting worse... and I didn't even slam the car - had about 2 finger gap in front and near stock height in rear on my KW HAS kit.

I'm sure many will disagree, but just putting this out there for your consideration. There's nothing worse than driving a $70K - $80K car where you have to cringe when you approach railroad tracks or hit a big bump on the fwy onramp b/c you know the suspension's about to go to hell in a handbasket.

[jacobe92]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

The OEM shocks will not outlast your ownership unless you plan on selling your car in like 5K miles or so. The truth is all shocks wear out over time and installing any lowering springs - including MP HAS kits will hasten the degradation, and even more if people ignore the BMW recommendations and drop the car as low as possible.

While I didn't try the MP HAS kit, I did have the very similar KW HAS kit on my brand new M3 and the damping of my stock shocks were noticeably bad in less than 10K miles. If you don't think the stock set up is very buttoned down, when the shocks degrade, you will notice the even floatier ride quality and the car will crash harder over railroad tracks and potholes.

I have lowered every single car I've owned and I've done it with everything from cut springs, to aftermkt springs to sleeve kits, to aftermarket shock and lowering spring kits, to several full on coilover kits. The reality is, every time I replaced only springs, the stock shocks had noticeably less damping in about 10K miles... maybe 20K miles tops. Not everyone will notice this but it was very noticeable to me and my M3 was probably the worse in how fast the stock shocks wore out once I added the KW HAS kit.

So if you are at all considering the MP HAS kit, just spend a little more and get some full coilovers that have matched shocks w/ adjustable height springs. Bilstein PSS10s start at about $2K and KW V3s are about $2.4K. It really is worth the extra cost IMO and will save you money in the long run.

Every time I bought only springs. I've ended up going back and replacing my suspension with either upgraded shocks too or upgrading to a full coilover suspension and paying 2x for install/removal costs. Despite knowing this, I made the same mistake yet again with my M3 and went with the KW HAS kit thinking M3s are high perofrmance cars that should have really great stock German engineered dampers... they were great for about 5K miles then started noticeably getting worse... and I didn't even slam the car - had about 2 finger gap in front and near stock height in rear on my KW HAS kit.

I'm sure many will disagree, but just putting this out there for your consideration. There's nothing worse than driving a $70K - $80K car where you have to cringe when you approach railroad tracks or hit a big bump on the fwy onramp b/c you know the suspension's about to go to hell in a handbasket.

Agreed. Btw, I've also done it all too. In high school I blow torch the OEM Springs of my Prelude Si to get the desired ride height that I wanted. Little did I know that as time went on, the car would just get lower and lower to the point where you can't drive it anymore.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by jacobe92

Agreed. Btw, I've also done it all too. In high school I blow torch the OEM Springs of my Prelude Si to get the desired ride height that I wanted. Little did I know that as time went on, the car would just get lower and lower to the point where you can't drive it anymore.

LOL. Nice! Forgot about that. I did that for a friend's car but never for one of my own. Even back then I knew that it would not be a good idea to change the fatigue characteristics of metal through heating. Of course, my buddy thought it was perfect...and when it got lower, it looked even better.