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      08-07-2017, 04:28 PM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdchicago View Post
Pricing may be based on local markets but, based on exchange rates, BMW would be losing money today at $100,000 US dollars (85,000 Euros) for the M4 CS. Those cars will be made in Germany, not the US like the SUV line in SC.
Another way around this will be for BMW to export less of them to the US and increase exclusivity and price.
Losing what ?

It's not like it is costing them over 85k Euros to produce. Quite far from it actually...
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      08-07-2017, 06:13 PM   #530
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I'm trying to decide if I should just wait until the spring to pick up one of these bad boys. Since I changed my order to an individual interior, I no longer have an allocation and it may make sense for me to wait until the spring now.

But a price tag of 120k Canadian may be too much to spend. For that money I can grab a lightly used GT4 or 911S.
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      08-07-2017, 09:53 PM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdchicago View Post

Pricing may be based on local markets but, based on exchange rates, BMW would be losing money today at $100,000 US dollars (85,000 Euros) for the M4 CS. Those cars will be made in Germany, not the US like the SUV line in SC.
Another way around this will be for BMW to export less of them to the US and increase exclusivity and price.
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Losing what ?

It's not like it is costing them over 85k Euros to produce. Quite far from it actually...
+1, What are you talking about? I'm pretty sure BMW some experience at how to make margin on US-sold German built cars.

BMW has been manufacturing in Germany, importing, distributing, and selling cars for profit into the US since Hoffman set it up in the 50s with the 503/7.

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      08-08-2017, 03:55 PM   #532
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I do find it a bit odd that BMW UK has priced this model but BMW NA hasn't.

I do think you're looking at a $40-45k (US) premium over the standard car.
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      08-09-2017, 09:25 AM   #533
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Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
I do find it a bit odd that BMW UK has priced this model but BMW NA hasn't.

I do think you're looking at a $40-45k (US) premium over the standard car.
I think it will be less than that. So far, where pricing has been announced, the CS has ~50% premium over a base M4. Which would mean a ~$33k premium in the US.
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      08-09-2017, 12:22 PM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Pricing is not based on exchange rate, but rather based on local market. The CS will likely be around $115k CAD here in Canada.

And BTW, it is not the Euro that went up but rather the USD that went down. Here in Canada, we have not seen much variation with the Euro but the USD has recently become quite cheeper .
I am expecting it to start at around 120k CAD plus options. I got a deposit down and 115k would be great.
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      08-09-2017, 01:08 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by M4_GTS View Post
I am expecting it to start at around 120k CAD plus options. I got a deposit down and 115k would be great.
I am having fun speculating on this . I guess it helps with the waiting for the official pricing to be released . Here's is how I came up with the price range comparing base models and equivalently equipped competition packs to three official pricing that have been released (Germany, Switzerland and UK):
  • In Germany: base=Eur 78,299, spec'ed CP=Eur 92,930, CS=Eur 116,900
  • In Switzerland: base=CHF 94,400, spec'ed CP=CHF 114,240, CS=CHF 139,900
  • In the UK: base=GBP 59,080 Lbs, spec'ed CP=GBP 66,975, CS=GBP 87,150
  • In Canada: base=CAD 76,500, spec'ed CP=CAD 90,650, CS=CAD 111,010 ~ 117,960
Using the base model as a reference, the premium for the CS is between 47.5%, 48.2% and 49.3%, putting the CS in the 113k to 114k CAD range with a 113.5k median.

Since the "base" models come with different standard equipment depending of the local markets, I think it is better to compare to an equivalently spec'ed M4 DCT CP (all equipped with the same options). So the CS commands between 22.5%, 25.8% and 30.1% premium over that spec'ed Competition Pack, putting the CS between 111k and 118k CAD with a 114.3k median.

I also have a deposit down, so for both of us, lets hope my wishful thinking is right .
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Last edited by CanAutM3; 09-18-2017 at 02:01 PM.. Reason: Added UK pricing to the analysis
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      08-09-2017, 01:32 PM   #536
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Are they all going to be DCT or will we get manual? If my 18' M3 delays into November/December for delivery, i may place a deposit on the CS as well.
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      08-09-2017, 01:35 PM   #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4_GTS View Post
I am expecting it to start at around 120k CAD plus options. I got a deposit down and 115k would be great.
What? You can't own a GTS and a CS, thats just not fair!
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      08-09-2017, 01:49 PM   #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I think it will be less than that. So far, where pricing has been announced, the CS has ~50% premium over a base M4. Which would mean a ~$33k premium in the US.
In the UK when you factor in they offered no discount CS the difference was around £35,000 when I enquired or 65% more. 54k vs. 89k

I can't see them selling in UK in any kind of numbers if they don't offer incentives, if you get good discounts on standard M cars and they don't incentivise the CS in your market the delta could be the same.

But I still don't understand why they haven't priced the car over there.
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      08-09-2017, 02:19 PM   #539
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Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
In the UK when you factor in they offered no discount CS the difference was around £35,000 when I enquired or 65% more. 54k vs. 89k

I can't see them selling in UK in any kind of numbers if they don't offer incentives, if you get good discounts on standard M cars and they don't incentivise the CS in your market the delta could be the same.

But I still don't understand why they haven't priced the car over there.
As far as I know, the £89k is not an official figure from BMW. At least, I have not found that figure on any BMW documentation.
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      08-09-2017, 02:25 PM   #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
As far as I know, the £89k is not an official figure from BMW. At least, I have not found that figure on any BMW documentation.
Well I'm looking at a BMW UK price list. £89,130 on the road to be precise, so now you have seen it.
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      08-09-2017, 02:46 PM   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
+1, What are you talking about? I'm pretty sure BMW some experience at how to make margin on US-sold German built cars.

BMW has been manufacturing in Germany, importing, distributing, and selling cars for profit into the US since Hoffman set it up in the 50s with the 503/7.

Not just a margin issue. If the dollar loses 50% of its value within a few months (and it has in the past - in the eighties) BMW will get only 50% of the original value (original set price at model launch) in Euros.
So far, the US dollar already lost over 18% vs the Euro in the last 4 months.
There are ways for manufacturers to protect themselves against market risk but that is a different subject. Still not good for German manufacturers.
I bet that the M4 CS will come up higher than we think to partially compensate against a strong Euro.
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      08-09-2017, 03:34 PM   #542
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Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
Well I'm looking at a BMW UK price list. £89,130 on the road to be precise, so now you have seen it.
Thanks for that, I now found it on the UK site. I guess I should have searched a bit more .

So to compare apple-to-apples, a M4 CS would command a 30% premium over the reference M4 CP. That is indeed a fair bit more than in Germany and Switzerland. Does not make a strong case for the CS in the UK...
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      08-09-2017, 03:34 PM   #543
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If you know about risk hedging (forex arbitrage, futures, currency-forward contracts, in-country operations, tax strategies, etc), including that fact that BMW AG has a $5B, 10,000 employee US subsidiary operating in US currency, then why would you say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdchicago View Post
If the dollar loses 50% of its value within a few months (and it has in the past - in the eighties) BMW will get only 50% of the original value (original set price at model launch) in Euros.
I can't think of a way to be more currency hedged than to have massive US operation and payroll, not to mention all the clever forex shit I'm sure BMWAG finance is up to.

Unless currency fluctuations are massive and sustained BMW probably isn't affected.

Just like large airlines aren't (much) affected anymore by fuel price fluctuations:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines has hired a consultant to assess the impact on jet fuel prices if the carrier sells or closes the Philadelphia-area refinery it purchased five years ago to keep fuel affordable, two sources familiar with the process said.
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      08-09-2017, 03:42 PM   #544
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BMW is making a big profit on this car. It has identical suspension components to the ZCP and the door panels from the GTS. The main investment was the R&D hours to do a bunch of laps around the Nurburgring and find a better shock damping curve.
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      08-09-2017, 04:01 PM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Thanks for that, I now found it on the UK site. I guess I should have searched a bit more .

So to compare apple-to-apples, a M4 CS would command a 32% premium over the reference M4 CP. That is indeed a fair bit more than in Germany and Switzerland. Does not make a strong case for the CS in the UK...
It was more of a comment around the "gap" between the M4 DCT and the CS grows when you factor in the discount on the standard car vs. the CS if they won't do a deal.

The UK is massive market for BMW, 4th largest in the world we take over 10% of their unit output so they tend to try and make cars work here, lets see what happens.
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      09-15-2017, 10:13 AM   #546
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I thought the carbon fiber drive shaft was going away to make room for the euro emissions required petrol particulate filter that will have to be installed in all models soon.
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      09-15-2017, 10:17 AM   #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mose121 View Post
I thought the carbon fiber drive shaft was going away to make room for the euro emissions required petrol particulate filter that will have to be installed in all models soon.
If you read the memo carefully, you'll see that the M4 CS is specifically excluded from that.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1411862

Quote:
This measure does not apply to the BMW M4 CS and BMW M4 GTS special-edition models.
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      09-18-2017, 10:53 AM   #548
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When should we expect to receive the M4 CS stateside??
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      09-18-2017, 12:48 PM   #549
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When should we expect to receive the M4 CS stateside??
Late spring to early summer of 2018.
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      09-18-2017, 01:55 PM   #550
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Originally Posted by M4_GTS View Post
Late spring to early summer of 2018.
Can't speak for the US, but I was given the same info for Canada ("around the end of Q2")
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