M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by Liquid2.0T

Am I crazy for wanting a Tesla Model Y performance once my lease is up on my F80? I'm super interested to get some EV experience and I now have a 13 month old and we will be planning for a 2nd soon. The F80 is super quick (some bolt-ons) but I'm almost turning 40 and I think I may need to tone it down a bit. Plus the G80 is not something I want at the moment.

Will I experience instant regret picking up the MYP coming from an F80?

You're not crazy bc EVs are the future and Tesla's are at the cutting edge of that future.

Having lived with both cars long term (F80 going on 5 years and Model 3 a full year next month), I would say if you can keep the F80 and add the Tesla you'd have the best of both. One cannot replace the other. They are different but together make a very versatile pair of cars. It's similar to how a FI car cannot compare to a NA in the way the engine feels and drives, the same could be said with going EV vs ICE.

[Liquid2.0T]

Can't keep both (technically could, would just be really irresponsible ��) so I need to pick one. M3 is coming off lease, but it's just been such a great car that it's difficult to give up for something else in the price range. Main reason for considering the MYP is the 13 month old and realistically, just getting some first hand experience with a capable EV.

[IS350]

Originally Posted by Liquid2.0T

Can't keep both (technically could, would just be really irresponsible ��) so I need to pick one. M3 is coming off lease, but it's just been such a great car that it's difficult to give up for something else in the price range. Main reason for considering the MYP is the 13 month old and realistically, just getting some first hand experience with a capable EV.

I started this thread back in 2018 when I got my Tesla and transferred my M3 lease. I don't miss the BMW as much as I love the Tesla.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by Liquid2.0T

Can't keep both (technically could, would just be really irresponsible ��) so I need to pick one. M3 is coming off lease, but it's just been such a great car that it's difficult to give up for something else in the price range. Main reason for considering the MYP is the 13 month old and realistically, just getting some first hand experience with a capable EV.

If I were to offer a potential MYP purchaser any advice it would be:

1) plan on 200 miles of range. Yes, it will go much further in purely city driving (<65 mph) but it won't go much further than that in 70+ mph freeway driving. Fortunately, for longer/interstate driving Superchargers are typically spaced about 140 miles apart, so you'll likely never have any problems getting anywhere; you'll just need to stop for 15-25 minutes for a top-up.

2) realize that the bulk of your charging (typically 90+%) will be done at home, overnight, and that starting the day with the car pre-warmed (or -cooled) and a full battery is a wonderful perk of EV ownership

3) be sure that the MYP's general ride quality is acceptable to your significant other. It's nothing like as stiff as an X3M Competition, but it's also not as cushy as something like an X3 30i or Q5.

4) ignore both the virulent anti-Tesla and the "Tesla can do no wrong" commentary. The cars are generally built well and owners are happier with them than the owners of most other vehicles.

When do you plan to test-drive one?

[BMWfan2006]

I've been out of the M3 comp for about 2 months. Thought I'd miss it. I don't. I've been a long time BMW fan, however the performance of the Tesla 3 is ridiculous. 30K cheaper too.

[IVM3]

Originally Posted by Liquid2.0T

Can't keep both (technically could, would just be really irresponsible ��) so I need to pick one. M3 is coming off lease, but it's just been such a great car that it's difficult to give up for something else in the price range. Main reason for considering the MYP is the 13 month old and realistically, just getting some first hand experience with a capable EV.

My advice is to not get a different car because of your toddler. I made that mistake once. The M3 is plenty of room for a kid. The way I think of it is that the days of owning a high performance ICE vehicle are likely numbered, and I will miss the sound of the engine. Might as well continue to enjoy it as long as I can. I missed the engine sound and gear shifts when I drove a model S.

[BMWfan2006]

Originally Posted by IVM3

My advice is to not get a different car because of your toddler. I made that mistake once. The M3 is plenty of room for a kid. The way I think of it is that the days of owning a high performance ICE vehicle are likely numbered, and I will miss the sound of the engine. Might as well continue to enjoy it as long as I can. I missed the engine sound and gear shifts when I drove a model S.

The one thing I miss is the rapid and hard gear change which made the car feel as if it were popping a wheelie.

[Humdizzle]

New review by savagegeese:

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

New review by savagegeese:

I don’t understand what people find interesting/appealing about this guy’s “reviews”...

[milk242]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

I don’t understand what people find interesting/appealing about this guy’s “reviews”...

Lol, that's how I feel about every review video. The only opinion that matters is your own when it comes to purchases.

Anyway, to add to this thread, I've been enjoying my model 3 performance thoroughly, especially the auto pilot. I still have my M3 so when I miss the engine and exhaust, I drive that, but my model 3 has become my daily. Thinking about replacing the M3 with an R8 to get the best combo.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

You're not crazy bc EVs are the future and Tesla's are at the cutting edge of that future.

Having lived with both cars long term (F80 going on 5 years and Model 3 a full year next month), I would say if you can keep the F80 and add the Tesla you'd have the best of both. One cannot replace the other. They are different but together make a very versatile pair of cars. It's similar to how a FI car cannot compare to a NA in the way the engine feels and drives, the same could be said with going EV vs ICE.

100% agree with gas + EV pair.

Disagree on f80 + model 3. IMHO switch out the f80 for a 2 seats sports car like gt4 or z06.

Or at least a lower to the ground commuter type sporty car like my old 911 turbo

[kyrix1st]

Tesla is laterally unstable at the limit, snaps off in the corners due to funky torque vectoring (cannot mimic well the sublime limited slip differential behaviors of M cars. Does it even have that feature?) but makes up with straight line acceleration.

Not my cup of tea. Taycan would be my go to choice for electric cars.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Tesla is laterally unstable at the limit, snaps off in the corners due to funky torque vectoring (cannot mimic well the sublime limited slip differential behaviors of M cars. Does it even have that feature?) but makes up with straight line acceleration.

Not my cup of tea. Taycan would be my go to choice for electric cars.

What settings did you use. If you had the regen on the normal (strong) setting, a light lift throttle mid corner will have much more effect than you expected

No model 3 does not have mechanical lsd from factory. You can get aftermarket

If I had $200k budget I’d keep my model 3 and get a lambo, not a taycan, but kudos to you shopping in that price range

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

What settings did you use. If you had the regen on the normal (strong) setting, a light lift throttle mid corner will have much more effect than you expected

No model 3 does not have mechanical lsd from factory. You can get aftermarket

If I had $200k budget I’d keep my model 3 and get a lambo, not a taycan, but kudos to you shopping in that price range

No need to go to $200k range. Taycan 4S does the job more than enough at 100-120k range.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

No need to go to $200k range. Taycan 4S does the job more than enough at 100-120k range.

A Taycan 4S at $100k is a very stripped and has the smaller battery with less range. Even at $120k you're really only getting a larger battery, seats heaters and power folding mirrors. I drove a $160k Taycan Turbo and according to the sales guy it was "barely optioned."

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

A Taycan 4S at $100k is a very stripped and has the smaller battery with less range. Even at $120k you're really only getting a larger battery, seats heaters and power folding mirrors. I drove a $160k Taycan Turbo and according to the sales guy it was "barely optioned."

Not true. I will not trust EV for long trips ever (only increases by 14kwh for 6 grand, no chance) so I would rather get a nice burgundy interior, PTV plus & sport chrono with a bunch of convenience options. I have subzero interest for autonomous driving in a Porsche, so none of the ACCs are needed.

Check my build: http://www.porsche-code.com/PMR1YUV3

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Not true. I will not trust EV for long trips ever (only increases by 14kwh for 6 grand, no chance) so I would rather get a nice burgundy interior, PTV plus & sport chrono with a bunch of convenience options. I have subzero interest for autonomous driving in a Porsche, so none of the ACCs are needed.

Check my build: http://www.porsche-code.com/PMR1YUV3

My statement still stands, at $105k which is the base 4S, this car is missing a ton of desirable options. With the larger battery that's already $112k. The Taycan will never be a value leader. For $120k that's loaded E63S and M5C money, both of which base are with the 4S' starting price and still include more standard kit. If you get rid of the big battery, like in your spec, there is room to play with options, but that big battery is a very preferable option, not just for road trips, but to actually drive this car as a sports sedan.

The whole reason one would buy a Taycan over a Tesla is for the driving feel, however when pushing the car and driving it harder through backroads and higher speeds, range drops fast. My test drive saw the range drop by double the actual mileage I put on the car when driving it spiritedly. And 3rd party chargers are not easily found at least on the east coast right now, so charging the car is more of an at home situation, and most brands do not recommend charging to 100%. If I wanted to take this car into the mountains and drive it on some great backroads, I'm not sure how the range would fare, and it would worry me as the trip, while not long distance, covers enough miles to make it a hassle, and the constant elevation changes, high speeds and sweeping curves may have too much effect on the range.

Also, as a sports sedan, that performance package very much helps the handling, as the car without PDCC and RWS along with PTV and Sport Chrono, feels very heavy given its 5600lb curb weight. RWS and PDCC really help out the suspension and rear end, helping this big car move much easier. 20 inch wheels are also much preferable as the 19 inch spec look very economy like in person due to the fat tires. Moonroof is a nice option, as the cabin is a coffin with a small greenhouse. Adaptive cruise control in EV's can also be very helpful at range management and efficiency.

After driving the Taycan I just did not come away that impressed with the car, and I really love brand, but for a Porsche it lacks the feedback I want from the steering and brakes, its too heavy, overpriced, the transmission clunks often into second gear, the practicality and space is lacking, the interior is not Porsche's best and the tech is clumsy at best. If I'm paying over $100k for a Porsche, I want there to be an engine in the back or middle, but that's just my opinion. Its lacks too much on both the EV and Sports Sedan end of the spectrum for my liking. I eagerly will await the second generation and Macan EV to see if they improve my criticisms.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

My statement still stands, at $105k which is the base 4S, this car is missing a ton of desirable options. With the larger battery that's already $112k. The Taycan will never be a value leader. For $120k that's loaded E63S and M5C money, both of which base are with the 4S' starting price and still include more standard kit. If you get rid of the big battery, like in your spec, there is room to play with options, but that big battery is a very preferable option, not just for road trips, but to actually drive this car as a sports sedan.

The whole reason one would buy a Taycan over a Tesla is for the driving feel, however when pushing the car and driving it harder through backroads and higher speeds, range drops fast. My test drive saw the range drop by double the actual mileage I put on the car when driving it spiritedly. And 3rd party chargers are not easily found at least on the east coast right now, so charging the car is more of an at home situation, and most brands do not recommend charging to 100%. If I wanted to take this car into the mountains and drive it on some great backroads, I'm not sure how the range would fare, and it would worry me as the trip, while not long distance, covers enough miles to make it a hassle, and the constant elevation changes, high speeds and sweeping curves may have too much effect on the range.

Also, as a sports sedan, that performance package very much helps the handling, as the car without PDCC and RWS along with PTV and Sport Chrono, feels very heavy given its 5600lb curb weight. RWS and PDCC really help out the suspension and rear end, helping this big car move much easier. 20 inch wheels are also much preferable as the 19 inch spec look very economy like in person due to the fat tires. Moonroof is a nice option, as the cabin is a coffin with a small greenhouse. Adaptive cruise control in EV's can also be very helpful at range management and efficiency.

After driving the Taycan I just did not come away that impressed with the car, and I really love brand, but for a Porsche it lacks the feedback I want from the steering and brakes, its too heavy, overpriced, the transmission clunks often into second gear, the practicality and space is lacking, the interior is not Porsche's best and the tech is clumsy at best. If I'm paying over $100k for a Porsche, I want there to be an engine in the back or middle, but that's just my opinion. Its lacks too much on both the EV and Sports Sedan end of the spectrum for my liking. I eagerly will await the second generation and Macan EV to see if they improve my criticisms.

P car is rarely a value leader.. although it depends on where your values are at. Like I said, here I am comparing an EV to another EV. I will not buy a Tesla for the same reason that I would choose the latter should one consider to drive a Corolla for the time being or walk and save before he/she buys an M3.

An electric car for me is never going to give the raw feeling of ICE cars (not for the forseeable future) so my expectations are different. As long as the car goes well for city driving, shows hints of brilliance in momentum driving, have good interior quality and ergonomics and look good, that is all I need. Tesla falls short in much of these subjective categories.

Originally Posted by stein_325i

... the interior is not Porsche's best and the tech is clumsy at best.

Perhaps you have not seen or experienced the full leather/natural leather interior of Porsche? They are vastly different in feel and quality from the partial leather that most showrooms offer for a test drive.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Perhaps you have not seen or experienced the full leather/natural leather interior of Porsche? They are vastly different in feel and quality from the partial leather that most showrooms offer for a test drive.

The issue isn't with the finer grade of leathers (although the standard interior is not befitting the price tag) but rather just areas that are covered in harder plastic (regardless of leather type) such as the center console, b-pillars, etc. that shouldn't be, as well as the excessive use of cheap black plastic. I also preferred the 991 style switchgear and steering wheel, and more physical controls would have been nice, both screens are very distracting and counterintuitive, the gauge cluster is beautiful though.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

P car is rarely a value leader.. although it depends on where your values are at. Like I said, here I am comparing an EV to another EV. I will not buy a Tesla for the same reason that I would choose the latter should one consider to drive a Corolla for the time being or walk and save before he/she buys an M3.

An electric car for me is never going to give the raw feeling of ICE cars (not for the forseeable future) so my expectations are different. As long as the car goes well for city driving, shows hints of brilliance in momentum driving, have good interior quality and ergonomics and look good, that is all I need. Tesla falls short in much of these subjective categories.



Perhaps you have not seen or experienced the full leather/natural leather interior of Porsche? They are vastly different in feel and quality from the partial leather that most showrooms offer for a test drive.

Hey man, if you want to pay $120k to get a taycan 4s instead of $60k model 3P, despite the Taycan 4S being slower, lesser range and 1000lb heavier, that’s totally your choice.

Like I said earlier, props to you that your daily commuter is in that price class. It’s like commuting in a Vantage. Boss!

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Hey man, if you want to pay $120k to get a taycan 4s instead of $60k model 3P, despite the Taycan 4S being slower, lesser range and 1000lb heavier, that’s totally your choice.

Like I said earlier, props to you that your daily commuter is in that price class. It’s like commuting in a Vantage. Boss!

I have a hard time believing that Tesla is faster around a track. Its claimed nurburgring "record" is in fact a BTG time which puts right around a stock E36 M3's back in the 90s. Taycan Turbo S is just 2 seconds off 991 GT3 in Hockeinheim and the 4S is lightest of the Taycan bunch. I will not drive any car that squirms in corners like Tesla (not a beautiful slide like M4s, just pure lack of chassis balance and control).

And hey, Vantage might be in similar price range but Taycan is about 4 times more practical and economical and likely more reliable by about ten fold. In 7 years of 958 Diesel ownership, there hasn't been a single issue with the car being daily driven and I expect that quality to continue with Mission-E.

[Liquid2.0T]

Originally Posted by Liquid2.0T

Am I crazy for wanting a Tesla Model Y performance once my lease is up on my F80? I'm super interested to get some EV experience and I now have a 13 month old and we will be planning for a 2nd soon. The F80 is super quick (some bolt-ons) but I'm almost turning 40 and I think I may need to tone it down a bit. Plus the G80 is not something I want at the moment.

Will I experience instant regret picking up the MYP coming from an F80?

Well, I did it. Blue/white MYP. No ragrats so far. Fit and finish is no where near the Germans but it's pretty good.

Thinking I will pay this thing off and then find a used 991 or 992 as a toy.