Track forum general chit chat

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Originally Posted by MaX PL

What is everyone preferred tool or method for swapping pads?

I used to use a flat had to pry my pads, damaging my calipers, and then swapped to simply using my hands to compress the pads against the pistons which worked very well.

With my new brakes, I just attempted the hand method and had no success, and won't be using a flat head method to damage these calipers.

Any suggestions for the best tool for both 6 and 4 piston calipers?

I use the old pad to pry back the postons with the rotor as the fulcrum. Try opening the brake fluid reservoir which makes compressing the pistons easier.

Some folks use a pad spreader but I find it a bit clumsy.

[MaX PL]

Originally Posted by D_SheerDrivingPleasure

I use the old pad to pry back the postons with the rotor as the fulcrum. Try opening the brake fluid reservoir which makes compressing the pistons easier.

Some folks use a pad spreader but I find it a bit clumsy.

Thanks. Just tried opening the reservoir and no success. Prying against the rotor isn't an option on this brake setup as the pad is flush with the outside of the rotor.

Honestly not sure what to do other than using my old flat head method, but I'll wait for others to chime in.

[MaX PL]

In more bad news, just decided to check my suspension reservoir pressures.

FL 0
RL 25
FR 250
RR 225

*All pressures with the car on the ground. This may potentially be related to my tire issues.

I guess I'll lift the car up as it says to do this with shock fully extended, drop pressures on the right to around 200, and fill the left with compressed air and drive to an air supply place to refill with nitrogen.

Could the dampeners have sustained damage with so little pressure?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by MaX PL

In more bad news, just decided to check my suspension reservoir pressures.

FL 0
RL 25
FR 250
RR 225

*All pressures with the car on the ground. This may potentially be related to my tire issues.

I guess I'll lift the car up as it says to do this with shock fully extended, drop pressures on the right to around 200, and fill the left with compressed air and drive to an air supply place to refill with nitrogen.

Could the dampeners have sustained damage with so little pressure?

oh wow. That is not good. How is that possible? MCS/BW would have to speak to damage, but my 2017 set still doesn't lose air

[MaX PL]

Yeh I plan to call MCS tomorrow, but I may have overreacted.

From what I can tell these things hold very little gas. Duh, they're small. When I was putting the shock inflator tool on, I definitely lost gas on the FL. Didn't seem like much at the time, but when I went to drop the FR pressure, a small release brought the pressure down by about half. So I likely I just released all the air in FL on my own, which only took about 3 seconds to do on these canisters, and panicked when I found it at 0.

Only one that concerns me is the RL at 25 psi. I definitely had the tool on properly when checking that one and didn't lose air. I'll be filling that one up and monitoring for a week to see if it's leaking air.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by MaX PL

Could the dampeners have sustained damage with so little pressure?

The purpose of the gas pressure is to support the oil column to prevent cavitation as the piston moves through it. I don't think it's likely any damage was done with too low/no gas pressure. You probably didn't have very consistent damping with under-gassed dampers though.

[MaX PL]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

The purpose of the gas pressure is to support the oil column to prevent cavitation as the piston moves through it. I don't think it's likely any damage was done with too low/no gas pressure. You probably didn't have very consistent damping with under-gassed dampers though.

Awesome. Thanks for the response.

They would likely have had a disclaimer to never run without pressure or risk damaging the dampeners if the possibility of damage existed.

[MaX PL]

Alright well I talked to a bunch of people today...

MCS, Bimmerworld, Dyson Racing, and a bunch of useless local auto shops.

Started with Wyatt at MCS. He basically told me that in 90% of cases where they find a reservoir losing pressure, its because the installer did not properly reinstall the schrader valve on the canister side. He was a bit more descriptive with this, so I cant add too much detail, but he essentially told me to check the torque on the nut holding the schrader valve and to mark it with a paint pen. He then told me to repressurize with nitrogen and monitor for a week for a leak. I then questioned him why I was only maximizing reservoir pressure at 100psi when pressurizing with compressed air(before driving to a nitrogen supplier), and he explained why I was finding that which was helpful; essentially that my home compressor can't provide pressure beyond that which I confirmed as my compressor maxes at 135psi. He did state that yes, cavitation may occur when running too low of a pressure, and damage may occur to seals, etc. Not great news considering I've done 6 track days on this setup the past few months plus street driving.

I also asked him about spring lengths and rates and he gave his input, but directed me to Bimmerworld for specifics as they've tested just about every setup on their street/test cars. He did state that he advises against a 5" front spring and that he sees tons of F80 guys running 5" front springs but that they're likely coil binding.

Secondly, I spoke with Josh at Bimmerworld. He agreed with Wyatt regarding 5" springs to some extent. He suggested running more spacer, which for me is not an option as my 94" studs are already maxed out with a 20mm spacer, but then suggested trying the 5" to see how it goes. They both basically told me I'll be at the limit of the spring before coil binding with this setup. My new 5" springs arrived today so I'll be trying them soon.
I also asked Josh about my reservoir pressure issues and he backed what Wyatt suggested in that I should pressurize and monitor, so I'll do that for now. Hopefully I'm okay, and if not, I'll send the rear left to MCS for a rebuild/assessment, which will be a hassle to do.

Josh also told me that, as another poster mentioned, the thrust bearings on my dampener assembly were not installed correctly. I should only have one resin and one steel sheet at the bottom of the main spring, and not have another set at the top of the main spring or top of the helper as my installer did. Collars > White Resin Sheet > Steel Sheet > Main Spring. Do not install the sheets elsewhere in the assembly.

As far as compressing pads on my Alcon BBK, he advised using a spreader tool as thats what they use. He did not have any input as to why I was having issues so I guess I'll be getting a spreader tool.

Between these conversations I was calling around a bunch of places to find somewhere I can repressurize with nitrogen. No one had the option to do it and everyone directed me to Dyson Racing which is local to me. I called them a bunch of times with no response, and then decided to drive over during lunch to ask around.

Well as it turns out, they have tons of nitrogen and tons of amazing race cars. I was toured around by a very smart guy, possibly their lead tech or lead engineer, but ultimately they wouldn't fill up my canisters due to insurance. Had the system been off the car he would have done it. They only have two customers, both of which are insured, with one owning a Wolf and the other a 2014 winning LMP car. He's the lead on the LMP car and showed me a bunch of amazing things. I then saw both of their Trans Am cars for this year along with next years Trans Am prototype. That car is running my exact Alcon BBK which I found awesome. So much cool tech on all of these cars.

Oh, I also saw blue caliper boxes on the floor in their support trailer and asked what those were. Opens the box and they're nickel plated Alcon calipers, much bigger than my BBK calipers. Full bridge too.

Really thankful for being shown around at Dyson. I'm glad they're doing well this year. Their team is definitely on top of things based on what I saw.
They had a sign that read "Wipe your shoes" at the entrance of the shop which you don't see at most places, let alone auto shops.

Anyway, the day ended with a welding supplier telling me they'd fill my canisters no problem. I initially called there in the morning and was told I couldn't use or rent any equipment, which I guess was a good thing as it led me to Dyson and everything I saw there.

FYI, the welding place only charges 18 cents a day to rent a tank which I find odd. Must be some sort of regulation.

[ninekrpm]

consider buying a small nitro tank and regulator ($300 for the setup). costs me $30 to fill up every year or just shy of that.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by MaX PL

What is everyone preferred tool or method for swapping pads?

I used to use a flat had to pry my pads, damaging my calipers, and then swapped to simply using my hands to compress the pads against the pistons which worked very well.

With my new brakes, I just attempted the hand method and had no success, and won't be using a flat head method to damage these calipers.

Any suggestions for the best tool for both 6 and 4 piston calipers?

I used my fingers and then lever'd the pad at the ears.

[SYT_Shadow]

To spread the pistons out I use the Girodisc tool. I don't love it, but it's better than the rest. By now mine has been modified and looks like a mad max version of the original Giro tool, significantly strengthen etc.

A word of advice, open the bleed nipples when compressing the pistons.

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

To spread the pistons out I use the Girodisc tool. I don't love it, but it's better than the rest. By now mine has been modified and looks like a mad max version of the original Giro tool, significantly strengthen etc.

A word of advice, open the bleed nipples when compression the pistons.

Why would you open the bleed nipples on the caliper and maybe get air in the system? Or did you mean the loosen the reservoir cap?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by sly1types

Why would you open the bleed nipples on the caliper and maybe get air in the system? Or did you mean the loosen the reservoir cap?

if you just open a nipple without pressing anything, gravity starts to empty the upper reservoir. Air doesn't enter the system. Try it.

Anyway, air enters the system even less if you open the nipples and compress the pistons, as that pushes fluid out of the brakes.

In a nutshell, I want to mini-bleed the brakes when I change pads. The fluid right in the caliper has seen the highest temp and may have some debris on it, so I want it out

[vrptstyly]

Man, sry to hear that jfritz27, and with the family present. Good thing for track insurance, excellent piece of mind once you know your safe, what a different experience that would be without it. Good luck to you!!

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by vrptstyly

Man, sry to hear that jfritz27, and with the family present. Good thing for track insurance, excellent piece of mind once you know your safe, what a different experience that would be without it. Good luck to you!!

Thanks man (and Shadow) -- appreciate it.

Still waiting on the damn adjuster to show up....

[RugbyBro]

Obviously I've never driven VIR but seen lots of laps from C&D as a reference point. BW running 1:56 is pretty nuts to think about.

[SYT_Shadow]

[QUOTE=RugbyBro;29136522]Obviously I've never driven VIR but seen lots of laps from C&D as a reference point. BW running 1:56 is pretty nuts to think about.


It's really fast. Our GTS did a 2:01.2 rolling lap with us driving. Our CS did 2:00 with James driving.

The GTMore has to get a few seconds faster still in that exact configuration, it's half raining during that record attempt!

[DRLane]

[QUOTE=SYT_Shadow;29138037]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Obviously I've never driven VIR but seen lots of laps from C&D as a reference point. BW running 1:56 is pretty nuts to think about.


It's really fast. Our GTS did a 2:01.2 rolling lap with us driving. Our CS did 2:00 with James driving.

The GTMore has to get a few seconds faster still in that exact configuration, it's half raining during that record attempt!

Huh, If you've never driven it, what's the :01.2 rolling lap? And is rolling lap like the theoretical or actual?

Anything under 2 is super fast at VIR?

[SYT_Shadow]

[QUOTE=DRLane;29140276]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Huh, If you've never driven it, what's the :01.2 rolling lap? And is rolling lap like the theoretical or actual?

Anything under 2 is super fast at VIR?

It's the fastest lap between any two points in the track. Caused in this case by someone blocking the car in the last turn. So annoying.

For laptimes: GT4 class cars in IMSA with pro drivers will do a fastest lap 1:55 or so.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Huh, If you've never driven it, what's the :01.2 rolling lap? And is rolling lap like the theoretical or actual?

Anything under 2 is super fast at VIR?

The other thing I should mention is this is the full course configuration and C&D runs the grand course configuration - but you can watch them side by side up until the back straight. I did this with the G80 xDrive lap, which is ridiculously fast in and of it self, but this GTMore was leaving it in the dust all the way through the point at which the layouts diverge.

From everything I've watched under 2 min on the full config is very, very fast

[SYT_Shadow]

[QUOTE=DRLane;29140276]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Huh, If you've never driven it, what's the :01.2 rolling lap? And is rolling lap like the theoretical or actual?

Anything under 2 is super fast at VIR?

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

The other thing I should mention is this is the full course configuration and C&D runs the grand course configuration - but you can watch them side by side up until the back straight. I did this with the G80 xDrive lap, which is ridiculously fast in and of it self, but this GTMore was leaving it in the dust all the way through the point at which the layouts diverge.

From everything I've watched under 2 min on the full config is very, very fast

That's a good point as well. This is not the VIR Car and Driver Lightning Lap course. This is the normal, IMSA course.

The Lightning Lap course goes into the tiny, ridiculous infield that no regular organization runs. So it creates times that are not comparable to anything else. When we ran into the C&D team testing last year we gave them that feedback...
An added bonus if C&D used the regular course then we could see where we match up vs their cars, and also see how modern cars stack up to GT4 and GT3 class cars in IMSA racing. Instead, it's a comparison to nothing at all.

Another issue with the C&D testing is all manufacturers are invited to show up to support. So brand A shows up with a trailer full of tires and swaps tires every two laps? Acceptable! And if brand B does not, then they just run what the car comes with and hope for the best. There's a pretty big chasm between running all as crap tires and new ones

[RugbyBro]

[QUOTE=SYT_Shadow;29140464]

Originally Posted by DRLane

That's a good point as well. This is not the VIR Car and Driver Lightning Lap course. This is the normal, IMSA course.

The Lightning Lap course goes into the tiny, ridiculous infield that no regular organization runs. So it creates times that are not comparable to anything else. When we ran into the C&D team testing last year we gave them that feedback...
An added bonus if C&D used the regular course then we could see where we match up vs their cars, and also see how modern cars stack up to GT4 and GT3 class cars in IMSA racing. Instead, it's a comparison to nothing at all.

Another issue with the C&D testing is all manufacturers are invited to show up to support. So brand A shows up with a trailer full of tires and swaps tires every two laps? Acceptable! And if brand B does not, then they just run what the car comes with and hope for the best. There's a pretty big chasm between running all as crap tires and new ones

Good call outs! I've typically only seen the full/regular configuration as I've followed a lot of the BW content over the years. Even noticed a certain CS pop up on a VIR video.