M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

Thanks. There seems to be a lot of talk on the forums about waiting out the 4680 cells and new casting instead of buying now. Any thoughts on that?

Speculation is rampant with respect to the 4680 cells and the new casting. I’ve heard about both for over a year. I don’t subscribe to the theory of waiting for what Tesla may or may not do. They’re incredibly unpredictable, you don’t know what’s going to happen, when, or if it will happen at all. Not to mention, continuous improvement is the game so there will always be a “new thing” you will miss out on whenever you do purchase. If you have a need and/or a desire to buy a MYP, my advice is to go for it. Life comes at you fast and it’s best to enjoy the fruits of your labor while you can.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

…If you have a need and/or a desire to buy a MYP, my advice is to go for it. Life comes at you fast and it’s best to enjoy the fruits of your labor while you can.

AMEN!!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

For you guys saying that there isn’t a better car in this segment, splain. How so? I’m curious

for a 5 seats family car that is 95-100% street only, I definitely think there isn’t a better car. 0-100mph the acceleration potential is great, the driver assist features are best that’s available today, and you can do stuff like watch tv while getting takeout

for max happiness, pair model 3P or model YP with a gas sports car!!

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

for a 5 seats family car that is 95-100% street only, I definitely think there isn’t a better car. 0-100mph the acceleration potential is great, the driver assist features are best that’s available today, and you can do stuff like watch tv while getting takeout

for max happiness, pair model 3P or model YP with a gas sports car!!

Do you guys know how the model Y does on Canyon runs? I doubt I’m gonna track my cars as much anymore but I do like to go on Canyon Drive with my friends early in the morning.

I think I actually like the looks of the model y more than the model three

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Do you guys know how the model Y does on Canyon runs? I doubt I’m gonna track my cars as much anymore but I do like to go on Canyon Drive with my friends early in the morning.

I think I actually like the looks of the model y more than the model three

The Model Y is a taller, wider Model 3, so it's not going to handle as well as the 3 - physics, after all...

If you don't want/need an SUV, the 3 is the better vehicle, and will keep up with any car you care to mention in the twisties aside from 2-seat high powered sports cars. What it might give up to its Euro ICE competitors in absolute cornering speed it more than makes up for in corner-exit and straight-line speed....

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Do you guys know how the model Y does on Canyon runs? I doubt I’m gonna track my cars as much anymore but I do like to go on Canyon Drive with my friends early in the morning.

I think I actually like the looks of the model y more than the model three

A relative of mine works for Tesla and brought me a Model Y Performance to test drive and push on some tight and windy canyon roads.

The car is surprisingly capable, but not much of an "experience." The low Cg keeps it feeling tight, and the body side to side body motions are well controlled. It was less than I was expecting for an SUV. I was able to one-pedal drive it for the most part, and Tesla has done a good job of really refining the throttle to brake transition to keep it smooth and intuitive.

The big downfall for canyon driving with the Model Y Performance was the lack of communication the car has with the driver. It wasn't terribly difficult to get the front end to understeer/push, however normally you get that feedback through the steering wheel, and it was a really odd sensation not getting any of that there, but instead having to see it visually and not feeling it at all. It was like playing a video game. Likewise the car didn't seem to communicate through the seat very well either. This means that in order to start to get some of the experience you're looking for when doing a canyon run you really have to get up there in speed. Below that things are a bit sterile.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

The Model Y is a taller, wider Model 3, so it's not going to handle as well as the 3 - physics, after all...

If you don't want/need an SUV, the 3 is the better vehicle, and will keep up with any car you care to mention in the twisties aside from 2-seat high powered sports cars. What it might give up to its Euro ICE competitors in absolute cornering speed it more than makes up for in corner-exit and straight-line speed....

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

A relative of mine works for Tesla and brought me a Model Y Performance to test drive and push on some tight and windy canyon roads.

The car is surprisingly capable, but not much of an "experience." The low Cg keeps it feeling tight, and the body side to side body motions are well controlled. It was less than I was expecting for an SUV. I was able to one-pedal drive it for the most part, and Tesla has done a good job of really refining the throttle to brake transition to keep it smooth and intuitive.

The big downfall for canyon driving with the Model Y Performance was the lack of communication the car has with the driver. It wasn't terribly difficult to get the front end to understeer/push, however normally you get that feedback through the steering wheel, and it was a really odd sensation not getting any of that there, but instead having to see it visually and not feeling it at all. It was like playing a video game. Likewise the car didn't seem to communicate through the seat very well either. This means that in order to start to get some of the experience you're looking for when doing a canyon run you really have to get up there in speed. Below that things are a bit sterile.

GREAT! Thank you for the comparisons and advice.

I think the best step for me now would be to turo both models for a couple of days and really see how it performs.

[Goruond]

LCIs are designed at the same time as the original cars are released and they are just mostly cosmetic changes with some technical updates thrown in for good measure.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

GREAT! Thank you for the comparisons and advice.

I think the best step for me now would be to turo both models for a couple of days and really see how it performs.

If you're thinking of buying the "Performance" version of either, make sure you rent that same version - they're different enough from the lesser models to really affect the experience.

Also think about when/where you'll charge the cars - even a 110V socket will give you a few miles of charge (4-6 miles per hour) if plugged in overnight but if you plan to do any exploring, you'll likely want to visit a Supercharger somewhere along the way.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

If you're thinking of buying the "Performance" version of either, make sure you rent that same version - they're different enough from the lesser models to really affect the experience.

Also think about when/where you'll charge the cars - even a 110V socket will give you a few miles of charge (4-6 miles per hour) if plugged in overnight but if you plan to do any exploring, you'll likely want to visit a Supercharger somewhere along the way.

Thanks for the insight. I actually have a neighbor who just traded in his 2009 c63 amg for a M3p and this is what prompted my search. One drive of his car has me hooked but I need to really drive it to see if it’s fun and not just some weird honeymoon.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Thanks for the insight. I actually have a neighbor who just traded in his 2009 c63 amg for a M3p and this is what prompted my search. One drive of his car has me hooked but I need to really drive it to see if it’s fun and not just some weird honeymoon.

I think we have discussed fun cars a lot over the years on these forums. And I’ve put out an open offer to come track my cars. Offer still stands

For what it’s worth, a friend has a 991.2 base and when we drove in the canyons I left my 996TT and used m3p to prove a point, and I didn’t regret it one bit

Looking to add cup2, and suspension mods to the model3 down the line but holding out for now since it’s my family car

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Thanks for the insight. I actually have a neighbor who just traded in his 2009 c63 amg for a M3p and this is what prompted my search. One drive of his car has me hooked but I need to really drive it to see if it’s fun and not just some weird honeymoon.

I'm afraid there is no weird honeymoon. The instant torque at "throttle tip-in" is incredible and never gets old. The anti-EV crowd will always find a reason to discredit the performance. I know because I was in that crowd once upon a time.

The M3P has its limitations on the track just like any other car but when properly set up, very capable. If you're looking to track it, there are a few folks here who have tracked a M3P heavily. MasterC17 is the first who comes to mind.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

I'm afraid there is no weird honeymoon. The instant torque at "throttle tip-in" is incredible and never gets old. The anti-EV crowd will always find a reason to discredit the performance. I know because I was in that crowd once upon a time.

The M3P has its limitations on the track just like any other car but when properly set up, very capable. If you're looking to track it, there are a few folks here who have tracked a M3P heavily. MasterC17 is the first who comes to mind.

Nice post! I agree

One area that I think it hard for m3p to overcome limitations is highway rolls, 1/2 mile, vmax type use case

Whenever I do a 60-130+ pull in m3p, I do miss the lighter weight, higher power levels and gearing of the gas cars.

If that’s a really important use case for someone I’d say stick with gas or get the new model S that traps 150+mph

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Nice post! I agree

One area that I think it hard for m3p to overcome limitations is highway rolls, 1/2 mile, vmax type use case

Whenever I do a 60-130+ pull in m3p, I do miss the lighter weight, higher power levels and gearing of the gas cars…

60-110 is still pretty spicy in the Model 3P - it’s over 110 where it really runs out of pull. Most street cars spend 99+% of their time at speeds where the 3P is wicked quick, and its instant, zero-lag response is something that no ICE vehicle can ever match.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

60-110 is still pretty spicy in the Model 3P - it’s over 110 where it really runs out of pull. Most street cars spend 99+% of their time at speeds where the 3P is wicked quick, and its instant, zero-lag response is something that no ICE vehicle can ever match.

Mid to high 11s at 117mph is a very solid for family sedan but leaves a lot of room for improvement in acceleration potential

I’m just trying to be honest here, high speed pulls is the use case where my model 3P leaves me wanting more

[Humdizzle]

i think eventually the new plaid type motors will trick down to the M3P. The plaid's 100-150 time is faster than its 60-130 time which is kinda nuts.

i'm not up to date on the engineering, so maybe someone can explain... these new plaid motors have a carbon sleeve and can spin up to 20,000 rpm and apparently thats why it has a ridiculous top end pull without needing a gearbox (like the 2-speed taycan).

so in theory would that type of motor, albiet slightly downgraded, for the M3P result in mid 11 1/4 mile and continue the same relentless pull up to 150 ?

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i think eventually the new plaid type motors will trick down to the M3P. The plaid's 100-150 time is faster than its 60-130 time which is kinda nuts.

i'm not up to date on the engineering, so maybe someone can explain... these new plaid motors have a carbon sleeve and can spin up to 20,000 rpm and apparently thats why it has a ridiculous top end pull without needing a gearbox (like the 2-speed taycan).

so in theory would that type of motor, albiet slightly downgraded, for the M3P result in mid 11 1/4 mile and continue the same relentless pull up to 150 ?

I thought it was the third motor that made it fast?

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

I thought it was the third motor that made it fast?

thats part of it. but the m3p and all teslas before were plagued with the slow top end pull because the motors just could not spin fast enough. remember there is no gearbox and its more of a direct drive (motor connected directly to drive wheels).

from motortrend:

The Plaid's single front and twin rear motors are essentially modified versions of those found in the Model 3/Model Y. However, in the Plaid they feature novel carbon-fiber sleeves that allow the motor rotors to spin at 20,000 rpm to achieve the car's claimed 200-mph top speed without punching through the stator. These carbon sleeves, Tesla says, make a more complex two-speed transmission like the one seen on the Porsche Taycan unnecessary. They also give the Model S Plaid a shockingly linear powerband: Tesla says peak horsepower happens at 80 mph and holds steady all the way to 200 mph (provided you've dropped $4,500 on the optional 21-inch wheels and your car has a yet-to-be-released software update; in its current state the Plaid is limited to 163 mph).

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Mid to high 11s at 117mph is a very solid for family sedan but leaves a lot of room for improvement in acceleration potential

I’m just trying to be honest here, high speed pulls is the use case where my model 3P leaves me wanting more

So maybe get a refreshed Model S LR?

~$80K for 128-130 mph in the 1/4 mile isn't likely to "leave (you) wanting more" high speed pull...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRG6Dp6LyfE

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

So maybe get a refreshed Model S LR?

~$80K for 128-130 mph in the 1/4 mile isn't likely to "leave (you) wanting more" high speed pull...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRG6Dp6LyfE

I appreciate the point you are trying to make and thanks for sharing that info. For someone looking into the m5 type of sedan, 130mph traps is right in the stock m5 ballpark and it looks to be $30k savings vs m5 as well

But $80k for 130mph traps in a raw deal in my books. That’s stock out of box performance of a 15 yr old z06 that’s a mid $20k car all day long these days. Even my current gas car (mild mods 6TT) is not far from that

I’m going to stick with model 3P + <gas car> combo for a while and just take the gasser when it’s time for those pulls. Lol

[jpy1980]

Btw!! I sold my M3 and purchased a Model Y performance! Woohoo!

Now the wait is killing me.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

I'm afraid there is no weird honeymoon. The instant torque at "throttle tip-in" is incredible and never gets old. The anti-EV crowd will always find a reason to discredit the performance. I know because I was in that crowd once upon a time.

The M3P has its limitations on the track just like any other car but when properly set up, very capable. If you're looking to track it, there are a few folks here who have tracked a M3P heavily. MasterC17 is the first who comes to mind.

I actually just saw that you responded to my post in the tesla forums! No wonder your name Sounded familiar. Your post was the impetus to look into buying it! See you in the other forum!