ARMA SPEED
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-17-2015, 03:43 PM   #1
SCOTT26
Major General
SCOTT26's Avatar
4816
Rep
5,756
Posts

Drives: A big F-off German Truck.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WORLDWIDE

iTrader: (0)

BMW M2 CSL [Edit: M4 CSL info]

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
CSL will only be available for the Coupe models.

CSL Concept car will be shown in 2016.

CSL will use the ideas from the hommage such as stuck on but blended in aerodynamics to bring a fresh visual perspective to these more extreme hardcore M cars over standard M cars.

CSL cars will not only be the most extreme variants but will also be used as the innovation test lab to test new and exciting innovation to enhance performance but meeting legislation. That includes variations of Power eDrive that have been developed to enhance and assist performance whilst delivering exceptional sustainability.

CSL cars will be innovative in using lightweight materials, the BMW M4 GTS has its upper body completely fabricated with CFRP. And BMW have done additional developments with parts of the M4 chassis also using CFRP in reference to Motorsport purpose, but it would not be unthinkable for application within a road car.

CSL continues the historic decision to use the then E9 and its Motorsport innovations within conventional road cars. But today the field is much further in terms of advanced innovation not only aimed at performance but also sustainability.

Updated 9/1/15:

The purpose and ability to bring something radical to the performance segment lies within the genes of the CSL Hommage. BMW and BMW M through BMWi are now at an exciting stage even ahead of their competitors to introduce an exciting new linage of CSL remodels evoking the very same reasons they were introduced in the first place to develop Motorsport technology and innovation for the road.

If we look at the M4 GTS its lighter,faster and more precise than the standard car plus it uses very new exciting innovation with Water Injection technology to distinguish it further from the standard M4 Coupe as does the increase in weight reduction innovation and the more direct response of the dynamics.
You might question what purpose for an M4 CSL?

It could use the same ideas but distinguish further by an increase in weight reduction innovation but incorporate some of BMWs latest thinking in getting the best of performance with an e-boost system demonstrated on the CSL Hommage. And that innovation is being tested on M4s today.

As everything begins for Motorsport BMW M have fabricated chassis sections and components out of CFRP including actual wheels and steering wheels as well as areas in the suspension out of CFRP for Motorsport evaluation, it is not impossible to include in a special road car. There is a conceptual lab in Munich that testing various CFRP applications in BMW,Rolls-Royce and even MINI's with some Cooper S models testing a CFRP hood.

The programme I have seen to reflect the creative conception of BMW Ms new strategy starts from Road car - Road Car Special Packet(Competition) - GTS - CSL. Identity is important so that is why there is an evolution for each stage with the CSL using conceptual visual ideas from the CSL Hommage but applying them realistically. It will be the first modern BMW Batmobile. And again its mission is to bring the competitive edge of Motorsport innovation to the road exactly like the E9 set out to do.

Of course this needs further funding to innovate and apply so there will be new but for the first time a BMW X3M and BMW X4M as well as M Performance versions of the BMW X1 and upcoming BMW X2. The forthcoming BMW Z sports car will be positioned like BMWi as a book between the BMWi and BMW M.
__________________
The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
Appreciate 27
      08-17-2015, 04:23 PM   #2
sth519
Second Lieutenant
sth519's Avatar
118
Rep
200
Posts

Drives: M2 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
CSL will only be available for the Coupe models.

CSL Concept car will be shown in 2016.

CSL will use the ideas from the hommage such as stuck on but blended in aerodynamics to bring a fresh visual perspective to these more extreme hardcore M cars over standard M cars.

CSL cars will not only be the most extreme variants but will also be used as the innovation test lab to test new and exciting innovation to enhance performance but meeting legislation. That includes variations of Power eDrive that have been developed to enhance and assist performance whilst delivering exceptional sustainability.

CSL cars will be innovative in using lightweight materials, the BMW M4 GTS has its upper body completely fabricated with CFRP. And BMW have done additional developments with parts of the M4 chassis also using CFRP in reference to Motorsport purpose, but it would not be unthinkable for application within a road car.

CSL continues the historic decision to use the then E9 and its Motorsport innovations within conventional road cars. But today the field is much further in terms of advanced innovation not only aimed at performance but also sustainability.
That was... more specific than I expected.

Since you seem to be in the mood: Any news regarding the regular M2?
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2015, 04:37 PM   #3
Nordkeyz73
Lieutenant
Nordkeyz73's Avatar
United_States
138
Rep
552
Posts

Drives: BMW e90 328i ZSP
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: CT

iTrader: (0)

Guys, it is pretty obvious what is happening at BMW and it's pretty great to be honest. CSL has been confirmed as a hardcore M2 variant a la e46 M3 CSL. The M4 GTS has been confirmed as well, as its concept form is already materialized. Also as to the future of M, electronic energy recovery and power boost augmentation is something to look forward to. Innovation is going to make the future of M, not break it.
__________________
BMW Performance SSK, BMW Performance Blackline Tails, BMW Performance Exhaust, BMW 3-Stage Intake Manifold, AA Stage 3 Tune, AA Headers, Weisslicht LED Halos, Black Kidneys...other small stuff
Appreciate 6
      08-17-2015, 05:19 PM   #4
fuddman
Major
348
Rep
1,394
Posts

Drives: 528-maybe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
CSL [cars] will [be] ....more extreme hardcore M cars over standard M cars.
This has immediate implications for the M4 GTS.
The M4 GTS is already a "hardcore" M over standard M car. So, let's see we are going to see in 2016 the super hardcore M4 GTS CSL, the medium strength M4 GTS (non CSL) and the lo strength M4 (non CSL, non GTS). Hmmm, this scenario doesn't sound right. The M4 GTS seems to be a car hanging around without a reason. The scenario would make more sense if the M4 GTS disappeared, say after 2017. Which means the M4 GTS could be a candidate to be a short run, limited number car.
Just say'in.
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2015, 05:36 PM   #5
SCOTT26
Major General
SCOTT26's Avatar
4816
Rep
5,756
Posts

Drives: A big F-off German Truck.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WORLDWIDE

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
This has immediate implications for the M4 GTS.
The M4 GTS is already a "hardcore" M over standard M car. So, let's see we are going to see in 2016 the super hardcore M4 GTS CSL, the medium strength M4 GTS (non CSL) and the lo strength M4 (non CSL, non GTS). Hmmm, this scenario doesn't sound right. The M4 GTS seems to be a car hanging around without a reason. The scenario would make more sense if the M4 GTS disappeared, say after 2017. Which means the M4 GTS could be a candidate to be a short run, limited number car.
Just say'in.
M4 GTS is a limited car. Its a one-off.
__________________
The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
Appreciate 1
      08-17-2015, 06:02 PM   #6
Bemo
Major
Bemo's Avatar
United_States
1042
Rep
1,090
Posts

Drives: 911.1 GTS | E92M3 LRP Edition
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
This has immediate implications for the M4 GTS.
The M4 GTS is already a "hardcore" M over standard M car. So, let's see we are going to see in 2016 the super hardcore M4 GTS CSL, the medium strength M4 GTS (non CSL) and the lo strength M4 (non CSL, non GTS). Hmmm, this scenario doesn't sound right. The M4 GTS seems to be a car hanging around without a reason. The scenario would make more sense if the M4 GTS disappeared, say after 2017. Which means the M4 GTS could be a candidate to be a short run, limited number car.
Just say'in.
M4 GTS is a limited car. Its a one-off.
When are we getting the M2 CSL and will it be available in the U.S.?
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2015, 06:16 PM   #7
fuddman
Major
348
Rep
1,394
Posts

Drives: 528-maybe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
M4 GTS is a limited car. Its a one-off.
I just never made the connection that the span of time for M4 GTS production depended on the birth of the CSL. A 2016 CSL concept reveal suggests a, somewhat, short M4 GTS production run. Which, I think, makes the M4 GTS a more interesting car.
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2015, 08:59 PM   #8
ORIGIN M.
Banned
3126
Rep
9,206
Posts

Drives: ///M
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Northern Hemisphere

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
CSL will only be available for the Coupe models.

CSL Concept car will be shown in 2016.

CSL will use the ideas from the hommage such as stuck on but blended in aerodynamics to bring a fresh visual perspective to these more extreme hardcore M cars over standard M cars.

CSL cars will not only be the most extreme variants but will also be used as the innovation test lab to test new and exciting innovation to enhance performance but meeting legislation. That includes variations of Power eDrive that have been developed to enhance and assist performance whilst delivering exceptional sustainability.

CSL cars will be innovative in using lightweight materials, the BMW M4 GTS has its upper body completely fabricated with CFRP. And BMW have done additional developments with parts of the M4 chassis also using CFRP in reference to Motorsport purpose, but it would not be unthinkable for application within a road car.

CSL continues the historic decision to use the then E9 and its Motorsport innovations within conventional road cars. But today the field is much further in terms of advanced innovation not only aimed at performance but also sustainability.
Will there be a M2 Convertible ?
Appreciate 1
      08-17-2015, 09:27 PM   #9
M3 Adjuster
Banned
Albania
7857
Rep
11,814
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
CSL will only be available for the Coupe models.

CSL Concept car will be shown in 2016.

CSL will use the ideas from the hommage such as stuck on but blended in aerodynamics to bring a fresh visual perspective to these more extreme hardcore M cars over standard M cars.

CSL cars will not only be the most extreme variants but will also be used as the innovation test lab to test new and exciting innovation to enhance performance but meeting legislation. That includes variations of Power eDrive that have been developed to enhance and assist performance whilst delivering exceptional sustainability.

CSL cars will be innovative in using lightweight materials, the BMW M4 GTS has its upper body completely fabricated with CFRP. And BMW have done additional developments with parts of the M4 chassis also using CFRP in reference to Motorsport purpose, but it would not be unthinkable for application within a road car.

CSL continues the historic decision to use the then E9 and its Motorsport innovations within conventional road cars. But today the field is much further in terms of advanced innovation not only aimed at performance but also sustainability.
Mmmm! Freshly brewed tea !


Sounds like a concept should be popping up about a year from now ... Just like I was thinking
Appreciate 2
      08-17-2015, 09:32 PM   #10
M3 Adjuster
Banned
Albania
7857
Rep
11,814
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by synergist
Anyone contemplated what engine they would throw into a M2 CSL? I would be very surprised if it remained a N55. A 4cyl turbo to keep weight down perhaps? Along with extensive carbon bits that could be very enticing. What are all your thoughts on if the M2 CSL ends up being a hybrid? I personally wouldn't mind a turbo 3 or 4 cyl along side an electric engine... but then how much would it cost? If it ends up being a $100k+ car then I would have no interest, but if it ends up being in the $70-80K, mind you that is 40-50% greater than the M2, I may be able to justify it. Also, are manuals ever tied into these hybrids? I haven't come by one and that would be a deal breaker for me
Personally, I agree.

Extensive CFRP means a super light chassis and one can also go smaller on the motor.

I Would love to see an M2 CSL with a twin turbo 4 cyl S20 that's basically a smaller version of what's going in the new M6 GTR.

I like the use of Edrive options in a car like the CSL hommage
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2015, 09:57 PM   #11
IS3andME
Major
451
Rep
1,167
Posts

Drives: Lexus IS300
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
M4 GTS is a limited car. Its a one-off.
Wait a minute. It is the M4 GTS Concept, and when BMW uses that, it generally means that It is close to production. So, the Concept is a one off, but isn't this going into production? And would it be GTS or CSL in name?
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2015, 10:15 PM   #12
Karmic Man
Major
Karmic Man's Avatar
Australia
1510
Rep
1,481
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: World

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
CSL will only be available for the Coupe models.

CSL Concept car will be shown in 2016.

CSL will use the ideas from the hommage such as stuck on but blended in aerodynamics to bring a fresh visual perspective to these more extreme hardcore M cars over standard M cars.

CSL cars will not only be the most extreme variants but will also be used as the innovation test lab to test new and exciting innovation to enhance performance but meeting legislation. That includes variations of Power eDrive that have been developed to enhance and assist performance whilst delivering exceptional sustainability.

CSL cars will be innovative in using lightweight materials, the BMW M4 GTS has its upper body completely fabricated with CFRP. And BMW have done additional developments with parts of the M4 chassis also using CFRP in reference to Motorsport purpose, but it would not be unthinkable for application within a road car.

CSL continues the historic decision to use the then E9 and its Motorsport innovations within conventional road cars. But today the field is much further in terms of advanced innovation not only aimed at performance but also sustainability.
I like it

Please bring on the CSLs.....M2CSL yum yum
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2015, 10:59 PM   #13
M3 Adjuster
Banned
Albania
7857
Rep
11,814
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
M4 GTS is a limited car. Its a one-off.
Wait a minute. It is the M4 GTS Concept, and when BMW uses that, it generally means that It is close to production. So, the Concept is a one off, but isn't this going into production? And would it be GTS or CSL in name?
M4 GTS to come first - limited production one off model that will likely have a fixed production amount ?

CSL Concept ( perhaps M2 or M4)

If the first CSL concept is the M2 then expect an M4 CSL later, perhaps after an LCI?
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2015, 11:46 PM   #14
fuddman
Major
348
Rep
1,394
Posts

Drives: 528-maybe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
M4 GTS to come first - limited production one off model that will likely have a fixed production amount ?
I don't see any limit on production of the M4 GTS. Production boils down to this: whoever has the money, and wants one, gets one. IMO, that applies until the CSL starts production. At which point, the M4 GTS goes away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
If the first CSL concept is the M2 ...
I do not see the M2 wearing the first CSL badge, because the car does not produce the best profit margin. The M4/M6, IMO, just makes BMW much more money than the M2. And for that reason, I would guess, those two will be first and second to carry the CSL badge. Once that initial "CSL excitement" money is harvested, then the M2 CSL will show up.
That's what my crystal ball sez.
Appreciate 1
MW16M356.50

      08-18-2015, 12:43 AM   #15
M3 Adjuster
Banned
Albania
7857
Rep
11,814
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
M4 GTS to come first - limited production one off model that will likely have a fixed production amount ?
I don't see any limit on production of the M4 GTS. Production boils down to this: whoever has the money, and wants one, gets one. IMO, that applies until the CSL starts production. At which point, the M4 GTS goes away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
If the first CSL concept is the M2 ...
I do not see the M2 wearing the first CSL badge, because the car does not produce the best profit margin. The M4/M6, IMO, just makes BMW much more money than the M2. And for that reason, I would guess, those two will be first and second to carry the CSL badge. Once that initial "CSL excitement" money is harvested, then the M2 CSL will show up.
That's what my crystal ball sez.
go CSL crazy....


LOL


M6 CSL ... $$$$$$ Drool ... Start with the motor from the M6GTR and go from there....
Appreciate 0
      08-18-2015, 08:30 AM   #16
IS3andME
Major
451
Rep
1,167
Posts

Drives: Lexus IS300
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
I don't see any limit on production of the M4 GTS. Production boils down to this: whoever has the money, and wants one, gets one. IMO, that applies until the CSL starts production. At which point, the M4 GTS goes away.



I do not see the M2 wearing the first CSL badge, because the car does not produce the best profit margin. The M4/M6, IMO, just makes BMW much more money than the M2. And for that reason, I would guess, those two will be first and second to carry the CSL badge. Once that initial "CSL excitement" money is harvested, then the M2 CSL will show up.
That's what my crystal ball sez.
Well, CSL stands for "Coupe, Sport, Light", so using the heaviest M coupe, the M6, may not be the best thing to do. Unless they use the M6 GT3 race car, and base something off of that---a road going version. Kinda like how Ferrari made a connection to the 599XX and the 599 GTO. I said kinda.

The CSL concept would work for BMW's smallest or mid sized M coupe---the M2 and M4. But, here is the thing, would a M4 CSL weigh and cost less than a M4 GTS? Where do they fit with one another?
With the M2, you know that the CSL is the next step up.
Appreciate 1
      08-18-2015, 04:22 PM   #17
fuddman
Major
348
Rep
1,394
Posts

Drives: 528-maybe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
......would a M4 CSL weigh and cost less than a M4 GTS? Where do they fit with one another?
The way I see it, the M4 GTS is a temporary car. It's, merely, filling in the time until the SOP of the M4 CSL. The CSL and the M4 GTS have no reason to exist together that I can see (Keep in mind, I'm just some dude out here). So, M4 GTS production will end with the SOP of an M4 CSL, IMO.
M4 CSL weigh less? Possibly. Cost less than the M4 GTS? - No freeking way! CSL cars will be loaded down with expensive BMW "Vision EfficientDynamics" gizmos.
Appreciate 1
      08-30-2015, 01:27 PM   #18
Disturbed
First Lieutenant
Disturbed's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
381
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
BMW likes to keep the M2 and M4 separate.


Agree with you that great patience is needed.

M4 GTS concept now
M2 rollout coming this fall/winter
M4 GTS on sale
M2 on sale - next spring
M4 LCI next summer
M2 GTS concept next fall ?

With the pieces of the M4 GTS SURLEY to be on par (or higher) than the M4 vert, I think BMW is nuts to charge $80k for it (loaded verts are 80-85k so GTS should be close to that). That's base Viper range. Maybe Mopar is nuts to charge so "little" for a hand build, hand painted exotic. For a weekend fun car when prices comes into play. EVEN IF the GTS drops another 50lbs and gains 75hp, it still wouldn't have the same track day weekend bang for the buck of a a viper.

640hp 600lb-ft NA V10 @ 3350lbs with a 6sp manual is > 425hp 410lb-ft @ 3300lbs. turbo 6 DCT.
Appreciate 0
      08-31-2015, 01:46 AM   #19
Karmic Man
Major
Karmic Man's Avatar
Australia
1510
Rep
1,481
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: World

iTrader: (0)

If I were in the States I would get a Viper no doubt...no actually I would get a 911GT3RS since they are so much cheaper there

The M4 GTS doesn't really appeal me too much since there is no racing history behind the engine.

The M4 DTM still uses the P66 4.0 V8....Put an NA V8 back into the GTS and I might look again.
Appreciate 1
      08-31-2015, 01:23 PM   #20
cc3
Major
489
Rep
1,295
Posts

Drives: 1M, GT4, M2 M140i G20
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: .UK

iTrader: (0)

Can't wait will be really special
Appreciate 1
      08-31-2015, 01:30 PM   #21
The Automotive Enthusiast
Retired BMW Genius
The Automotive Enthusiast's Avatar
United_States
2578
Rep
3,424
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S5 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: DMV

iTrader: (1)

Please come to the U.S. !!!! Please come to the U.S.!!!! I will buy one right now!!!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Appreciate 0
      08-31-2015, 01:32 PM   #22
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
402
Rep
4,577
Posts

Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

Scott, any news of an F80 CRT?
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | JPN 240 ECU flash | Euro LCI taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:51 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST