Autotalent
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-11-2017, 11:31 AM   #1
Jason
Administrator
Jason's Avatar
United_States
26535
Rep
20,327
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Lightbulb M3/M4 to Get Steel Driveshafts Beginning Nov. 2017. Sales top 68,000 to date.

BIMMERPOST NEWS
M3/M4 to Get Steel Driveshafts (From CFRP) Beginning November 2017
899
COMMENTS

August 11, 2017

Munich.
From November 2017 onwards, the CFRP driveshaft in the BMW M3 Sedan, BMW M4 Coupe and BMW M4 Convertible high-performance sports cars will be gradually replaced by an M specific high-performance driveshaft made of steel. This measure will create the necessary technical basis for meeting future statutory emissions requirements. At a later point in time, a petrol particulate filter (PPF) will be incorporated into the existing installation space in these models in major markets.

The newly developed steel driveshaft has been designed to ensure the superlative performance and handling qualities of the BMW M3/M4 high-performance sports cars remain unaffected.

For production-related reasons, this pre-enabling needs to be carried out universally for the BMW M3 Sedan, BMW M4 Coupe and BMW M4 Convertible. This measure does not apply to the BMW M4 CS and BMW M4 GTS special-edition models.

Now in their fifth generation, the BMW M3 Sedan, BMW M4 Coupe and BMW M4 Convertible represent the epitome of the high-performance sports car that can be used without compromise every day. Customer deliveries of the successful current generation of models have now topped 68,000.

__________________
Check on the Latest BMW News
Become a fan of Bimmerpost Facebook
Follow us on Bimmerpost Twitter
Subscribe to Bimmerpost Youtube Channel
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 11:40 AM   #2
kepler
Drittes Pedal ist Pflicht
United_States
1078
Rep
976
Posts

Drives: German only
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Never feels good to get shafted.
__________________
BMW ///M: 2013 E92 M3 Alpine White 6MT ZCP Speed Cloth - No Navigation or iDrive - Sold
2013 E92 M3 Space Grey 6MT ZCP Speed Cloth - Sold
2003 E46 M3 Carbon Black on Black 6MT - Sold
PORSCHE: Too many GT3/4s and other 911s over the years to list.
Appreciate 59
mkoesel6237.00
amdmaxx102.50
JustChris11145.50
danniexi1612.50
clbmw590.00
tetsuo111863.50
dmboone254583.50
BentZero576.50
jzmundy574.50
cwhands461.00
Vervain155.50
rr006rbc1178.50
amw896566.00
Colinv63176.00
Dackelone9564.00
stormlv497.50
iatacs19319.50
MNoob700.00
minn197178.00
sy2767106.50
Doctor///M1498.00
Brake_Late1911.50
otay700.50
duky881.50
DD335i109.00
Eddien1231375.50

      08-11-2017, 11:41 AM   #3
Seniorleb
Lieutenant
Seniorleb's Avatar
467
Rep
559
Posts

Drives: 2018 SO M4 ZCP
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Dubai

iTrader: (0)

Again an update, are they gonna ever stop man...
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 11:41 AM   #4
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
6237
Rep
18,799
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Customer deliveries of the successful current generation of models have now topped 68,000.
Aha - they snuck in something to distract us from the decontenting - numbers!

First time I've seen any mention of sales totals for this generation. And a good figure it is, I'd say. Depending on how the M3 exiting late next year affects things, it seems to me that 100k+ should be possible by the time the last M4 convertible is produced in mid 2020.
Appreciate 2
      08-11-2017, 11:53 AM   #5
Wah
IG@i.am.wah
Wah's Avatar
United_States
1696
Rep
3,282
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 2016 X5
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NJ

iTrader: (3)

How can it possibly be the same if they are going from CF to steel when they claimed a 40% weight savings and reduced rotating mass with CF driveshafts over steel?
Appreciate 23
georgere558.50
euro*682.00
clbmw590.00
dmboone254583.50
jhbodle99.00
Dackelone9564.00
stormlv497.50
YWGT3350.00
DeeKay390.00
minn197178.00
GrussGott10289.00
Biorin2776.00
Brake_Late1911.50
FSociety3449.50
vincE92M3526.50
DD335i109.00
shay2nak1015.50
TI.3VOM73.50

      08-11-2017, 12:02 PM   #6
marvinp
Captain
United_States
237
Rep
600
Posts

Drives: '18 M3, '09 135i
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

This seems like a step back, no? Does anyone know what this has to future emission requirements?
__________________
2018 F80 M3, Silverstone Metallic II, ZCP w/ black 666M (Ordered: 7/9/2017 | Pickup 9/9/2017)
1998 E36 M3, Cosmos Schwarz Metallic
2009 E82 135i, Montego Blue
Appreciate 6
georgere558.50
Seniorleb467.00
Dackelone9564.00
DD335i109.00
CLEANM415.00
Jce4691.50

      08-11-2017, 12:05 PM   #7
Gibson6594
Major
970
Rep
1,142
Posts

Drives: 2016 SO M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinp View Post
This seems like a step back, no? Does anyone know what this has to future emission requirements?
Hard to know, but I would assume a step back. Usually measures taken to adapt to emission regulations are not in the interests of performance enhancements.
Appreciate 3
Brake_Late1911.50
Kankles904.00

      08-11-2017, 12:06 PM   #8
georgere
Lieutenant Colonel
georgere's Avatar
United_States
559
Rep
1,936
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3 BSM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Stamford CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinp View Post
This seems like a step back, no? Does anyone know what this has to future emission requirements?
What does the shaft have to do with emission? I think weight savings would no?
__________________
My 1st love was 2006 BMW 325i Sport + Prem 6MT but I married the 2016 M3 BSM MDCT.
Appreciate 3
dsocold166.00
chris82597.50
lavon0.00

      08-11-2017, 12:15 PM   #9
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
6237
Rep
18,799
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by georgere View Post
What does the shaft have to do with emission? I think weight savings would no?
Sounds like they are using the space vacated by the CFRP driveshaft (the steel one will have a smaller diameter, presumably) to install some additional emissions equipment that is required to meet new regulatory requirements:
"At a later point in time, a petrol particulate filter (PPF) will be incorporated into the existing installation space in these models in major markets."
Either that or it's BS and they just want to cut costs, or perhaps even that they want to give the CS one more distinguishing characteristic to try to better justify its massive jump in MSRP from the base model M4.
Appreciate 18
minn197178.00
SakhirM410378.00
Yeineken1163.50
clbmw590.00
Brake_Late1911.50
FSociety3449.50
georgere558.50
JustChris11145.50
DD335i109.00
CLEANM415.00
chris82597.50

      08-11-2017, 12:16 PM   #10
RobC2
Lieutenant
226
Rep
450
Posts

Drives: Not Sure What's Next Yet
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

The steel shaft is probably narrower, leaving more room for the emissions stuff.
Appreciate 5
      08-11-2017, 12:20 PM   #11
Aaaaaaaaa
Banned
No_Country
6772
Rep
5,064
Posts

Drives: The other M3
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (0)

Or maybe the production of the CF drive shaft produces more emissions compared to steel.

So what does "gradually" mean. I'm planning on an Oct order which might mean Nov build. Hope I don't get "shafted".
Appreciate 1
CLEANM415.00

      08-11-2017, 12:21 PM   #12
Westerwälder
Enlisted Member
Germany
11
Rep
37
Posts

Drives: BMW F87 M2c
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Living in Germany I expected something will (has to) happen...
But does this will also affect the already delivered vehicles? Or only production date from November 2017 on?! Not clearly mentioned.
As the German press release talks about a "technical service action", which somehow feels a bit like a recall...

Would really be disappointing, especially because such an additional filter will reduce the beautiful noise it makes
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 12:25 PM   #13
RobC2
Lieutenant
226
Rep
450
Posts

Drives: Not Sure What's Next Yet
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westerwälder View Post
Living in Germany I expected something will (has to) happen...
But does this will also affect the already delivered vehicles? Or only production date from November 2017 on?! Not clearly mentioned.
As the German press release talks about a "technical service action", which somehow feels a bit like a recall...

Would really be disappointing, especially because such an additional filter will reduce the beautiful noise it makes
Not sure how it could impact delivered vehicles. It is a feature that we all paid for when we bought the car. If it is taken away, then it seems reasonable that we should get something in return at least. I think we will be fine.
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 12:32 PM   #14
Gibson6594
Major
970
Rep
1,142
Posts

Drives: 2016 SO M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Steel vs CF

Appreciate 33
mcc3456327.50
Vigilant270.50
M4RAUDR235.00
DeeKay390.00
135iDCT109.50
Xtabi1592.50
bmrwrld157.50
Brasko1319.00
_M4CHINE_309.00
cobbyy46.00
Brake_Late1911.50
Herofmine223.00
ORIGIN M.3122.00
emulajavi227.00
SpeedN857.00
MadViper129.00
shay2nak1015.50
TI.3VOM73.50
///Mongo260.50
georgere558.50
Fortyb164.00
Mikster50.00
dim635csi198.00
BigHunk173.50
SD ///M42502.50

      08-11-2017, 12:35 PM   #15
CanAutM3
Lieutenant General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
12121
Rep
17,525
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates
Appreciate 4
dmboone254583.50
F831337.00
Daddeo30.00

      08-11-2017, 12:51 PM   #16
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
6237
Rep
18,799
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

This also just in:

M3/M4 to get steel roof from January 2018 due to increased fears of bird poop damaging the carbon fibers and making the roof fall off. *

And From April 2018: All M3/M4 get a steel interior trim because the CFRP is just not durable enough for the task anymore. *

* M4 CS excluded. M4 CS also now the exclusive recipient of Comfort Access, Apple CarPlay, and exterior door handles. Available mid-2018 for just $110,000.
Appreciate 31
clbmw590.00
Jez_zza413.00
termigni1050.50
KevinM2341.50
RobC2226.00
1230vani421.50
stormlv497.50
DeeKay390.00
330iToy37.00
c63er863.50
6ixSpd5525.00
Brake_Late1911.50
JustChris11145.50
dim635csi198.00
DD335i109.00
CLEANM415.00
Kankles904.00
TI.3VOM73.50
Inablur161.00
chris82597.50
georgere558.50

      08-11-2017, 01:07 PM   #17
Gibson6594
Major
970
Rep
1,142
Posts

Drives: 2016 SO M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Love how they call it a "M specific high-performance driveshaft made of steel."

M Steel.

This should be stickied for all those who want to know if they should wait for the next model.
Appreciate 8
      08-11-2017, 01:19 PM   #18
minn19
Major General
minn19's Avatar
United_States
7178
Rep
7,652
Posts

Drives: 19 F150, 20 GLI, 19 ZLE, 212S
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Sounds like they are using the space vacated by the CFRP driveshaft (the steel one will have a smaller diameter, presumably) to install some additional emissions equipment that is required to meet new regulatory requirements:
"At a later point in time, a petrol particulate filter (PPF) will be incorporated into the existing installation space in these models in major markets."
Either that or it's BS and they just want to cut costs, or perhaps even that they want to give the CS one more distinguishing characteristic to try to better justify its massive jump in MSRP from the base model M4.
This is what I don't get. Why do the regular M3/4 need this for regulations, but the CS doesn't? Uh ok.

If it isn't needed until a later time then why not continue with the CF shafts until it is required? Are they going require those vehicles to come back in and get the additional emissions equipment? Obviously I kind of doubt it. Sounds like cost cutting to me.
Appreciate 6
      08-11-2017, 01:20 PM   #19
CanAutM3
Lieutenant General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
12121
Rep
17,525
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
This also just in:

M3/M4 to get steel roof from January 2018 due to increased fears of bird poop damaging the carbon fibers and making the roof fall off. *

And From April 2018: All M3/M4 get a steel interior trim because the CFRP is just not durable enough for the task anymore. *

* M4 CS excluded. M4 CS also now the exclusive recipient of Comfort Access, Apple CarPlay, and exterior door handles. Available mid-2018 for just $110,000.
We can joke about it as much as we want, but the CFRP driveshaft was marketed as a big thing when the F8X was released.
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates
Appreciate 13
JustChris11145.50
RobC2226.00
stormlv497.50
DeeKay390.00
JSTDR1V386.50
F831337.00
DD335i109.00
shay2nak1015.50
Mikster50.00

      08-11-2017, 01:22 PM   #20
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
6237
Rep
18,799
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
We can joke about it as much as we want, but the CFRP driveshaft was marketed as a big thing when the F8X was released.
No doubt. I am just having a little fun with BMW, the backpedaling, and their obtuse press releases.
Appreciate 3
CanAutM312120.50

      08-11-2017, 01:27 PM   #21
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
6237
Rep
18,799
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
This is what I don't get. Why do the regular M3/4 need this for regulations, but the CS doesn't? Uh ok.
Sales volume would be my guess (and it is just a guess, to be clear).

Quote:
If it isn't needed until a later time than why not continue with the CF shafts until it is required?
Probably because its not best practice to wait until the regulatory date is upon you to have the product ready. Lead time is standard so that, in case anything isn't quite right with the final product coming off the line, there is time to fix the issues before they are out of compliance. Again, that's just my guess.

Quote:
Are they going require those vehicles to come back in and get the additional emissions equipment? Obviously I kind of doubt it. Sounds like cost cutting to me.
No, but that doesn't mean it must be cost cutting. It could just mean that existing vehicles are grandfathered as is the case with most emissions regulations.
Appreciate 1
      08-11-2017, 01:29 PM   #22
minn19
Major General
minn19's Avatar
United_States
7178
Rep
7,652
Posts

Drives: 19 F150, 20 GLI, 19 ZLE, 212S
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Sales volume would be my guess (and it is just a guess, to be clear).



Probably because its not best practice to wait until the regulatory date is upon you to have the product ready. Lead time is standard so that, in case anything isn't quite right with the final product coming off the line, they have time to fix the issues before they are out of compliance. Again, that's just my guess.



No, but that doesn't mean it must be cost cutting. It could just mean that existing vehicles are grandfathered as is the case with most emissions regulations.
It still doesn't make sense. You don't see them preparing for the rear view camera regulation by adding them in for free do you.

You can have the drive shaft designed/built and ready to go when it is needed while still installing the CF shafts.

Sorry, I don't see how this isn't anything but cost cutting. It makes no logical sense.
Appreciate 2
Vigilant270.50
chris82597.50

Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:23 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST