ZCP Stock Size Michelin Pilot Sport 4S

[Remonster]

I recently switched from the factory Star BMW spec F80 M3 ZCP Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires to the standard Pilot Sport 4S in the same sizes, 265/30/20 front and 285/30/20 rear and wanted to share pictures of the differences. I see a lot of people asking how the different tread widths compare and I actually was surprised to find the difference in the rear tread width despite Tire Rack listing both the factory tire and my new one at the exact same 9.9" tread width. The fronts are supposed to be 0.5" wider than stock so we'll see how they are in reality.

These pictures are of the rear tires, I'm waiting on Fedex to deliver my fronts today so I'll post front comparison pictures when I have them. Despite Tire Rack's claim that both of these are 9.9" wide at the tread, the overall width of the PS4S is about 0.5" wider once mounted on the 666M wheels. I believe the actual tread touching the ground will be similar but part of this post is about showing people how the tires will look on the factory ZCP wheels. I think the PS4S looks much better and appears to fit the wheel better than the absurdly stretched stock front tire. I'll share driving impressions after a few days on the new tires.

The first two pictures compare the tires when both are off of the wheel. All other photos are of the tires mounted on my rear 666M wheels. Most of the comparison photos I've seen had one tire mounted being compared to an un-mounted new tire and that made it really hard to figure out what will actually be different.

[Remonster]

On a purely aesthetic level, the fronts are an even bigger improvement than the rears were. I was bummed I couldn't fit the 275/30/20 front tire that the M4 guys run but not anymore. This looks perfect and more importantly it looks like it should feel a lot better as well, I'll report my impressions soon.

The car and wheels were pretty filthy, I have some more pictures coming in a later post after the car was washed showing how the wheels & tires look on the car. Spoiler alert: I like it a lot.

[White340]

Thanks for sharing. I am interested in your review specifically with regard to overall road noise and smoothness of the tires over bumps vs the PSS.

I find the PSS to be loud and harsh over street roads but then again I can only compare it to my old 19" wheels with Bridgestone S001 RFT in 235/35/19 which have just a slightly taller tire by 3mm.

[DougT]

Nice!! I love the look a lot better than the stock tires.. I think I'm gonna go with these once I need new tires. They're supposed to be better grip too from the info I've seen.

[ilia]

This will be the replacement tire for my devil wheels as well. They look great on the wheels. Looking forward to the review.

[Poiseuille]

hey, thanks for taking the time to post all that OP. very interesting comparo.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by DougT

Nice!! I love the look a lot better than the stock tires.. I think I'm gonna go with these once I need new tires. They're supposed to be better grip too from the info I've seen.

Originally Posted by White340

Thanks for sharing. I am interested in your review specifically with regard to overall road noise and smoothness of the tires over bumps vs the PSS.

I find the PSS to be loud and harsh over street roads but then again I can only compare it to my old 19" wheels with Bridgestone S001 RFT in 235/35/19 which have just a slightly taller tire by 3mm.

I haven't driven on these on this car yet, still sitting here at work, but I did switch from Pilot Super Sports to Pilot Sport 4S on my previous car and even going from standard PSS to standard PS4S, the 4S is slightly better in the dry (especially in terms of straight line traction / launching), noticeably stickier in the wet, much quieter, and quite a bit more supple over bumps. In this case, I'm expecting an even more noticeable upgrade because the BMW Star spec tires are stretched on the wheels so the sidewalls are very taut. Very curious to see how the new setup feels and slightly nervous because I do love the responsiveness of this car's steering and wouldn't be happy if that gets any worse at all compared to stock.

The amount of freeway road noise and the way these tires slap over sharp bumps was surprising to me the first time I drove a ZCP, I have put thousands of miles on probably 50 different F80s on numerous different wheel and tire setups including a lot of cars that are on 20" HREs - those cars all had properly-fitting tires on their 19" or 20" wheels and not a single one of them was like the stock ZCP setup.

I talked to an instructor at the last BMW CCA autocross about the way these ZCP tires feel and he said his first reaction to them was "what the fk is this?" he was referring to the way they transition more suddenly into under or oversteer than the normal 19" wheel and tire setup that the F80s come with.

[Remonster]

The end result

[EricSMG]

Extremely anxious to hear your driving impressions. I'm hoping that they reduce impact harshness over cracks/sharp ridges notably as the factory setup is borderline intolerable.... at times.

BUT.... like you, I LOVE the responsiveness of the factory ZCP setup and would not want to give up any of that for more comfort. I think I've read reports where the PS4S does reduce response a bit... we'll see. Hoping you'll be brutally honest/candid.

All that said, call me crazy, but I much prefer the stretch look of the PSS tires... gives the car an athletic, lean, taught appearance. The PS4S's are notably chunkier which never looks as good, to me. But this is splitting hairs.

[cca101]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Extremely anxious to hear your driving impressions. I'm hoping that they reduce impact harshness over cracks/sharp ridges notably as the factory setup is borderline intolerable.... at times.

BUT.... like you, I LOVE the responsiveness of the factory ZCP setup and would not want to give up any of that for more comfort. I think I've read reports where the PS4S does reduce response a bit... we'll see. Hoping you'll be brutally honest/candid.

All that said, call me crazy, but I much prefer the stretch look of the PSS tires... gives the car an athletic, lean, taught appearance. The PS4S's are notably chunkier which never looks as good, to me. But this is splitting hairs.

I agree about the looks. The stock tires just look better, as much as I'm trying to talk myself into liking the way the PS4S look because they probably are the better tires, they just don't work aesthetically for me.

Saw them on the ZCP rims at the dealership and it does take away from the overall look of the car. That lip on the stock PSS/ZCP rim just looks proper.

I'm looking forward to hear what OP has to say about how they drive, maybe it'll be convincing enough. In another thread someone confirmed that the PS4S on the ZCP rims worked very well/better on track than stock PSS. He mentioned the sidewall didn''t roll over as much. I think the reduced response was on the 19" rims.

By the way Remonster, the blue looks awesome.

[Remonster]

For me, the look is a thousand percent improved. Every time I looked at the stretched front tire I wanted to sell the car and even a Michelin rep who came to visit our shop asked me why I had such a stupidly stretched (his words) front tire on my car, not knowing this was stock fitment.

I will say already that if lower noise and increased comfort / suppleness are high on your list of priorities, this setup absolutely nails it. I’ve done about 100 miles but all of it boring freeway and cracked surface street driving so far. No real handling impression yet but the comfort and noise improvement are very noticeable and definitely welcome.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Remonster

I will say already that if lower noise and increased comfort / suppleness are high on your list of priorities, this setup absolutely nails it. I’ve done about 100 miles but all of it boring freeway and cracked surface street driving so far. No real handling impression yet but the comfort and noise improvement are very noticeable and definitely welcome.

Great input!

Initial gut feel on steering response?

[Remonster]

I'm really happy with the Pilot Sport 4S, there is a difference in steering response and the way the car settles into a fast steady-state corner that's noticeable but it's fairly small. You do feel a little sidewall deflection now during aggressive cornering or direction changes where before there really was none but for me this little difference is acceptable when considering the very large difference in comfort & quietness and the other positive changes I noticed.

Traction is really improved, I specifically changed tires while my PSS were still in good shape to be able to make a useful comparison because comparing a worn out set of tires to anything new is pointless. I'm currently flashed to the stock ZCP tune, 1st gear was total tire spin with axle hop that felt like it would break something and I could often spin 2nd gear, too. Now, dumping the clutch at 3,500 at full throttle barely spins the tires in 1st gear at all. There is a little axle hop but it's much more subtle, doesn't feel like it would break the car anymore. I tried a bunch of burnouts to see how the axle hop situation had changed and most of the time ended up accidentally launching the car well rather than spinning the tires too much.

Cornering speeds are noticeably higher. This is partly because the PS4S feels like it offers a little more grip than the Star PSS and partly because the softer sidewall makes the car a lot more planted on bumpy roads. Feels like no bump could unsettle the car now, the suspension has an easier job of absorbing San Diego's insanely shitty roads.

I did notice less sidewall roll over due the much flatter shape of the tread, I run the same 32psi cold as before and I don't see any signs of wear past the little Michelin man tread edge indicator.

I understand why BMW chose to spec the stock tires the way they did but to me, it feels like they threw away a lot in search of a little sharper steering response and less sidewall deflection.

[White340]

You're making me want to switch. I have a 18 ZCP with the PSS on 666Ms and I have only put 200 or so miles on them (dealership to my house), then swapped them out for winter wheels/tires. While they might be great performance wise, I can't stand how harsh they are on dividers and sharp potholes. I'm not expecting Lexus smoothness, but my S001 RFT on 19's were way smoother. The highway noise is also very loud for my taste.

Do you think it is worth the switch for someone like me? Is it worth spending 1400+ for these tires or will it make only a marginal difference?

Could you rate these tires from 1-10 in terms of improvement vs the PSS in the following categories:

1) Road noise
2) Smoothness over small bumps
3) Smoothness over sharp bumps

Thanks!

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by White340

You're making me want to switch. I have a 18 ZCP with the PSS on 666Ms and I have only put 200 or so miles on them (dealership to my house), then swapped them out for winter wheels/tires. While they might be great performance wise, I can't stand how harsh they are on dividers and sharp potholes. I'm not expecting Lexus smoothness, but my S001 RFT on 19's were way smoother. The highway noise is also very loud for my taste.

Do you think it is worth the switch for someone like me? Is it worth spending 1400+ for these tires or will it make only a marginal difference?

Could you rate these tires from 1-10 in terms of improvement vs the PSS in the following categories:

1) Road noise
2) Smoothness over small bumps
3) Smoothness over sharp bumps

Thanks!

I switched early because I’m leasing my car and I wanted to keep the BMW Star spec tires in case they need those to be on the car at lease end. They didn’t care that my last M3 had non-Star spec tires but I didn’t want to risk it. I would not say the difference is big enough to get rid of good tires to make the switch but when you need tires, definitely go for the PS4S.

Road noise is much lower, easily a 7 improvement. People close to me have gotten in and immediately commented on this already.
Smoothness over small bumps has improved like 6.
Smoothness over sharp bumps is a 3 or 4, they’re still 20” wheels with 30 series sidewalls so you’re going to notice the road.

The “slap” when driving over lane markers is almost entirely gone which is nice.

[M3NACE M]

Originally Posted by Remonster

On a purely aesthetic level, the fronts are an even bigger improvement than the rears were. I was bummed I couldn't fit the 275/30/20 front tire that the M4 guys run but not anymore. This looks perfect and more importantly it looks like it should feel a lot better as well, I'll report my impressions soon.

The car and wheels were pretty filthy, I have some more pictures coming in a later post after the car was washed showing how the wheels & tires look on the car. Spoiler alert: I like it a lot.

Why can't you run the 275/30/20 in the front? Did I miss something..? Thanks

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by M3NACE M

Why can't you run the 275/30/20 in the front? Did I miss something..? Thanks

275/30/20 fits on M4 but it rubs on the M3's fender lining. A few people said the rubbing was pretty bad, some say you can lightly modify the fender lining to make it work but I didn't want to deal with any of that so I figured I'd try the stock size PS4S and share anything I saw or noticed with the community.

[M3NACE M]

Originally Posted by Remonster

275/30/20 fits on M4 but it rubs on the M3's fender lining. A few people said the rubbing was pretty bad, some say you can lightly modify the fender lining to make it work but I didn't want to deal with any of that so I figured I'd try the stock size PS4S and share anything I saw or noticed with the community.

Awesome! Thanks man! I’m about to order new tires, so good to know!

(What’s the thought on 265 front, 295 rear on the F80?)

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by M3NACE M

Awesome! Thanks man! I’m about to order new tires, so good to know!

(What’s the thought on 265 front, 295 rear on the F80?)

People have run it and I've seen positive feedback from other forum members, I have never driven that combo on any F80 or F82 so I have nothing useful to add.

I avoided that setup because the 295/30/20 Pilot Sport 4S is a big jump up in actual size vs the 285/30/20. When I looked at a few relevant measurements, it became clear which way I wanted to go:

Pilot Sport 4S

265/30/20 - Tread Width 9.4" Diameter 26.3"

285/30/20 - Tread Width 9.9" Diameter 26.8"

295/20/30 - Tread Width 11.1" Diameter 27"

295/30/20 (M01) - Tread Width 10.3" Diameter 27"

That last tire is an M01 Mercedes-Benz spec tire which is closer to my ideal 1" difference between the front and rear treads but, just like the original Star BMW spec tires our cars come with it, has unknown changes to its tread pattern, rubber compound, etc. beyond what I can see in Tire Rack's measurements. I wasn't curious enough to find out how Mercedes-Benz had customized their tire and figured it may result in some weird differences between the front and rear tires like different sidewall stiffness or whatever. It was too much of an unknown for me to want to risk being unhappy.

[White340]

BTW, do you have spacers on your car? I am considering this setup an would like to know if 12mm spacers up front and 10mm spacers in the back work with this setup and don't rub or stick out.

Thanks!

[SMGCFP]

I have 265/30/20 on front and 285/30/20 on the rear. I believe this is the stock ZCP tire size. I've had the PS4S for 8000 miles and they are better in every way IMO. Better grip, way better wet weather grip, they wear better, and they look just as good, again, IMO.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by White340

BTW, do you have spacers on your car? I am considering this setup an would like to know if 12mm spacers up front and 10mm spacers in the back work with this setup and don't rub or stick out.

Thanks!

I do not have any spacers in the pics above and haven't tried any spacers on my car yet.

By the way the difference in wet weather traction is shocking. I used to completely spin 2nd gear when my PSS tires were new in the rain and now it comes close to fully hooking up in 1st gear. I don't miss the factory tires in any way.