European Auto Source (EAS)
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > M3/M4 versus...

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-04-2019, 01:47 PM   #1
mirob
Captain
mirob's Avatar
United_States
439
Rep
723
Posts

Drives: X5 M
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Bomb City, TX

iTrader: (0)

Video: F80 M3 ZCP Competition vs Giulia Quadrifoglio - Driver Swap Review

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
Bit lengthy but different.

Enjoy!

Part I - Giulia Quadrifoglio



Part II - F80 M3 ZCP

Appreciate 3
      02-04-2019, 03:28 PM   #2
mcc3456
First Lieutenant
United_States
290
Rep
356
Posts

Drives: Best Sedan on Mkt
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: City of Champions

iTrader: (0)

Good comparison. Though in the same class and similar on paper, they go about their work very differently. At the end of the day, you can't go wrong either way. Having owned both, it all comes down to personal preference. One thing is for sure though, they are both more fun than the C63s and RS5.
Appreciate 17
      02-04-2019, 03:34 PM   #3
Jojipoji
Second Lieutenant
116
Rep
261
Posts

Drives: 16 m3/15 gtr
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Avon CT

iTrader: (0)

eh, not sure about being more fun than the c63s. Have you driven one? the f80 in manual for sure is more fun but the dct is so much less engaging. If going auto/dct I actually have more fun in the amg than my f80. v8 twin turbo and the ease of being able to control a sideways spin, the exhaust note. yummy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mcc3456 View Post
Good comparison. Though in the same class and similar on paper, they go about their work very differently. At the end of the day, you can't go wrong either way. Having owned both, it all comes down to personal preference. One thing is for sure though, they are both more fun than the C63s and RS5.
Appreciate 1
      02-04-2019, 05:54 PM   #4
mcc3456
First Lieutenant
United_States
290
Rep
356
Posts

Drives: Best Sedan on Mkt
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: City of Champions

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojipoji View Post
eh, not sure about being more fun than the c63s. Have you driven one? the f80 in manual for sure is more fun but the dct is so much less engaging. If going auto/dct I actually have more fun in the amg than my f80. v8 twin turbo and the ease of being able to control a sideways spin, the exhaust note. yummy.
I’ve owned a C63, E63, CLK63, and E63s in succession prior to buying my F80 M3, which has since been replaced with a Quadrifoglio. Both the M3 and Quadrifoglio are more fun. The AMGs are nice, but a notch below in handling and road feel. C63s has a great engine, but if you can't get the power to the ground, no point in having it. That is the reason why the Next Gen M3 is heading the optional AWD route.

Last edited by mcc3456; 02-04-2019 at 09:50 PM.
Appreciate 5
      02-04-2019, 11:27 PM   #5
Jojipoji
Second Lieutenant
116
Rep
261
Posts

Drives: 16 m3/15 gtr
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Avon CT

iTrader: (0)

Just to be clear, you had a w205 or w204 c63s?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcc3456 View Post
Iíve owned a C63, E63, CLK63, and E63s in succession prior to buying my F80 M3, which has since been replaced with a Quadrifoglio. Both the M3 and Quadrifoglio are more fun. The AMGs are nice, but a notch below in handling and road feel. C63s has a great engine, but if you can't get the power to the ground, no point in having it. That is the reason why the Next Gen M3 is heading the optional AWD route.
Appreciate 0
      02-05-2019, 08:03 AM   #6
mcc3456
First Lieutenant
United_States
290
Rep
356
Posts

Drives: Best Sedan on Mkt
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: City of Champions

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojipoji View Post
Just to be clear, you had a w205 or w204 c63s?
Yes, did not have a w205 but have driven it, and also had the faster E63s. Awesome cars, but not a nimble at the M3 nor Quadrifoglio.

Last edited by mcc3456; 02-05-2019 at 11:21 AM.
Appreciate 0
      02-05-2019, 09:37 AM   #7
Funf6cyl
Second Lieutenant
101
Rep
211
Posts

Drives: 6 cyl
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Synchronized

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojipoji View Post
Just to be clear, you had a w205 or w204 c63s?
W205 C63S Coupe puts the power down better than the m3/4 and just as well as the Quadrifoglio...except the Quad does have a bit stickier tire than the C63 so that counts for something.
Appreciate 0
      02-05-2019, 11:22 AM   #8
mcc3456
First Lieutenant
United_States
290
Rep
356
Posts

Drives: Best Sedan on Mkt
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: City of Champions

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
W205 C63S Coupe puts the power down better than the m3/4 and just as well as the Quadrifoglio...except the Quad does have a bit stickier tire than the C63 so that counts for something.
Pretty much everything else does. It is the one real sore spot for the M3/M4. You know that won't be a problem in next-gen though...that is for sure.
Appreciate 0
      02-05-2019, 02:43 PM   #9
Funf6cyl
Second Lieutenant
101
Rep
211
Posts

Drives: 6 cyl
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Synchronized

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcc3456 View Post
Pretty much everything else does. It is the one real sore spot for the M3/M4. You know that won't be a problem in next-gen though...that is for sure.
If they go AWD then yes it will, but it will also be pushing 4000 lbs given a fully loaded DCT M3 now is already 3700 without AWD. Then again, their awd also makes the steering feel even worse than it already is, like the M5 (yuck) and doesnít help in dynamics either.

Otherwise though, the 2019 C63 is fantastic in that regard and also has the 9 speed traction control from the AMG GT-R which works very well.
Appreciate 0
      02-05-2019, 02:55 PM   #10
RowanBuds
Lieutenant Colonel
RowanBuds's Avatar
1018
Rep
1,541
Posts

Drives: LMB F80
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bergen County, NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcc3456 View Post
Pretty much everything else does. It is the one real sore spot for the M3/M4. You know that won't be a problem in next-gen though...that is for sure.
Without apples--apples Re: Rubber, the statements on putting power down are irrelevant to me. A self respecting person who is buying a toy - yes, they're toys - like this should expect to replace the rubber at least once in their ownership, if over 18 months or so. If the difference between a depreciating asset you don't enjoy and one you do enjoy is determined by putting the power down, an investment of under $1,000 would resolve your concerns.

If you re-shod the F80 with it's 255/275 MPSS OEM rubber, yes it has trouble hooking up. If, you spent a bit more per tire and put on RE-71R, or 265/295 MPSS, or MPSC2s or the same Alfa tire - the F80 will hook right up.

Only speaking from my personal experience going to both RE-71R and also 295 MPSS out back though, what do I know.
__________________
Le Mans Blue F80 M3. Munich delivery 5-22-2015 / US Redelivery 7-7-2015

ED Recap
Appreciate 2
      02-05-2019, 03:14 PM   #11
EricSMG
Lieutenant
364
Rep
596
Posts

Drives: E46 M3
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

I just don't get the traction comments about the ZCP, at all. I can use nearly/fully 100% of the grunt on this thing in 2nd gear all the time, assuming warm/dry conditions, on stock PSS 285s.

Canyon runs... WOT in 2nd gear, coming out of tight corners... very, very hooked.

What am I missing?

Edit - I can easily break my E46 M3 loose if I try. My E90M3 was even easier, if I tried. Point is, a truly powerful car like the F80 will spin if provoked. So will a Corvette. Camaro. Mustang, etc.
__________________

2018 F80 M3 ZCP 6MT AW/Black Cloth "stripper"
2004 E46 M3 6MT SG/Black
Appreciate 4
      02-05-2019, 03:58 PM   #12
Jojipoji
Second Lieutenant
116
Rep
261
Posts

Drives: 16 m3/15 gtr
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Avon CT

iTrader: (0)

you california people are spoiled. LOL. come to new england where traction is a one season event. lol



Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
I just don't get the traction comments about the ZCP, at all. I can use nearly/fully 100% of the grunt on this thing in 2nd gear all the time, assuming warm/dry conditions, on stock PSS 285s.

Canyon runs... WOT in 2nd gear, coming out of tight corners... very, very hooked.

What am I missing?

Edit - I can easily break my E46 M3 loose if I try. My E90M3 was even easier, if I tried. Point is, a truly powerful car like the F80 will spin if provoked. So will a Corvette. Camaro. Mustang, etc.
Appreciate 9
      02-05-2019, 04:05 PM   #13
Jojipoji
Second Lieutenant
116
Rep
261
Posts

Drives: 16 m3/15 gtr
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Avon CT

iTrader: (0)

fun is subjective but with that said, you are comparing a w204 vs a f80. the proper comparison is w205 which drives totally different. Ive owned both cars and two iterations of the f80. The c63s is not as light and nimble and doesnt have the overall handling at the limit, but the drifting characteristics is more stable than the f80. the f80 is more twitchy. the c63s is way more progressive as you can easily feel the back end slowly come out. I.e its more controllable sideways which in my opinion makes it much more fun. with that said it doesnt come in manual.

for me f80 manual < c63s < f80 dct in terms of overall fun

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcc3456 View Post
Yes, did not have a w205 but have driven it, and also had the faster E63s. Awesome cars, but not a nimble at the M3 nor Quadrifoglio.
Appreciate 0
      02-05-2019, 05:42 PM   #14
EricSMG
Lieutenant
364
Rep
596
Posts

Drives: E46 M3
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojipoji View Post
you california people are spoiled. LOL. come to new england where traction is a one season event. lol
Haha, yep, good point.

I just, personally, would never ever say that the F80Z is traction limited. Quite the contrary - I think it hooks extremely well for how much power it makes.

But even in the rain (it's been pouring here) the ZCP hooks really, really good. I have to provoke it to break it loose.
__________________

2018 F80 M3 ZCP 6MT AW/Black Cloth "stripper"
2004 E46 M3 6MT SG/Black
Appreciate 1
      02-05-2019, 08:24 PM   #15
mcc3456
First Lieutenant
United_States
290
Rep
356
Posts

Drives: Best Sedan on Mkt
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: City of Champions

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds View Post
Without apples--apples Re: Rubber, the statements on putting power down are irrelevant to me. A self respecting person who is buying a toy - yes, they're toys - like this should expect to replace the rubber at least once in their ownership, if over 18 months or so. If the difference between a depreciating asset you don't enjoy and one you do enjoy is determined by putting the power down, an investment of under $1,000 would resolve your concerns.

If you re-shod the F80 with it's 255/275 MPSS OEM rubber, yes it has trouble hooking up. If, you spent a bit more per tire and put on RE-71R, or 265/295 MPSS, or MPSC2s or the same Alfa tire - the F80 will hook right up.

Only speaking from my personal experience going to both RE-71R and also 295 MPSS out back though, what do I know.
Nice theory, but it’s not the tires. Even with snow tires on each car on a dry road the Alfa hooks up better. I had both in the garage at the same time. There is a meaningful difference.
Appreciate 0
      02-05-2019, 08:55 PM   #16
ntgarage44
Second Lieutenant
ntgarage44's Avatar
United_States
246
Rep
248
Posts

Drives: '17 M3 Mineral White 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcc3456 View Post
Nice theory, but itís not the tires. Even with snow tires on each car on a dry road the Alfa hooks up better. I had both in the garage at the same time. There is a meaningful difference.
My theory is the traction control is just way too intrusive. Tires donít get any chance to slip. I remember being amazed at how lenient my friends boss 302 is. Tires could slip for almost a full second before cutting throttle.

At first I thought it was the suspension, but with TC off the car still goes straight if the tires are spinning and steering wheel is pointed straight. Iím sure itís a mix of both but a more lenient TC would go such a long way.

MDM isnít that much better, but it helps. Wider tires help way more
Appreciate 1
RowanBuds1017.50

      02-05-2019, 11:18 PM   #17
Darth One
drunk poster
Darth One's Avatar
United_States
1682
Rep
2,131
Posts

Drives: M4 GTS | E46 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

I could barely make it past part 1. Nothing against those three guys, they seem like good dudes but there's just nothing interesting in what they're saying, except that it's good for the QF that the M3 owner seems to really like it.
Appreciate 1
      02-05-2019, 11:19 PM   #18
mcc3456
First Lieutenant
United_States
290
Rep
356
Posts

Drives: Best Sedan on Mkt
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: City of Champions

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntgarage44 View Post
My theory is the traction control is just way too intrusive. Tires donít get any chance to slip. I remember being amazed at how lenient my friends boss 302 is. Tires could slip for almost a full second before cutting throttle.

At first I thought it was the suspension, but with TC off the car still goes straight if the tires are spinning and steering wheel is pointed straight. Iím sure itís a mix of both but a more lenient TC would go such a long way.

MDM isnít that much better, but it helps. Wider tires help way more
Hate to shoot down your theory, but even in Race Mode (all safety systems off), the Alfa is still more sure-footed from a stop than the M3 even with all safety systems on. Part of it is likely the tuning (power delivery) and part is the more effective rear diff. Perhaps it is just more advanced being newer, but pretty sure the new M3 will resolve that blatant short-coming.
Appreciate 0
      02-05-2019, 11:24 PM   #19
mcc3456
First Lieutenant
United_States
290
Rep
356
Posts

Drives: Best Sedan on Mkt
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: City of Champions

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
I could barely make it past part 1. Nothing against those three guys, they seem like good dudes but there's just nothing interesting in what they're saying, except that it's good for the QF that the M3 owner seems to really like it.
At the end of the day, itís all personal opinion/preference, but overall they did accurately portray most of the unique differences. They are exactly that differences, not flaws or superior traits. You canít go wrong with either vehicle.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2019, 12:31 AM   #20
Lifted07Duramax
Major
71
Rep
1,445
Posts

Drives: 2008 BMW red 335i coupe
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: springfield, mo

iTrader: (1)

W205 C63 over M3/M4 all day long

And talking about a new M3 that could be AWD, well the W206 C63 is coming in 2021 so be ready lol
__________________
JB4 G5, VRSF catless DPs, FMIC, BMS DCI, Muffler Delete, Alpina B3 Flash, RB Turbos, BB Race Flash
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2019, 05:21 AM   #21
DS_BMW
Captain
DS_BMW's Avatar
United_States
430
Rep
994
Posts

Drives: 2017 M3 2017 GTI
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Lancaster PA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojipoji View Post
you california people are spoiled. LOL. come to new england where traction is a one season event. lol



Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
I just don't get the traction comments about the ZCP, at all. I can use nearly/fully 100% of the grunt on this thing in 2nd gear all the time, assuming warm/dry conditions, on stock PSS 285s.

Canyon runs... WOT in 2nd gear, coming out of tight corners... very, very hooked.

What am I missing?

Edit - I can easily break my E46 M3 loose if I try. My E90M3 was even easier, if I tried. Point is, a truly powerful car like the F80 will spin if provoked. So will a Corvette. Camaro. Mustang, etc.
I have just as much traction in the winter months with 285/30 PA4s. PSS are no good below 50*.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2019, 10:01 AM   #22
mcc3456
First Lieutenant
United_States
290
Rep
356
Posts

Drives: Best Sedan on Mkt
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: City of Champions

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS_BMW View Post
I have just as much traction in the winter months with 285/30 PA4s. PSS are no good below 50*.
Agreed. Actually had much better traction on my M3 with snowtires in the cold than on a 65 degree day with the PSS...and even just pulling out of my driveway, it was very noticeable.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST