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      12-09-2019, 01:20 PM   #1
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savagegeese F80 M3 review - "One of the best things BMW has done in modern history"

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Keep in mind that Mark is generally EXTREMELY critical of modern BMWs.

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      12-09-2019, 02:05 PM   #2
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Thanks for sharing very informative and make you appreciated more on the M vehicle.
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      12-09-2019, 04:19 PM   #3
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dude is extremely critical of everything. but I like how in depth he gets.

every M car has been different and you have to make trade offs. I think the F80, while not the most thrilling or exciting car to drive, is probably the best sporty/luxury DD on the market. 4 doors, manual, rwd… and comes in at 34-3500 pounds. I don't think any other company has a car like it. Maybe caddy but... ats-v is meh.
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      12-09-2019, 04:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
dude is extremely critical of everything. but I like how in depth he gets.

every M car has been different and you have to make trade offs. I think the F80, while not the most thrilling or exciting car to drive, is probably the best sporty/luxury DD on the market. 4 doors, manual, rwd and comes in at 34-3500 pounds. I don't think any other company has a car like it. Maybe caddy but... ats-v is meh.
Driven the ATS-V and CTS-V on autocross, I would have to say that they have very comfortable seats, good performance, but the BMW M3/M4 is a much more thrilling experience.
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      12-09-2019, 05:49 PM   #5
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Great video. Good talking points. Makes me appreciate the engineering in the f80 even more.
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      12-09-2019, 06:59 PM   #6
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"the engine is a stout engine" ... it drinks Guiness.

Good to know that they have stepped up to improve the durability. I bought mine several months before they shutdown the production line.
and, yes, the MT is perfectly tuned.
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      12-09-2019, 09:06 PM   #7
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Came here to post this review... big fan of Savage geese. I thought I knew a lot about F8Xs but just managed to learn a lot more, that's what's great about his channel. Well worth the 20 minutes of watch time... promise you'll learn something new.
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      12-09-2019, 09:31 PM   #8
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Savagegeese has always been very critical during his videos but he admits it as often as he can. In this video he does again admit it. He just love cars as much as the rest of us do, but he has a certain preference when it comes to what he likes and BMWs been going the opposite direction.
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      12-09-2019, 09:33 PM   #9
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Youtube is your friend.







The dude in the glasses nailed it. The F8X authentically appeals to those who really care to appreciate the motorsport derived and engineered details throughout.

Sure the C63, RS4, Guila Q, RCF are also wonderful cars, but none of them come close to the durability and reliability of the F8X. It's a huge loss for BMW M fans that Biermann moved over to Hyundai-Kia.

It's too bad he picked the ugliest wheel setup possible on any modern BMW. RVs would be jealous of that aesthetic.
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      12-09-2019, 10:54 PM   #10
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I didnt find that an especially complimentary review of the M3.
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      12-09-2019, 10:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
dude is extremely critical of everything. but I like how in depth he gets.

every M car has been different and you have to make trade offs. I think the F80, while not the most thrilling or exciting car to drive, is probably the best sporty/luxury DD on the market. 4 doors, manual, rwd and comes in at 34-3500 pounds. I don't think any other company has a car like it. Maybe caddy but... ats-v is meh.
34-3500 pounds? What did you take out of yours to get it there? Most are 3600ish.
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      12-10-2019, 12:23 AM   #12
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That headline to this thread misleading. It's one line out of a nearly 30 minute review.

I thought he hit the nail on the head with this review. Objectively you can't argue with how good the F8X is. But for those of us used to the E9X chassis, this car feels sterile and overly refined. At the end he summed it up correctly: the overwhelming majority of people don't want to feel any feedback through the steering. The M3/4, while a niche vehicle technically, still sells in the tens of thousands over the course of its lifespan. They consciously chose to dial out that "visceral" driving feeling that always defined BMW. What's left is a car that is objectively great on paper but subjectively somewhat boring.

At least they made the point of stating this problem isn't unique to BMW. Even modern Porsches are subjectively less "fun" than they used to be.
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      12-10-2019, 12:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
That headline to this thread misleading. It's one line out of a nearly 30 minute review.

I thought he hit the nail on the head with this review. Objectively you can't argue with how good the F8X is. But for those of us used to the E9X chassis, this car feels sterile and overly refined. At the end he summed it up correctly: the overwhelming majority of people don't want to feel any feedback through the steering. The M3/4, while a niche vehicle technically, still sells in the tens of thousands over the course of its lifespan. They consciously chose to dial out that "visceral" driving feeling that always defined BMW. What's left is a car that is objectively great on paper but subjectively somewhat boring.

At least they made the point of stating this problem isn't unique to BMW. Even modern Porsches are subjectively less "fun" than they used to be.
It was like he reluctantly recommended it, based on there really isn’t any four door track capable car (which he specifically said he doesn’t like the M3 on the track) that can be had in a manual. Sounds like it wins by default in his review.
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      12-10-2019, 01:51 AM   #14
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34-3500 pounds? What did you take out of yours to get it there? Most are 3600ish.
Most are also dct. I think manual saves like 60 pounds. Mine also has the carbon roof. Full leather, not extended. 10 gallons in the tank

Came out to 3460. My 458 italia was 3280 on the same scale with about the same gas in the tank.
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      12-10-2019, 01:54 AM   #15
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It was like he reluctantly recommended it, based on there really isn’t any four door track capable car (which he specifically said he doesn’t like the M3 on the track) that can be had in a manual. Sounds like it wins by default in his review.
True. It seems like comparison tests have picked the Giulia Quadrofoglio over the F80, but I don't believe the Giulia offers a stick shift. On top of the that interior is a notch below in quality, reliability is questionable, and the dealership experience is sad. i was at an Alfa dealer yesterday that and it felt like an old Dodge showroom with a couple Alfas and Maseratis thrown in.
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      12-10-2019, 06:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Most are also dct. I think manual saves like 60 pounds. Mine also has the carbon roof. Full leather, not extended. 10 gallons in the tank

Came out to 3460. My 458 italia was 3280 on the same scale with about the same gas in the tank.
Scales and weights are all over the place. My MT ZCP M3 with CF roof just extended leather and exec was 36XX. My base M4 CS (lightest version) came in at 3630. Minus 60 pounds for the DCT penalty still puts it in high 35XX. I really don’t see how a non CS M3 gets into the 34XX. M2s are barely that.

Edit: Both were on the same scales done at a BMW dealership by the shop foreman who is a long time BMW track rat/fan. Both also had between half a and 3/4 of a tank of gas IIRC.

Last edited by minn19; 12-10-2019 at 06:47 AM..
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      12-10-2019, 07:56 AM   #17
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Although in the end he admitted it is a great car, i found it interesting that he mentioned in the middle of the video he preferred something with a bit of "drama" (or something to that effect) and has character (i.e. is not necessarily easy to drive, but rewarding). Then he went on to explain how the F80 can be tail happy (the definition of Drama) and a challenge to drive.

So basically he said he didn't like the F80 because lacked character and drama, but mentioned the drama of driving it.
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      12-10-2019, 08:14 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pic18 View Post
Although in the end he admitted it is a great car, i found it interesting that he mentioned in the middle of the video he preferred something with a bit of "drama" (or something to that effect) and has character (i.e. is not necessarily easy to drive, but rewarding). Then he went on to explain how the F80 can be tail happy (the definition of Drama) and a challenge to drive.

So basically he said he didn't like the F80 because lacked character and drama, but mentioned the drama of driving it.
It is a hard car to put your finger on as it does everything so well, but so clinically sterile feeling at times. After owning three versions of them, I strangely get what he means. There is fun drama and not fun drama is what I think he was trying to put into words.

Also, IMO you can tell he doesn't like the drive of the car, but definitely appreciates the engineering and performance of it. He is trying very hard not to continually bash it from what I can tell.

Last edited by minn19; 12-10-2019 at 01:05 PM..
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      12-10-2019, 09:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pic18 View Post
Although in the end he admitted it is a great car, i found it interesting that he mentioned in the middle of the video he preferred something with a bit of "drama" (or something to that effect) and has character (i.e. is not necessarily easy to drive, but rewarding). Then he went on to explain how the F80 can be tail happy (the definition of Drama) and a challenge to drive.

So basically he said he didn't like the F80 because lacked character and drama, but mentioned the drama of driving it.
It is a hard car to put your finger on as it does everything so well, but so clinically sterile feeling at times. After owning three version of them I strangely get what he means. The is fun drama and not fun drama is what I think he was trying to put into words.

Also, IMO you can tell he doesn't like the drive of the car, but definitely appreciates the engineering and performance of it. He is trying very hard not to continually bash it from what I can tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pic18 View Post
Although in the end he admitted it is a great car, i found it interesting that he mentioned in the middle of the video he preferred something with a bit of "drama" (or something to that effect) and has character (i.e. is not necessarily easy to drive, but rewarding). Then he went on to explain how the F80 can be tail happy (the definition of Drama) and a challenge to drive.

So basically he said he didn't like the F80 because lacked character and drama, but mentioned the drama of driving it.
It is a hard car to put your finger on as it does everything so well, but so clinically sterile feeling at times. After owning three version of them I strangely get what he means. The is fun drama and not fun drama is what I think he was trying to put into words.

Also, IMO you can tell he doesn't like the drive of the car, but definitely appreciates the engineering and performance of it. He is trying very hard not to continually bash it from what I can tell.
The M3 is ineffable; in a good way!
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      12-10-2019, 11:24 AM   #20
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Great review for the geeks out there but I still don't get his point. He says its the best car in its sector and objectively better than the E92 in every way. Having owned both I would agree with his statement but this whole "emotional connection" stuff is rubbish IMO.

Emotional connection to a car is totally subjective there is no single car that if 100 people were to drive it each and everyone would make some kind of romantic bond to it. Everyone has different wants and needs from a car and some people might find the F8x much more of a car to connect to than the E92. Where as others might find more of a connection to a mini cooper than they would to say a 911 GT3, its all subjective.
Me personally I found them both to be about the same in that respect.

Also I find it laughable that "being too reliable" is not a negative against a car... u wot m8?? So now the fact the car doesn't break down every 2k miles is suddenly something we hate about current M cars? Lol lets not be silly here guys.

Personally the only downsides which I think everyone could agree on with the F8x was the price point base and the steep depreciation. Oh and maybe the sound when compared to its rivals? Other than that I would say F8x owners are a lucky bunch and are driving the best of breed in its sector of the market.
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      12-10-2019, 11:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011zx10R View Post
The M3 is ineffable; in a good way!
Some feel that way.

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Originally Posted by ZeCP View Post
Great review for the geeks out there but I still don't get his point. He says its the best car in its sector and objectively better than the E92 in every way. Having owned both I would agree with his statement but this whole "emotional connection" stuff is rubbish IMO.

Emotional connection to a car is totally subjective there is no single car that if 100 people were to drive it each and everyone would make some kind of romantic bond to it. Everyone has different wants and needs from a car and some people might find the F8x much more of a car to connect to than the E92. Where as others might find more of a connection to a mini cooper than they would to say a 911 GT3, its all subjective.
Me personally I found them both to be about the same in that respect.

Also I find it laughable that "being too reliable" is not a negative against a car... u wot m8?? So now the fact the car doesn't break down every 2k miles is suddenly something we hate about current M cars? Lol lets not be silly here guys.

Personally the only downsides which I think everyone could agree on with the F8x was the price point base and the steep depreciation. Oh and maybe the sound when compared to its rivals? Other than that I would say F8x owners are a lucky bunch and are driving the best of breed in its sector of the market.
Agreed except for the rubbish part. If he or others feel that way it isn't rubbish to them. I never fell in love with any of my M cars, came close to the CS (until BMW stepped in on the CS). and my MT ZCP for different reasons.

If I could moosh two cars together, I'd take the M3/4 cabin, ergonomics and build quality. Then combine it with the drivetrain, chassis/suspension from a GT350 or a ZL1.
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      12-10-2019, 11:44 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Scales and weights are all over the place. My MT ZCP M3 with CF roof just extended leather and exec was 36XX. My base M4 CS (lightest version) came in at 3630. Minus 60 pounds for the DCT penalty still puts it in high 35XX. I really dont see how a non CS M3 gets into the 34XX. M2s are barely that.

Edit: Both were on the same scales done at a BMW dealership by the shop foreman who is a long time BMW track rat/fan. Both also had between half a and 3/4 of a tank of gas IIRC.
M2s aren't any lighter than F80s. They may look smaller but that's it.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1003735

^ M3 with carbon ceramics and 1/2 tank less fuel is lighter than an M4. Both DCT.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1077612

^ 34xx for an F80, 19s, manual, extended leather, empty tank.
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