[yoandry]

I got caught.

[DesiRoc]

LOL ouch man sorry for such an unfortunate event. How much was the ticket?

Nice blacklines btw.

[ChasVS]

Running a red light... That sucks dude. Don't feel bad for ya!

[SilverII]

looks like rain is on the way

[bumere90]

Good thing you weren't the only one

[Hey Ant]

I thought camera tickets are voluntary payment only? or is it only in CA?

[RupertPupkin]

As lame as the ticket is...thats a pretty cool shot.

[username604]

Originally Posted by ChasVS

Running a red light... That sucks dude. Don't feel bad for ya!

He didn't purposely run a red light... he ran a yellow that turned red on his ass.

Originally Posted by Hey Ant

I thought camera tickets are voluntary payment only? or is it only in CA?

who would volunteer to pay a $400 ticket

[Brey335i]

Cool shot of the car. Almost worth it

[Jace_91]

From south west florida my self, hate all the red light cams down there. Its pretty easy to fight though, can't you just tell them you didn't believe you could safely stop in time or some bs

[B-737]

oh man you werent even close lol! the black lines look great though

they installed those in my town and have had a huge increase in cars getting rear ended at that intersection from people jamming on their brakes for yellow lights. they are trying to get it removed.

at least its no points OP....

[nogard13]

Originally Posted by yoandry

I got caught.

Several things for you to consider:

1. Your two front tires were legally in the intersection when the light turned red. Therefore, you have a legal right to continue on your way and traverse the intersection. You should not be ticketed if your actions were legal.

2. The picture does not provide enough evidence (unless there is another one with all four tires behind the line and showing the light as red) to combat argument #1, therefore, insufficient evidence exists to "convict" you of the infraction (the burden of proof is on the state here, not you).

3. Fines for camera infractions are not equal to fines given by cops. This violates the equal protection clause of the US and FL Constitutions. However, since you are on the lower side, and it favors you, a Judge might not dismiss the case simply based on this argument (though, legally, he should).

4. The state MUST prove that you were driving the car. You cannot be penalized for someone else's actions here. You can always claim that it wasn't you driving the car and that "to the best of your knowledge, you cannot recollect who the driver was at that time. All you know is that it wasn't you." I'm not telling you to lie, just giving you an option. Again, since the burden of proof is on the State, they must prove you were driving (when you're pulled over, the officer is the witness, but that doesn't apply to camera tickets).

Just a few things to think about. Also, do some research (or hire a lawyer) because some cameras are run by private companies, not the states, and depending on how the law is written in FL, you might not have to pay the fine, anyway. In Arizona, for example, not paying the fine means you owe the company the money, not the state. Therefore, the state will not penalize you but the company can take you to collections. Then you can take the company to small claims court and, if they can't prove it's you who owes them the money (picture of you driving while committing the infraction), the court will usually rule in your favor.

Good luck!

[michaelthepsycho]

Awwww..... Nice M Tech rear, though!

[TroyDeJ]

cool rolling shot!
ive heard you legally have to face your prosecutor and if its a camera giving the ticket then there is no prosecutor to face.

[ceb]

Originally Posted by nogard13

Several things for you to consider:

1. Your two front tires were legally in the intersection when the light turned red. Therefore, you have a legal right to continue on your way and traverse the intersection. You should not be ticketed if your actions were legal.

2. The picture does not provide enough evidence (unless there is another one with all four tires behind the line and showing the light as red) to combat argument #1, therefore, insufficient evidence exists to "convict" you of the infraction (the burden of proof is on the state here, not you).

3. Fines for camera infractions are not equal to fines given by cops. This violates the equal protection clause of the US and FL Constitutions. However, since you are on the lower side, and it favors you, a Judge might not dismiss the case simply based on this argument (though, legally, he should).

4. The state MUST prove that you were driving the car. You cannot be penalized for someone else's actions here. You can always claim that it wasn't you driving the car and that "to the best of your knowledge, you cannot recollect who the driver was at that time. All you know is that it wasn't you." I'm not telling you to lie, just giving you an option. Again, since the burden of proof is on the State, they must prove you were driving (when you're pulled over, the officer is the witness, but that doesn't apply to camera tickets).

Just a few things to think about. Also, do some research (or hire a lawyer) because some cameras are run by private companies, not the states, and depending on how the law is written in FL, you might not have to pay the fine, anyway. In Arizona, for example, not paying the fine means you owe the company the money, not the state. Therefore, the state will not penalize you but the company can take you to collections. Then you can take the company to small claims court and, if they can't prove it's you who owes them the money (picture of you driving while committing the infraction), the court will usually rule in your favor.

Good luck!

Not quite. They have his speed and the length of time the light was red at the moment the photo was taken so they can determine where he was when the light turned red.

In many jurisdictions, the law assumes that the registered owner committed the infraction unless the registered owner identifies the driver.

[chip2058]

Originally Posted by ceb

Not quite. They have his speed and the length of time the light was red at the moment the photo was taken so they can determine where he was when the light turned red.

In many jurisdictions, the law assumes that the registered owner committed the infraction unless the registered owner identifies the driver.

True but it says he was going 42 mph and the light had been red for .7 seconds. Therefore if he was just flowing with traffic and didn't catch the yellow he could not have possibly had enough time to stop the car safely :-)

[Bumer]

Originally Posted by Brey335i

Cool shot of the car. Almost worth it

agree

[eisenb11]

Originally Posted by chip2058

True but it says he was going 42 mph and the light had been red for .7 seconds. Therefore if he was just flowing with traffic and didn't catch the yellow he could not have possibly had enough time to stop the car safely :-)

Yeah, but that excuse won't fly because the yellow light was supposed to give him ample opportunity to stop. The fact that he's still going 42 when the light turned red means that he wasn't likely trying to accelerate through it (too slow) but that he probably wasn't paying attention and didn't catch the yellow light at all.

While the action wasn't likely done on purpose, it was still done and is still illegal and ticketable.

[j2m]

Yeah, that definitely does not look like you driving
I just got a speeding ticket in the mail, from my recent visit to AZ. The pic was crystal clear, my face and my kids in the back seat. That sucked!
Get a passport, mine goes nuts every time there's a red light cam!

[nogard13]

Originally Posted by chip2058

True but it says he was going 42 mph and the light had been red for .7 seconds. Therefore if he was just flowing with traffic and didn't catch the yellow he could not have possibly had enough time to stop the car safely :-)

I did the calculations, and he would've been traveling at roughly 62 feet per second. That means he's traveled about 43 feet since the light turned red, but his tires are only about 3 feet past the line.

However, there are still no witnesses as to who the driver is and the burden of proof still falls on the state. If the owner denies driving, and then observes his legal right to remain silent past that, there won't be enough evidence to prove guilt. However, since these are handled in Traffic Court, and Traffic Court is civil, not criminal, the burden of proof is fairly easy to determine. It is worth a shot, though. As is arguing for the Equal Protection clause.

You also have a right to face your accuser, so all maintenance records and data pertaining to that camera are available to subpoena. Maybe you'll find that it hasn't been serviced in a while and it's past it's date? Also, the speed measuring device should fall under scrutiny, since it has to be inspected, calibrated and certified every X amount of time, and it has to be done by an approved, independent party.

I once got out of a ticket by asking the right question at my traffic hearing. I asked the cop if he had calibrated the radar gun he used that day, and he said "yes, I calibrated it at the beginning and end of my shift." I then turned to the judge and quoted the California Vehicle Code, which states that the radar guns can only be calibrated by an independent third party (at the time, only UC Davis was certified to calibrate for the entire state). The judge had to throw out my ticket. Of course, what the cop meant to say was that he checked the equipment, not that he calibrated it, but not everyone will catch on to that question and he cannot recant his testimony or else everything he's said in court becomes suspect.

Again, good luck.

[issabmw]

Nice bumper.

Bummer though

[username604]

Originally Posted by nogard13

I did the calculations, and he would've been traveling at roughly 62 feet per second. That means he's traveled about 43 feet since the light turned red, but his tires are only about 3 feet past the line.

I haven't read all of your posts, but from what i understand, that picture shows his two front wheels passing the line 0.7 seconds after the light turned red. Also, yellow means slow down, not try to catch the light. Lastly, the cameras (at least in SoCal) take pictures from all sides including the front (and therefore into the cabin) and a video recording of the event.
I've been flashed at, and i never received a ticket, i believe you have a .3-.4 second buffer of running a red light depending on the speed limit.