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      11-12-2012, 01:18 AM   #1
AshyLarryMP
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Predicting F80 M3 2014 performance using new M6 2013

I just watch a review on the new M6 on M6post. Thanks to the turbos, it has 552 hp and a combined fuel economy of 28 mpg. There are some great things about it, but they said it wasn't as much fun to drive as past M cars. It shares the same engine with the new M5 and I'm guessing the new M3 should have a similar feel to both of them. This worries me a little because I would rather BMW produce M cars that are fun to drive.

Is anyone extremely concerned about this? It doesn't seem like too many of you are anxiously awaiting the new M3 setup.

And btw...Do any of you like M5's or M6's more than M3's? I've never been in a M5 or M6, but the M3 seems like it would be more fun to drive.

Last edited by AshyLarryMP; 11-12-2012 at 01:30 AM. Reason: mistakes
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      11-12-2012, 01:46 AM   #2
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M5/M6 keep getting panned on the electric steering having no feel.
They're suppose to come out with a new system for the next M3.
Are people here excited? I think most will be because most are relatively new to /M and don't care what kind of engine it has, as long as it has an //M badge on it, they'll buy it.

.
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      11-12-2012, 02:48 AM   #3
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I've driven the new M5 extensively (and the M6 but only for a short amount of time) and it's great if you're looking for a fast commuter car. It's really comfortable, spacious, and fast. It's REALLY FAST for a sedan that size plus the torque hits early at about 1500-2000 rpm. Downside is that it's so big that you don't feel the speed or the road for that matter. When I was driving it, I would frequently be going at 60-70 mph but thought I was going 40. I can't compare it to the E60 M5 because the last time I drove one was 5 years ago.

Comparing it to my M, I think that the M3 is more fun to drive because you feel more connected with the car. I think it's from the hydraulic steering along with all the noise associated with the car such as high revving, road noise, etc. With the M5 the steering is very light and artificial. The engine noise is there because of the stereo but nothing else. You feel like you're in a room with a audio recording playing in the background which I personally found kind of weird.

I personally think(hope) the new M3 will be fun to drive because it's the bread and butter of ///M. I'm pretty sure BMW will find ways to make it fun and enjoyable to drive.
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      11-12-2012, 08:06 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
M5/M6 keep getting panned on the electric steering having no feel.
They're suppose to come out with a new system for the next M3.
Are people here excited? I think most will be because most are relatively new to /M and don't care what kind of engine it has, as long as it has an //M badge on it, they'll buy it.

.
M5/M6 uses a hydraulic setup. Unfortunately, the feel/feedback could be better. The M3 is definitely the better drive. The M5 is no slouch, but due to its extreme level of comfort and effortless torque, u need to be driving at crazy speeds to feel excited, which is both dangerous and irresponsible on public roads. The M3 with that glorious S65, feels the occasion each time u press the throttle
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      11-12-2012, 08:13 AM   #5
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If reported rumors on this site are any indicator, the car will produce similar power levels, but be up 100lbft of torque.
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      11-12-2012, 08:24 AM   #6
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M5/6 are not aimed at the same demographic. It isn't in BMW's interest to make the M5/6 a harder edged car but for the M3/4 they will likely keep the driving dynamics and feel of the present M3. We'll see. I hope I'm right.
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      11-12-2012, 08:53 AM   #7
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Someone gets it. BMW is changing their entire market strategy for the future. If I'm correct, there will be the 1&2 series, the 3&4, 5&6, plus the 7. Even numbered cars will be coupes/gran coupes, odd numbered cars will be sedans/hatchbacks/wagons/GTs (which means the M3 coupe actually is going to be called an M4). What I think BMW's plan is, is to stratify the different series's to appeal to different people on different levels.
1&2 series are going to be like the 3 series initially was: small, light, nimble, agile, the entry level car to the BMW brand, but also the most hardcore driver-oriented car. The M2 will be a lot like the E30/E36 M3 and the 1M, amazing at handling and some of the best driver's cars ever made.
The 5&6 will be the most luxury and status oriented in the BMW lineup (other than the 7 obviously) and will concern themselves more with comfort and whatnot as opposed to feel and agility. I mean look at the F10 5er. The sound deadening is so good that you can barely hear the engine, even in the 560hp M5. Its a luxury car and it will sell more as a luxury item because that's normally what most people will buy a 5 series for anyways.
As for 3&4, I believe will be a comfortable medium between the hardcore driver's car (1&2) and the soft, cushy status symbols (5&6).

Personally think (if I'm right that this is BMWs plan) that it is GENIUS. Everyone gets what they want.
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      11-12-2012, 09:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majdnoon View Post
Someone gets it. BMW is changing their entire market strategy for the future. If I'm correct, there will be the 1&2 series, the 3&4, 5&6, plus the 7. Even numbered cars will be coupes/gran coupes, odd numbered cars will be sedans/hatchbacks/wagons/GTs (which means the M3 coupe actually is going to be called an M4). What I think BMW's plan is, is to stratify the different series's to appeal to different people on different levels.
1&2 series are going to be like the 3 series initially was: small, light, nimble, agile, the entry level car to the BMW brand, but also the most hardcore driver-oriented car. The M2 will be a lot like the E30/E36 M3 and the 1M, amazing at handling and some of the best driver's cars ever made.
The 5&6 will be the most luxury and status oriented in the BMW lineup (other than the 7 obviously) and will concern themselves more with comfort and whatnot as opposed to feel and agility. I mean look at the F10 5er. The sound deadening is so good that you can barely hear the engine, even in the 560hp M5. Its a luxury car and it will sell more as a luxury item because that's normally what most people will buy a 5 series for anyways.
As for 3&4, I believe will be a comfortable medium between the hardcore driver's car (1&2) and the soft, cushy status symbols (5&6).

Personally think (if I'm right that this is BMWs plan) that it is GENIUS. Everyone gets what they want.
I agree with that. I am more excited for the M2 (about which I know nothing) than I am for the M3 (I will not use M4).
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      11-12-2012, 09:32 AM   #9
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I'm hoping for a slight bump in HP to 430 and TQ to be at 400 even, with a weight reduction of around 500 lbs.

I just watched a YouTube video of MotorTrend's Behind the Scenes 2012 Car of the Year episode and the 328 is in the video and being compared to the Caddy ATS. The editors all agreed the steering is better in the Caddy than the BMW and "never thought this day would come".

///M please, let this be a lesson...
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      11-12-2012, 12:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AshyLarryMP View Post
I just watch a review on the new M6 on M6post. Thanks to the turbos, it has 552 hp and a combined fuel economy of 28 mpg. There are some great things about it, but they said it wasn't as much fun to drive as past M cars. It shares the same engine with the new M5 and I'm guessing the new M3 should have a similar feel to both of them. This worries me a little because I would rather BMW produce M cars that are fun to drive.

Is anyone extremely concerned about this? It doesn't seem like too many of you are anxiously awaiting the new M3 setup.

And btw...Do any of you like M5's or M6's more than M3's? I've never been in a M5 or M6, but the M3 seems like it would be more fun to drive.
I was surprised to see the new M5 finishing last/next to last in pretty much every comparo so far. The steering and lack of sportscar feel must be pretty bad because BMW sure upped the ante on power and fuel economy.

We'll see how the next gen M3 fares, but it doesn't look promising if you are using the M5/6 as the predictor. For those who want the extra HP and economy, perhaps we'll need to wait for the first company to figure out how to squeeze a turbo under the hood without major body/chasis modifications.
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      11-12-2012, 02:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVMA Doc View Post
I was surprised to see the new M5 finishing last/next to last in pretty much every comparo so far.
That is not at all true. It has done very well on Top Gear, 5th Gear and Evo being seen as still the class leader. Only Autocar had a few reservations, but still thought it was excellent. The American magazines are useless, I would check out the English options or taking a test drive.
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      11-13-2012, 12:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snig View Post
If reported rumors on this site are any indicator, the car will produce similar power levels, but be up 100lbft of torque.
And that "claim" was fairly well debunked as pretty well impossible by multple forum members. In short the following are not compatible:

-A torque curve like the new M5
-A 7000 rpm redline
-420 hp and 400 ft lb of torque

Make a spreadsheet or do the math.

Something just have to give. I strongly suspect the car will indeed have about 400 ft lb of torque but quite a bit more than 420 hp. Under rating is also pretty likely IMHO.
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      11-13-2012, 12:16 AM   #13
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Quote:
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I'm hoping for ... a weight reduction of around 500 lbs.
Not possible.

There has been tons of discussion on this point. The car is physically larger and the new base 3 series car F30 is about the same weight as the existing car. BWM M will indeed be placing more emphasis on weight and there will be more aluminum, more high strength steel, more composites and more hollow/lightened parts. But also many parts will need to be heavier and stronger such as transmission, differential, brakes, wheels, engine, etc.
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      11-13-2012, 08:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
And that "claim" was fairly well debunked as pretty well impossible by multple forum members. In short the following are not compatible:

-A torque curve like the new M5
-A 7000 rpm redline
-420 hp and 400 ft lb of torque

Make a spreadsheet or do the math.

Something just have to give. I strongly suspect the car will indeed have about 400 ft lb of torque but quite a bit more than 420 hp. Under rating is also pretty likely IMHO.
I honestly hope the F80 will be up on power more than the the E9x.
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      11-13-2012, 04:57 PM   #15
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I agree with swamp2.

Good luck shaving 500lbs off the car. Doesn't seem likely that BMW can accomplish this without extensive CF use. That much CF is not going to happen at this price point. I'm guessing the new car weighs about the same or perhaps 100lbs less than the current M3. It could even end up weighing a bit more, but I think M will try their best to keep weight down.
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      11-13-2012, 05:35 PM   #16
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This is like predicting c63 performance from a s65...
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      11-20-2012, 10:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
M5/M6 keep getting panned on the electric steering having no feel.
They're suppose to come out with a new system for the next M3.
Are people here excited? I think most will be because most are relatively new to /M and don't care what kind of engine it has, as long as it has an //M badge on it, they'll buy it.

.
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      11-20-2012, 12:35 PM   #18
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Each M3 has been less fun than the one before it since the beginning (at least when comparing the E36 with the S50b3x motors), but they've been faster. This one will continue the trend.
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      11-20-2012, 03:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
M5/M6 keep getting panned on the electric steering having no feel.
They're suppose to come out with a new system for the next M3.
Are people here excited? I think most will be because most are relatively new to /M and don't care what kind of engine it has, as long as it has an //M badge on it, they'll buy it.

.
M5 and M6 have hydraulic.


I agree with the rest of your statement though.
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      11-20-2012, 04:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
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M5 and M6 have hydraulic.


I agree with the rest of your statement though.
If they have hydraulic and still have numb steering, that's pretty sad.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      11-20-2012, 05:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
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If they have hydraulic and still have numb steering, that's pretty sad.
I know.
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      11-25-2012, 07:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghetto2315 View Post
with a weight reduction of around 500 lbs.
....Caddy ATS. The editors all agreed the steering is better in the Caddy than the BMW and "never thought this day would come".

///M please, let this be a lesson...
No way -500 lbs. If they cut 200 they'll be doing well, ~ -300 to ~3400 would be great. Fair pt re steering.
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