07-10-2013, 07:43 AM | #1 |
Moderator
7525
Rep 19,368
Posts |
M3 / M4 V6 Speculation
Despite verbal confirmation from a BMW official over a year ago, as well as spy photos showing what is from all indicators an I6 engine under the hood of an M3:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=694375 Speculation - fueled primarily by supposed insiders elsewhere around the internet - persists surrounding the possibility of a V6 engine instead. This thread is the place to discuss such theories. Break out the tinfoils hats, folks. More past discussions: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=516496 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=533140 The genesis of the V6 rumors and initial reactions: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242541 |
|
08-05-2013, 02:37 PM | #2 |
New Member
0
Rep 6
Posts |
V6 Speculation
Hello,
This is my first post here. Last weekend I drove Behind a M4. I have a tuned 135i And We were on Autobahn. I am from Germany... In my opinion this can't really be an 3.0 R6... And you will see this in a few time!!! I hope u remember this post then. Sound is nothing like N55/54 it's 95Percent a V6!!! Like I said before this is my first post and you dint know me but I was 5-10 minutes behind him and it sounds nothing like R or 3.0... Picture in the following link. At all People here don't believe all the infos u read about engine here. I know BMW chief of you said R6 but don't give too much on this or existing VIn !!! And if you don't believe me then give it the chance of 50:50. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-06-2013, 01:24 AM | #3 | |
Lieutenant General
612
Rep 10,407
Posts |
Quote:
Given the changes to sound based on the intake and exhaust systems, especially with forced induction systems, I do not believe one can use their hearing alone to distinguish between an I6 vs. V6. I also don't believe one can tell the difference between a 10% variation (or even 25% or more for that matter) in displacement. Now the fact that it won't sound like a tuned 135i, that makes perfect sense to me.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK | | Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors | | Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels | | XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit | |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-06-2013, 01:55 AM | #4 |
New Member
0
Rep 6
Posts |
Hello swamp2,
I See your Point and I expected nothing else... The only thing I want to say is that I wouldn't trust it will sure be this I6. The things you wrote to me are the same. You can't trust something until its released/ official. VIN or unofficial statements are no evidence. It's only two Pros but there are cons too. And there is a possibility or good reason that some people(Bmw included) made wrong information just to hide real specs. I think time will tell and I don't want to convince somebody. My only concern is Dont jump to the conclusion it must be N55 tuned. This sounds not like the scientific way... Greetings from Germany😊 Thorsten |
Appreciate
0
|
08-06-2013, 02:04 AM | #5 | |
Major General
5459
Rep 7,037
Posts |
Quote:
Last edited by solstice; 08-06-2013 at 02:29 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-06-2013, 02:35 AM | #6 |
New Member
0
Rep 6
Posts |
Hello solstice,
it sounded something like the Maserati when he revved up. Sound was Really Good in my Opinion. Nothing like Ricer Or so, it sounded more like grown up... Acceleration was immense. Another Good Thing was how quick it went into corners. It Cornered very fast and he doesnt Wanted that i Follow him any longer... This was Mad Speed in Corners!!! But i dont want you to think i am a Fanboy. But Since i saw it in Action i am in Love with Sound, Performance and Looks.. Hopefully My next Car... Like i Said before dont judge the Car Til you dont know all Details... I know i an emotional now but this has a Good reason Last edited by Tose111; 08-06-2013 at 03:04 AM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-06-2013, 01:28 PM | #7 |
Brigadier General
435
Rep 3,888
Posts |
Many times me and some other said the M3/M4 was going to get a V6 engine, but there has always been a possibility of an I6.
M3/M4 is taking on GT-R. In fact it will be not much slower than 1st version GT-R. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-06-2013, 02:11 PM | #8 |
Major General
5459
Rep 7,037
Posts |
One thing is for sure, with so much "leaked" info already official and unofficial BMW has us still guessing about pretty much everything even core parts as the engine type. Can't wait for the concept and hopefully some more clarity in a few main areas. I can't recall being so excited about a car in a very long time.
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-06-2013, 04:35 PM | #10 |
Major General
1722
Rep 5,110
Posts |
IF BMW goes for a V6, then that is a major change in engine architecture for a BMW 6 cyl. Would be really interesting if they did that, and would also mean that it would be a "M only" engine But, somehow I am inclined to lean towards a I6 engine at the moment (based on some sources like VIN and photos of the engine bay - If not an I6 then BMW has really done a lot to make us believe it, with a test mule that clearly has a I6 engine in it with the bonnet open... That would actually be awesome if BMW built a I6 car for testing and media leaks and then reveal a V6 M3/4 )
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-06-2013, 05:24 PM | #11 | |
Lieutenant General
612
Rep 10,407
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK | | Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors | | Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels | | XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit | |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-06-2013, 05:28 PM | #12 |
Lieutenant General
612
Rep 10,407
Posts |
I believe it will be. The original GT-R probably had around 530 hp (it was definitively underrated). That makes its power to weight significantly better than a 450 hp 3400 lb M4 and those figures are optimistic for the M4. The GT-R is also (obviously) a beast off of the line due to not only AWD but a very advanced ATESSA ET-S AWD system.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK | | Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors | | Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels | | XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit | |
Appreciate
0
|
08-08-2013, 02:03 AM | #13 | |
Lieutenant
106
Rep 585
Posts |
Quote:
Therefore, I would guess at the moment:
Greets Uli_HH P.S. this are only my assumptions ... lets look who near they are at reality !!! Last edited by Uli_HH; 08-08-2013 at 02:13 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-08-2013, 04:14 AM | #14 | |
Lieutenant General
612
Rep 10,407
Posts |
Quote:
However, I don't think you numbers are entirely consistent. We do also need to consider actual tested values vs. BMW quoted values. I'm assuming for the performance numbers you are quoting actual measured numbers not the overly conservative numbers BMW always provides?
All of this being said, I firmly agree about the importance of production costs and that they far outweigh the development costs. More reason to favor the I6!
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK | | Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors | | Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels | | XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit | Last edited by swamp2; 08-08-2013 at 04:19 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-08-2013, 04:24 AM | #15 | |
Major General
1722
Rep 5,110
Posts |
Quote:
Not sure how reliable your sources are, but this just makes me look even more forward to the official details of the next gen M3/M4 And, the current gen M3 has a engine that is exclusive to the M3 (based on the M5 V10). Going to be interesting to see what they are doing for the next gen BMW and a V6, after all these years of I6... |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-08-2013, 05:29 AM | #16 | |
Lieutenant
106
Rep 585
Posts |
Quote:
To Point 2: I think 580Nm is with the overboost function ... and the the V6 has clearly much more potential than my numbers. And for the weight ... the new M3/M4 will have the lightest chasis ever build in at an car like this, also with carbon composite components ... it will have the lowest unsprung masses you can imagine. Overall when you think about the new BMW carbon composite you must forget things like the M3 roof or Vorsteiner Parts ... look at the i3 and you see what I meen. Greets Uli_HH Last edited by Uli_HH; 08-08-2013 at 05:49 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-08-2013, 08:18 AM | #17 |
TIM YOYO
1505
Rep 3,282
Posts
Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL
|
A V6 certainly would be interesting. BMW clings to the I6 because of its inherent balance. The I6 and V12 are considered the "perfect" engine design when it comes to balance of 1st and 2nd order forces. Everything else is a compromise. Maybe the time has come when BMW too will compromise.
As great as an I6 is, there are downsides. It trades packaging dimensions for balance. An I6 is very long for its displacement. When comparing linear dimension to volumetric measurement, a cube is the most efficient simple geometric shape, and it's easy to see how the space requirements of a V6 are much closer to a cube-shape than an I6.
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport |
Appreciate
0
|
08-08-2013, 10:36 AM | #18 |
Lieutenant Colonel
50
Rep 1,730
Posts |
I'm not really sure why BMW would switch over to a V6, what are the advantages other than what I understand to be easier turbo plumbing on the exhaust manifolds? Seems like most companies go with a V6 either for space considerations (i.e. transverse mounts) or platform flexibility. BMW has always been a RWD first company, therefore, they can package the engine far behind the front axle with the idea that they will never directly drive the front axle. There's also the added benefit of more optimal F/R weight balance. The I6 is inherently balanced (which I naively assume would allow it to rev higher with all else being equal), and doesn't require fancy dual exhausts to get a proper note. Plus, I thought BMW was going to leverage at least the block from the N55...doesn't seem to make much sense to retool a plant to build a completely different engine.
If you take the Audi B8 MLB platform (not trying to be a fanboy, it's just a platform I understand), there is always the notion that the next gen passat or other VW car will use the platform in an east/west engine layout. The F30 chassis will never be used for a FWD car. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-08-2013, 11:09 AM | #20 |
Moderator
7525
Rep 19,368
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-08-2013, 12:37 PM | #21 |
Major General
5459
Rep 7,037
Posts |
I also think it's unlikely based on the leaks/spy photos but from an R&D and production point of view I don't see any problem. BMW has mutilated an M5 engine before to create the M3 engine and the component sharing between all of the M engines ( M3, M4, M5, X6M, X5M, M6, M6GC ) could potentially save more in the long run than re-using the tools for the N55 block and then use all M3 specific components. It's not as clear cut from a cost planning perspective as it can look from a glance. And a V6 is more compact leaving more space for trciked out multi turbo setups. I'd put it at 60 (I6)/40(V6) at this point. I was at 90/10 but I'm starting to wobble on that.
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-08-2013, 02:00 PM | #22 | |
Major General
4465
Rep 9,160
Posts |
Quote:
F30 335i: E90 M3: F10 M5: |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Bookmarks |
|
|