Fresh turbos and an Ethanol newbie (issues)

[Nothing]

I recently went all out on my 2016 M3. Upgraded to Pure Stage 2+, BM3 flex fuel, LPFP, HPFP, injectors and fresh NGK 97506 along with other various supporting mods.

The car ran great on pump gas after I picked it up. I flashed my Cary Jordan custom tune and threw some ethanol in. I was shooting for E30 but the app said I was around E25. It was my first time guessing how to blend at the pump using E85Cal App. A few miles down the road (no pulls or anything as the kids were in the car with me) the car was struggling to get home. Running rich and misfiring like crazy. Contacted Cary, he said check the plugs. Plugs were black soot covered and gapped a bit bigger than 0.02. I regapped and got 3 of them gapped properly. The other 3 need another go. I’m currently on a stent of work at the hospital so I’ve left it until I’m off tomorrow.

Here are the questions:

Most people, including my tuner, say to run the NGKs and at 0.02. But after all this I’m curious how/why this gap could be such a tiny bit off and yet matter so much that the car won’t run properly. How are you able to run true flex fuel of E30, E50, E85 and everything in between and not have issues if my 0.021 (user error) plugs are causing misfires in an E25 blend?

Should I be running the BMW flex fuel plugs that are 2 steps colder?

Should I be looking into the B58 coil pack upgrade to get a stronger spark to overcome the gap issues?

I’m this far in to the build that I just want to finish this up so I can drive and enjoy the car but also know that it will work as smoothly as I perceived it to be when people talk about flex fuel cars. I don’t remember GM’s flex fuel systems having issues with minute gap sizes like I’m experiencing.

Thanks for your time and knowledge. 👍

[n8dgr84]

Get the Flex Fuel plugs.
97506 are trash for ethanol.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...mw-12120042724
Gap them to .02 and see how it goes.

If you still get blowout and/or excessive timing corrections (4 deg + on multiple cylinders) consider the Nexsys B58 kit. I'm running the B58 coils and Flex Fuel plugs at .028" gap.

[Nothing]

Originally Posted by n8dgr84

Get the Flex Fuel plugs.
97506 are trash for ethanol.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...mw-12120042724
Gap them to .02 and see how it goes.

If you still get blowout and/or excessive timing corrections (4 deg + on multiple cylinders) consider the Nexsys B58 kit. I'm running the B58 coils and Flex Fuel plugs at .028" gap.

Thanks, I’ll try those plugs. What ethanol blend do you typically run?

[astris]

I run the BMW-12120042724 plugs gapped to .019. Full flex and I typically run high E content (usually in the E60-E80 range). Never had a single hiccup from pump 92, though every interval imaginable, up to full E85.

[Nothing]

Originally Posted by astris

I run the BMW-12120042724 plugs gapped to .019. Full flex and I typically run high E content (usually in the E60-E80 range). Never had a single hiccup from pump 92, though every interval imaginable, up to full E85.

That’s awesome news. Are you running stock coil packs?

[astris]

Originally Posted by Nothing

That’s awesome news. Are you running stock coil packs?

Yep, but specifically get the Eldors.

https://www.urotuning.com/products/i...42116283924673

BMW-12120042724 plugs (gapped to your tuners preference) with Eldor coils and you’re all set. If you use these and still have issues… it’s your tuner.

[DeezBluBallz]

F8S plugs is the way.

[Nothing]

Originally Posted by astris

Yep, but specifically get the Eldors.

https://www.urotuning.com/products/i...42116283924673

BMW-12120042724 plugs (gapped to your tuners preference) with Eldor coils and you’re all set. If you use these and still have issues… it’s your tuner.

Thank you for the information.I ordered those plugs and paid extra to get them shipped two days. My tuner is Cary Jordan so I doubt I should have issues with my tuner. I specifically wanted somebody who was well known in this community.

[Nothing]

I just installed the new plugs and I’m still experiencing issues with the tune.

[lookitsapples]

Originally Posted by Nothing

I just installed the new plugs and I’m still experiencing issues with the tune.

Damn any insight from Cary? At this point you have the legit blueprint of how to make power safely

[prisco]

Hired Jordan to tune my car with PS2+ and had a very bad experience. My friend also had issues with Cary on his Pure800 Supra.

I would considerer another tuner.

Originally Posted by Nothing

Thank you for the information.I ordered those plugs and paid extra to get them shipped two days. My tuner is Cary Jordan so I doubt I should have issues with my tuner. I specifically wanted somebody who was well known in this community.

[Nothing]

Originally Posted by prisco

Hired Jordan to tune my car with PS2+ and had a very bad experience. My friend also had issues with Cary on his Pure800 Supra.

I would considerer another tuner.

Who do you suggest? F80Paul?

[b_w.]

Originally Posted by Nothing

Who do you suggest? F80Paul?

motiv. bend. lots of guys seem to like ab performance.

f80 paul offered no help when I ran into problems.

[n8dgr84]

Originally Posted by Nothing

Thanks, I’ll try those plugs. What ethanol blend do you typically run?

E8 (gasoline) up to E63 (what we get from local E85 pump.)

[n8dgr84]

Originally Posted by b_w.

motiv. bend. lots of guys seem to like ab performance.

f80 paul offered no help when I ran into problems.

I went from F80Paul to Ata_T1T local tuner fixed a bunch of issues from my "custom tune".

[Nothing]

First, thank you to everyone offering insight in to this.

astris, I got the plugs faster than the coils. Tried to use just the plugs at the 0.019 gap. The Eldor coils will be here Monday. I’ll try them out on Tuesday without changing the gap (see below if that does/doesn’t make sense).

The BM3 Wi-Fi dongle and wireless CarPlay are fighting to connect so I got a physical adapter to fix that. Today I flashed to the OTS BM3 2H E30 tune. I did not touch the additional parameters as this is something I was told not to touch within the tune from Cary. You guys will have to advise me on whether I need to make those alterations.

Let me also point out that my app says I’m running an E25 blend. Is that an issue on the BM3 OTS map?

Started the car ran at idle. I’m getting misfires on cylinders 1 & 6, but I’m also getting rich fuel mix in those cylinders. This is a little different from my last log (before the new plugs) that said I had misfires in 1, 5 & 6.

> Could the coil packs fix that?
> Are my misfires due to a rich fuel mix?
> I’m planning to drop an E-Mail to Bend Calibration, F80Paul and another tuner or two that was recommended here in the thread. Feel free to tag them if you want.
> If I’m never able to get this running, am I SOL on the money spent with Cary?


Bimmer Performance Center is a known BMW group here in my city. While I feel bad that they didn’t do my crank hub, turbos etc… I know they do dyno tuning and I’m honestly exhausted at trying to do all of this via the internet. If I decided to go this route and find a solution, I’ll let you guys know. In the mean time, I’m still searching for a solution.

n8dgr84 link to Tier1Tuning?

[Anonymoose]

Just sent you a pm. Also know that NC ethanol widely varies and I wouldn’t run flex fuel unless I had an inline filter.

[Nothing]

Update: I installed the Eldor coils and nothing changed.

The car was running fine on pump gas for the first 15 miles I drove it. I’m just over 1/2 a tank. I’m thinking about putting more 93 in and diluting down the ethanol but I’m curious if there’s a way to siphon some gas out of this car?

[Jbonly21]

What’s your mix? For E30 I do 4.5 gallons of E85 and the rest 91. Also in the BM3 app did you turn on upgrade injectors?

[Ata_T1T]

Hey send me a PM or follow me on IG Bimmer_Tuner and ill help you out

[b_w.]

Try resetting adaptations

[astris]

Have you sent any logs to your tuner? Seems like with some basic logs and background info any decent tuner would be able to (at the very least) point you in the right direction.