Exec Pack Frustration!

[Technic]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Alright and I see what you are saying with paint, leather, trim, and all of the custom work involved to provide those colors, finishes, etc. My point is, even for the request to add an normal-production feature to the car that isn't normally offered stand-alone, I imagine there is some degree of logistic overhead from a manufacturing perspective. I guess the nature of this overhead depends on the exact process and the mechanics of the manufacturing infrastructure which are no doubt very flexible but nevertheless programmed and streamlined to do specific things in a specific ways at specific times.

If the option is available in the ordering guide outside the USA -like HUD in the 320i, again- then the approval is quick and easy: the factory allows HUD in the 320i, no need of any special work order.

So with that said, as per what you had said a few posts back, it's no doubt that they are not going to be eager to allow this sort of feature by feature customization since it would undermine the package ordering decisions they've made which are presumably to simplify the number of combinations of cars they have to build.

My proposal, or more like a suggestion really, is to simply offer to them to pay some fee on top of the MSRP that these options cost in order to make them more likely to break them out of the package. As you say, they are typically open to trying to give you what you want, you just have to be willing to pay for it. So, my thinking is that if you come to the table with an offer to do so, they might be more willing to try to work out a solution.

It's just a thought. Obviously it generally only makes sense if we are talking about some reasonably nominal amount, although that is going to be dependent on personal priorities and tolerances. My thought was that a 25% surcharge to break an option out of a package would be reasonable to most. But I have no idea if that would be cost effective for BMW and BMW Individual. I suppose part of the problem is that they are banking on a certain sell-through of the package to get economies of scale on the options within it. I suppose that in the end they have forecast that most people will just pay the package price and move on rather than refusing the package and living without some options they'd like to have.

Your proposal scenario would have better chances of approval only after the initial demand madness -like in a year or so. Individual have already shown paint/and interior options so it seems that they are ready to accept orders.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Technic

If the option is available in the ordering guide outside the USA -like HUD in the 320i, again- then the approval is quick and easy: the factory allows HUD in the 320i, no need of any special work order.

Got it. It

1) What about downgrading? Would I still pay the MSRP for the Blue Shadow trim to downgrade my car to that? And what about simply removing things like alarm, navigation, or heated seats? I wonder if they would do it no-cost?

2) I wonder if this means that we could get the Individual items like Piano Black trim cheaper than some other arbitrary custom wood trim since Piano Black is offered in some countries as an item in the order guide (albeit, an Individual item). Same for paint - say Tanzanite Blue vs. Leguna Seca Blue.

Your proposal scenario would have better chances of approval only after the initial demand madness -like in a year or so. Individual have already shown paint/and interior options so it seems that they are ready to accept orders.

Perhaps so. I'll definitely keep it in mind.

[valeram]

Originally Posted by Carl L

I'm happy with the standard price of the car, but mine will have less options than if they were available non-packaged. I suspect others will do the same, so BMW NA's strategy to maximize profits may not be totally successful in this instance.

I was in the dealer last weekend to check on the new 435. The price of a fully loaded 435 is more than the price I paid for my ED 2013 M3 (almost loaded). It doesn't make any sense.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Got it. It

1) What about downgrading? Would I still pay the MSRP for the Blue Shadow trim to downgrade my car to that? And what about simply removing things like alarm, navigation, or heated seats? I wonder if they would do it no-cost?

I do not think that there is a "delete" option unless it is stated as so -rear badge, rear spoiler delete or Line deletion.

2) I wonder if this means that we could get the Individual items like Piano Black trim cheaper than some other arbitrary custom wood trim since Piano Black is offered in some countries as an item in the order guide (albeit, an Individual item). Same for paint - say Tanzanite Blue vs. Leguna Seca Blue.

Piano Black in the E9X M3 was $1200; The only way to being cheaper than that is to be included in some Individual Composition Package, like in the F10 and F01.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Technic

I do not think that there is a "delete" option unless it is stated as so -rear badge, rear spoiler delete or Line deletion.

Fair point, although, technically no-navigation should just mean replacing the Navigation system with whatever the entry level iDrive option is. Blue Shadow trim would also be a replacement rather than a delete.

Piano Black in the E9X M3 was $1200; The only way to being cheaper than that is to be included in some Individual Composition Package, like in the F10 and F01.

I may not have explained myself well.

For example, in Canada you can get Piano Black trim for $400 (I think - that's from memory, it's something like that). I assume that if a Canadian were to select some other trim from the entire BMW palette, it would cost a lot more than $400. Similarly, I think for $1200 you could get any trim you want for your US order, no? It seems Piano would come in cheaper since they already have it spec'd as a regular option for Canada, UK, etc.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Fair point, although, technically no-navigation should just mean replacing the Navigation system with whatever the entry level iDrive option is. Blue Shadow trim would also be a replacement rather than a delete.



I may not have explained myself well.

For example, in Canada you can get Piano Black trim for $400 (I think - that's from memory, it's something like that). I assume that if a Canadian were to select some other trim from the entire BMW palette, it would cost a lot more than $400. Similarly, I think for $1200 you could get any trim you want for your US order, no? It seems Piano would come in cheaper since they already have it spec'd as a regular option for Canada, UK, etc.

Can we get a trade section of the forum built early so I can start trying to trade my CF for Piano black now?

[m630]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Can we get a trade section of the forum built early so I can start trying to trade my CF for Piano black now?

you'd be insane to do so. PB is beautiful in pix, but terrible in real life. Its plastic firstly, and it is the most impossible to keep looking good interior ever made. It shows ever single minute scratch or simple blemish, and every fingerprint smudge. It is a challenge to keep looking nice, to say it mildly. why anyone would want to trade CF for plastic is beyond me, but I suggest they do some reading on the 6er or M5er boards to see what the real work experience is as there are many stories on this. Most people have regetted it immediately after all the fuss and extra costs to get it, Id say to pass at all costs as its not worth it. The funny thing is, BMW years ago made something similar that was much more practical. It was called high gloss black which I had on my E46. The difference though was that hgb had a metallic quality that hid all the bad stuff I noted above, IE, it hid scratches and fingerprints well, while piano black highlights them.

You'll have no problem trading your CF to anyone that owns the non-M version or selling it outright though.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Fair point, although, technically no-navigation should just mean replacing the Navigation system with whatever the entry level iDrive option is. Blue Shadow trim would also be a replacement rather than a delete.

I think that the F8X will have Nav standard in most of its markets. Which means that ordering an F8X with just iDrive will have to involve a non-USA build, or at least a non-USA VO. Once you get into those areas then a non-approval would be guaranteed.

I may not have explained myself well.

For example, in Canada you can get Piano Black trim for $400 (I think - that's from memory, it's something like that). I assume that if a Canadian were to select some other trim from the entire BMW palette, it would cost a lot more than $400. Similarly, I think for $1200 you could get any trim you want for your US order, no? It seems Piano would come in cheaper since they already have it spec'd as a regular option for Canada, UK, etc.

Piano Trim in the E9X M3 in Canada was part of a Composition Package and not a la carte, like the same package offered in the E93 M3 in the USA. I asked for that package in my E92 M3 and I was told that BMWNA did not ask BMWAG for the package to be added to it, only to the E93 M3. That was a great package for the price, like $5000 discount.

Regardless, you will have to go with BMWNA MSRP and not BMWCA or any other distributor. Only standard Individual trims were $1200; you can create your own custom trim for quite a lot if you want.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Technic

I think that the F8X will have Nav standard in most of its markets. Which means that ordering an F8X with just iDrive will have to involve a non-USA build, or at least a non-USA VO. Once you get into those areas then a non-approval would be guaranteed.

Ok so to be sure I understand - it's different from your 320i order only because in that case you were *adding* equipment rather than *replacing*? Because in your case the 320i was not available with HUD in US at all right? So despite that, it did not require a non-USA VO?

And, yes, I agree Navigation will be standard in most markets. But I have a strong feeling it won't be standard in all of them.

Thanks for continuing the discussion, btw. This is all very enlightening.

Piano Trim in the E9X M3 in Canada was part of a Composition Package and not a la carte, like the same package offered in the E93 M3 in the USA.

Ok, but I'm talking F8x. It's in the Canadian order guide along with two other Individual wood trims. In fact, they are cheaper than the CF trim strangely enough.

Regardless, you will have to go with BMWNA MSRP and not BMWCA or any other distributor. Only standard Individual trims were $1200; you can create your own custom trim for quite a lot if you want.

Ok so custom trims are even more, then. Yeah that's big bucks for some accents.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Can we get a trade section of the forum built early so I can start trying to trade my CF for Piano black now?

Just coordinate with someone in Canada. Logistics of your trade not-withstanding, you'll save them $100 CAD.

Originally Posted by m630

you'd be insane to do so. PB is beautiful in pix, but terrible in real life. Its plastic firstly...

It's wood.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Just coordinate with someone in Canada. Logistics of your trade not-withstanding, you'll save them $100 CAD.



It's wood.

Exactly what I'm thinking. Any Canadians who want CF instead of piano black drop me a line. F82

[Technic]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Ok so to be sure I understand - it's different from your 320i order only because in that case you were *adding* equipment rather than *replacing*? Because in your case the 320i was not available with HUD in US at all right? So despite that, it did not require a non-USA VO?

And, yes, I agree Navigation will be standard in most markets. But I have a strong feeling it won't be standard in all of them.

Thanks for continuing the discussion, btw. This is all very enlightening.

The way that I understand how this works is that for example, the 320i can be had with HUD in Germany as an option so adding the option for the USA was direct -the option is available in the factory line, no custom configuration required. Removing the standard Nav is not direct because the F8X comes to this country as is by factory default.

So far, BMWNA will not give you any credit by substituting equipment by customer request -if such request is possible at all-, but it will give you a credit if they do not install that equipment by factory problems/inventory -F30 production batch with missing standard Bluetooth, F10 M Sport batch with missing M Sport Suspension, for example.

But again, if you ask Individual to build you a stripper F8X then most probably they will do it -for racing, for example. But it will not save you any money, it will be more expensive.

Ok, but I'm talking F8x. It's in the Canadian order guide along with two other Individual wood trims. In fact, they are cheaper than the CF trim strangely enough.

I think that it is a mistake: in Germany the Individual Piano Black trim is almost twice the price of the Carbon Fiber trim, and more than twice the price of the Aluminum trim. If anything, the Carbon Fiber trim in Canada should be priced about $200, and the Piano Black for the $400 because the Aluminum trim is standard -in Germany it is an option.

Following the same German price logic, in the USA the Piano Black should be $500 or so just because Carbon Fiber is standard.

Ok so custom trims are even more, then. Yeah that's big bucks for some accents.

Custom trims are trims that you provide the wood/material sample and you ask Individual to make a trim out of it. Otherwise, it will be the standard Individual trims.

[STi2M3]

It just bothers me that all of the EP other than the HUD are what can be considered "luxury" options (hence the name "Executive Package", while the M-HUD is clearly a performance option. It seems like that should be seperate, for those who don't want the luxury options.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Technic

The way that I understand how this works is that for example, the 320i can be had with HUD in Germany as an option so adding the option for the USA was direct -the option is available in the factory line, no custom configuration required. Removing the standard Nav is not direct because the F8X comes to this country as is by factory default.

Got it.

I think that it is a mistake: in Germany the Individual Piano Black trim is almost twice the price of the Carbon Fiber trim, and more than twice the price of the Aluminum trim. If anything, the Carbon Fiber trim in Canada should be priced about $200, and the Piano Black for the $400 because the Aluminum trim is standard -in Germany it is an option.

Could be an error, though they also have the adaptive suspension listed at $900 which is cheaper than it is here.

Following the same German price logic, in the USA the Piano Black should be $500 or so just because Carbon Fiber is standard.

Ok so that comes back full circle to where I was going when I brought it up. Do you think they'd give it to you at that price or the $1200 price?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Ok so that comes back full circle to where I was going when I brought it up. Do you think they'd give it to you at that price or the $1200 price?

It should be less than $1200 because of CF trim being standard in the F8X and because there are much less pieces of trim than in the E92 (3pcs vs. 6pcs).

[Jockey]

The only thing I wanted is CA so there's no way I'm going to fork out the money for the exec pack.

I fly with a HUD, I don't need one to drive.

[Transfer]

Well I can't blame BMW because look how many people are still going to buy their nonsense. Vote with you wallet and buy a stripper model or another brand, or suck it up and pay their options tax.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by GOLFFRR

BMW will always pkg options like this for now on. ITs easier for ordering for us dealers as well. You start making everything available as indiv pieces you end up getting cars that sit on the lots for a long time bc they are not optioned the way a person wants.

So when you group everything its a all or nothing type of buying which makes it easier for ordering as well as selling.

So don't expect BMW to go back towards more indiv options but instead more grouped options. Its frustrating yes however in the bigger picture it works a lot better this way for BMW and dealers.

This is wrong and horrible thinking.

BMW was always great at giving u ability to custom order anything in the car.
Now its much more stringent. First it was these stupid Lines and now huge expensive option packages.

basically it tells customers screw you, we want to have dealers happy.

Lexus does this currently and one of the reasons i havent bought one.

[GOLFFRR]

Originally Posted by R N M

This is wrong and horrible thinking.

BMW was always great at giving u ability to custom order anything in the car.
Now its much more stringent. First it was these stupid Lines and now huge expensive option packages.

basically it tells customers screw you, we want to have dealers happy.

Lexus does this currently and one of the reasons i havent bought one.

I understand your frustration however it is what it is for now and most likely the way it will be for now on for BMW. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this trend becomes the norm amongst most or all vehicle brands.

[hudamang]

I understand bundling (infiniti also does premium/tech packages but the executive package should've been split between a cold weather package/tech package. I don't need rear seat heaters. Wish they could provide me butt coolers instead.

[czarmar]

After doing some calculations, I find it amazing that BMW doesn't give a discount AT ALL when buying the ZEC vs. the cost of the individual options.

Heated Steering wheel, headlight washers, and heated rear seats are part of the ZCW for the F30 that costs $950. You can buy stand alone heated seats for the F30 for $500, implying that the added value for this portion of the package is $450.

The HUD is part of the ZTP for the F30 which costs $3150. If you opt for the navigation only, it will include everything included in the ZTP except HUD for $2150, implying that the added value of the series HUD is $1000 (in the package). Now I know as a standalone option, this is usually going for $1300, and the M HUD is more comprehensive than the series HUD.

PDC is $750 on most vehicles as a stand alone option, and $400 is the going rate for rear view camera.

Comfort Access was typically offered for 3 series vehicles at $500, and that was back when having comfort access meant that you didn't have to put the key in the ignition, which for the F-series, you don't anyways.

We all know that the extended leather of the ZEC can be had for $950 ala carte, leaving the satellite radio at $250 or so.

If you were thinking you'd get a break by buying a package that included all of these items, that would be understandable, but not in BMWNA's world. Just take the price of the individual options and add them up. Whether you want one or all, with the exception of leather, they are only available at the price of all the options put together.

$450 Heated Steering wheel, rear seats, headlight squirters
$500 CA
$750 PDC
$400 Rear Camera
$950 Extended leather
$1000 HUD
$250 Satellite radio
= $4300

The only way you could assume this to be a bargain is the way I extrapolated individual option value from other packages that supposedly have some incentive over the cost of individual options, or perhaps because the M HUD is different/better than series HUD.

While there are some desirable bits in the ZEC, I do hope that enough people opt out of ZEC to show the error of BMWNA's pricing ways. The base car is a bargain, but not ZEC.

[Oakleyguy]

Originally Posted by czarmar

After doing some calculations, I find it amazing that BMW doesn't give a discount AT ALL when buying the ZEC vs. the cost of the individual options.

Heated Steering wheel, headlight washers, and heated rear seats are part of the ZCW for the F30 that costs $950. You can buy stand alone heated seats for the F30 for $500, implying that the added value for this portion of the package is $450.

The HUD is part of the ZTP for the F30 which costs $3150. If you opt for the navigation only, it will include everything included in the ZTP except HUD for $2150, implying that the added value of the series HUD is $1000 (in the package). Now I know as a standalone option, this is usually going for $1300, and the M HUD is more comprehensive than the series HUD.

PDC is $750 on most vehicles as a stand alone option, and $400 is the going rate for rear view camera.

Comfort Access was typically offered for 3 series vehicles at $500, and that was back when having comfort access meant that you didn't have to put the key in the ignition, which for the F-series, you don't anyways.

We all know that the extended leather of the ZEC can be had for $950 ala carte, leaving the satellite radio at $250 or so.

If you were thinking you'd get a break by buying a package that included all of these items, that would be understandable, but not in BMWNA's world. Just take the price of the individual options and add them up. Whether you want one or all, with the exception of leather, they are only available at the price of all the options put together.

$450 Heated Steering wheel, rear seats, headlight squirters
$500 CA
$750 PDC
$400 Rear Camera
$950 Extended leather
$1000 HUD
$250 Satellite radio
= $4300

The only way you could assume this to be a bargain is the way I extrapolated individual option value from other packages that supposedly have some incentive over the cost of individual options, or perhaps because the M HUD is different/better than series HUD.

While there are some desirable bits in the ZEC, I do hope that enough people opt out of ZEC to show the error of BMWNA's pricing ways. The base car is a bargain, but not ZEC.

Good work sir.