BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > M3/M4 versus...

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-22-2014, 06:26 AM   #1
Paul-Bracq-BMW
Private First Class
Paul-Bracq-BMW's Avatar
Australia
26
Rep
197
Posts

 
Drives: 1981 323i, sports M5, LSD
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

M4 (MT) vs RS5 (DSG) comparison review by Auto Bild

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
Enjoy the Read.

Some numbers:

The BMW does 0-100 kmh (62mph) in 4.4 secs (VS 4.2 for the RS5 with DSG). The 0-200 is in the advantage of the M4 in 14.1 secs (VS 14.8).

Weight: 1585kg or 3494 pounds VS 1803kg or (3975 pounds!!) for the RS5.

Lap time (Contidrom measuring 3.8km): 1:34,41 secs (similar to Porsche 911), 2 secs quicker than the Audi. I assume with the DCT version, the M4 would be even quicker... Note that these are the results on the LONG handling track of 3.8km, not the shorter one at 3.4km.

Best times on the same track by Auto Bild:
1:29,50 min - Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 (997, semi-slicks)
1:30,70 min - Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG
1:30,73 min - Nissan GT-R '11
1:30,95 min - Nissan GT-R '09
1:31,00 min - Porsche 911 Turbo PDK (997.2)
1:31,14 min - Corvette ZR1 (AutoBild Sportscars)
1:31,20 min - Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997.1, semi-slicks)
1:31,62 min - Corvette C7 Stingray
1:31,75 min - Porsche 911 Turbo (997.1)
1:31,95 min - Audi R8 5.2 FSI quattro R-tronic
1:33,46 min - Audi R8 4.2 FSI quattro '07
1:34,21 min - Porsche Cayman R PDK (987)
1:34,23 min - Porsche Cayman S PDK (981)
1:34,41 min BMW M4 Manual
1:35,04 min - BMW M3 Coupe (E92) DCT
1:35,76 min - BMW 1M CoupƩ
1:36,12 min - Audi RS3 Sportback
1:36,53 min - BMW M235i
1:36,62 min - Mercedes-Benz A45 AMG
1:36,88 Alfa 4C
1:37,01 min - Peugeot RCZ R
1:37,01 min - Ford Focus RS500
1:37,06 min - Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG '07
1:37,35 min - BMW M135i xDrive
1:37,53 min - Volkswagen Golf VII R
1:38,24 min - Skoda Octavia RS Combi '13
1:38,38 min - Audi S3 Sportback S-tronic '13
1:39,50 min - Ford Focus ST Turnier '13
1:39,90 min - Renault MĆ©gane RS '14
1:40,15 min - Ford Focus RS '09
1:40,16 min - Mazda3 MPS '12
1:40,35 min - Audi S3 '09
1:40,40 min - Ford Focus
Attached Images
     
__________________
1981 323i, 143 Kashmir-Metallic, 0094 Pergament, Sports M5, LSD.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 06:36 AM   #2
Paul-Bracq-BMW
Private First Class
Paul-Bracq-BMW's Avatar
Australia
26
Rep
197
Posts

 
Drives: 1981 323i, sports M5, LSD
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Also found this interesting onboard video for the Supertest on the Sachenring: http://www.autobild.de/videos/video-...4-5139032.html

Best time: 1:37,74

Audi R5: 1:40, 81
M6: 1:37,67
M3 GTS: 1:37,17

Other Sachenring times: http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/sachsenring.html
__________________
1981 323i, 143 Kashmir-Metallic, 0094 Pergament, Sports M5, LSD.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 07:34 AM   #3
KennyPowers
Brigadier General
95
Rep
4,621
Posts

 
Drives: .....
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Coast

iTrader: (13)

I cant read german......does anyone know if this is an actual weight, or if its just an estimation?

I have to say, if it IS an actual weight, that's a disappointment. BC you have a manual M4 with no leather, no big stereo, no exec pack and CF roof (I think) that still barely weighs in the 34xx range. Still lighter than an e92 m3, but id expect it to be closer to 3400 and not 3500....
__________________
2015 M3 6MT
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 08:24 AM   #4
Powerslide
Captain
United_States
31
Rep
753
Posts

 
Drives: '15 AY M3 (sold 2008 E93 M3)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago Illinois USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
I cant read german......does anyone know if this is an actual weight, or if its just an estimation?

I have to say, if it IS an actual weight, that's a disappointment. BC you have a manual M4 with no leather, no big stereo, no exec pack and CF roof (I think) that still barely weighs in the 34xx range. Still lighter than an e92 m3, but id expect it to be closer to 3400 and not 3500....
This is exactly the issue that is also being discussed in the weight of a stripper M4 thread - would be interesting to know 2 things:

1) exactly how did BMW arrive at the quoted 1,497kg in its press release from September, 2013?

2) what is the "true" weight of a stripper M4, whether Euro spec or US spec (and more importantly - what exact configuration of equipement is required to arrive at such figures)?
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 09:37 AM   #5
Needsdecaf
Everything's Bigger in Texas!
36
Rep
2,048
Posts

 
Drives: Porsche Tractor
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

The best is the quotes on the interior:

BMW Brings DTM feeling on the road.

Audi is a GT, not a racer.

Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 09:40 AM   #6
pb12
Private
1
Rep
98
Posts

 
Drives: 911
Join Date: May 2011
Location: PDX

iTrader: (0)

With all the opportunity to ask questions of the BMW engineers at the various press drives, why hasn't anyone challenged them on the weight of the car?

M
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 09:56 AM   #7
trinim3
Captain
21
Rep
871
Posts

 
Drives: '15 M4; '14 Audi RS5
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

This mag rated the M4 an 8 out of 10 for the sound and the RS5 a 6...seems pretty biased to me
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 10:16 AM   #8
ss134
Brigadier General
ss134's Avatar
United Kingdom
68
Rep
3,796
Posts

 
Drives: ...a hard bargain...
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Germany/UK

iTrader: (1)

Good acceleration numbers against the RS5 with DSG. With DCT the gap would be wider at 200kph for sure.
__________________
2014 AW F80 M3 DCT
2011 AW E90 M3 DCT - Sold
2010 JZB E90 M3 DCT - Sold
2009 6MT E90 LCI 335i M -Sport - Sold
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 10:24 AM   #9
bimmerj
Lieutenant
Canada
8
Rep
471
Posts

 
Drives: cars
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

I am no expert, but the 0-200 km/h does not make much sense to me. For a car that has 425 HP at the wheels, I would expect it to be a bit faster.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 10:29 AM   #10
gthal
Brigadier General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
77
Rep
3,480
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinim3 View Post
This mag rated the M4 an 8 out of 10 for the sound and the RS5 a 6...seems pretty biased to me
Or maybe it's just their opinion... why is it biased?

When someone says something we agreed with it is "honest" and when they say something we don't agree with then it is "biased".

I also happen to think the M4 sounds good... whether it is better than an RS5 is subjective. I would have thought most people would say no but if someone thought it was, then I guess that is their "biased" opinion
__________________
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 MB C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 10:31 AM   #11
KennyPowers
Brigadier General
95
Rep
4,621
Posts

 
Drives: .....
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Coast

iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerj View Post
I am no expert, but the 0-200 km/h does not make much sense to me. For a car that has 425 HP at the wheels, I would expect it to be a bit faster.
Think poor launch / traction.

It's telling that the m3 is .4 secs behind at 100km / hour but .7 ahead by 200km/hr
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 10:31 AM   #12
gthal
Brigadier General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
77
Rep
3,480
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerj View Post
I am no expert, but the 0-200 km/h does not make much sense to me. For a car that has 425 HP at the wheels, I would expect it to be a bit faster.
I agree... the only thing I can think of is the driver/conditions because they also are also slower than many are getting in the 0-100 too. But, based on the results, it does seem a tad slower than I would have thought.
__________________
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 MB C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 11:12 AM   #13
trinim3
Captain
21
Rep
871
Posts

 
Drives: '15 M4; '14 Audi RS5
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Or maybe it's just their opinion... why is it biased?

When someone says something we agreed with it is "honest" and when they say something we don't agree with then it is "biased".

I also happen to think the M4 sounds good... whether it is better than an RS5 is subjective. I would have thought most people would say no but if someone thought it was, then I guess that is their "biased" opinion
Fair point. But if we do a little exercise just for fun:

Let's score the styling 8-8 instead of 9-7 for the M4. That brings the M4 from to 236 to 235 and RS5 from 228 to 229. (Some would even argue if the RS5 wasn't 6 yrs old it might actually be better styling)
Then let's flip the sound score from 8-6 to 6-8. That brings the M4 to 233 and the RS5 to 231. Much closer. The m4 would still have the edge but mainly due to its track performance. That's how I would score it but I of course am biased.

Anyways all I'm saying is bias/opinion/preference comes into play for subjective ratings which then appear as an objective overall score.

Sidenote: the Audis weight and aero drag really affect its top speed performance. I would not want to race a M4 at speed if I were in my RS5...it would be quite embarrassing.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 11:18 AM   #14
Keto
Lieutenant Colonel
Keto's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
1,582
Posts

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: WHO DAT NATION

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2015 BMW M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinim3 View Post
Fair point. But if we do a little exercise just for fun:

Let's score the styling 8-8 instead of 9-7 for the M4. That brings the M4 from to 236 to 235 and RS5 from 228 to 229. (Some would even argue if the RS5 wasn't 6 yrs old it might actually be better styling)
Then let's flip the sound score from 8-6 to 6-8. That brings the M4 to 233 and the RS5 to 231. Much closer. The m4 would still have the edge but mainly due to its track performance. That's how I would score it but I of course am biased..
Everyone's biased.

The point of those "scores" are to apply a veneer of objective legitimacy to an obviously subjective evaluation. Just like with video game reviews, wine reviews, or movie reviews, the numbers are not valid or reliable (statistically speaking). You can be sure that the outcome is preordained based on the subjective, and then the "objective" is tweaked to produce the final result. "Yeah, that braking is really much better, let's shift a point there" etc. Or, they change the weighting "braking is now worth 20 points, not 15."
__________________
2015 SO/SO MT M3 :: Exec : Lighting : Adaptive : HK : CF trim : Full leather : DAP : Black 19's : sunshade
Crystalline tint 40%/70% on windshield : M performance mirrors, spoiler, splitters, lip : RKP diffuser : Fully dechromed
Bavsound Stage 1 : V1 Savvy hardwired : Self-coded, will code locally for beer or food
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 11:19 AM   #15
gthal
Brigadier General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
77
Rep
3,480
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinim3 View Post
Anyways all I'm saying is bias/opinion/preference comes into play for subjective ratings which then appear as an objective overall score.
I see your point and agree... I dislike the tests that "score" the cars as so many of the measures are subjective as you note. I often think the magazine knows, on an overall basis, which car they prefer and then you wonder if they score things to get that result. Maybe the right result but they have to score individual items to get that result.

I'd much rather they simply comment about the car and then pick and overall winner based on which they preferred... nothing annoys me more than scoring a car for trunk space or silly things like that which are largely irrelevant for most people buying cars like this.
__________________
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 MB C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold

Last edited by gthal; 06-22-2014 at 11:24 AM.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 11:20 AM   #16
trinim3
Captain
21
Rep
871
Posts

 
Drives: '15 M4; '14 Audi RS5
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keto View Post
Everyone's biased.

The point of those "scores" are to apply a veneer of objective legitimacy to an obviously subjective evaluation. Just like with video game reviews, wine reviews, or movie reviews, the numbers are not valid or reliable (statistically speaking). You can be sure that the outcome is preordained based on the subjective, and then the "objective" is tweaked to produce the final result. "Yeah, that braking is really much better, let's shift a point there" etc. Or, they change the weighting "braking is now worth 20 points, not 15."
Exactly
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 11:23 AM   #17
Keto
Lieutenant Colonel
Keto's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
1,582
Posts

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: WHO DAT NATION

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2015 BMW M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinim3 View Post
Exactly
Then the circlejerk on the forums can start!
__________________
2015 SO/SO MT M3 :: Exec : Lighting : Adaptive : HK : CF trim : Full leather : DAP : Black 19's : sunshade
Crystalline tint 40%/70% on windshield : M performance mirrors, spoiler, splitters, lip : RKP diffuser : Fully dechromed
Bavsound Stage 1 : V1 Savvy hardwired : Self-coded, will code locally for beer or food
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 11:28 AM   #18
CanAutM3
Brigadier General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
69
Rep
4,349
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M4 DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [4.75]
2006 Audi S4  [0.00]
Observation:

The M4 scored higher than the RS5 in the "Sound" category
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 11:34 AM   #19
M6-Coupe
Lieutenant Colonel
M6-Coupe's Avatar
26
Rep
1,955
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M6 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Irvine, Ca

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerj View Post
I am no expert, but the 0-200 km/h does not make much sense to me. For a car that has 425 HP at the wheels, I would expect it to be a bit faster.
The Sportauto supertest got almost the same result. 13.7 second for M4 with DCT
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 11:37 AM   #20
gthal
Brigadier General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
77
Rep
3,480
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M6-Coupe View Post
The Sportauto supertest got almost the same result. 13.7 second for M4 with DCT
13.7 is a meaningful amount faster than the 14.1 in this test IMO. 0.4s is a decent gap at those speeds... and more in line with what you would expect the car to do. If I would bet, I think the car is 13.3 to 13.5 to 200 once people get familiar with in and it is tested in good conditions.
__________________
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 MB C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 11:42 AM   #21
jc05e46m3
Colonel
45
Rep
2,541
Posts

 
Drives: '15 YMB/SO M4
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Observation:

The M4 scored higher than the RS5 in the "Sound" category
I do think the M4 with exhaust valves open does indeed sound pretty good....but not better than an RS5.
__________________
'15 /// M4 - YMB/SO
'12 E92 ///M3 ZCP - AW/FR - Sold
'05 E46 ///M3 - TiAg/IR- Sold
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2014, 11:51 AM   #22
M6-Coupe
Lieutenant Colonel
M6-Coupe's Avatar
26
Rep
1,955
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M6 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Irvine, Ca

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
13.7 is a meaningful amount faster than the 14.1 in this test IMO
so what do you expect if a car with DCT catches 200 km/h in 13.7 and the same car with manual transmission catches that speed in 14.1 second? you need 3 manual gearshifts correct? For sure you know how fast the DCT is
__________________

Last edited by M6-Coupe; 06-22-2014 at 12:00 PM.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:42 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST