What's a money shift?

[Super Spartan]

Sorry for the n00b question but what does money shift mean?

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

Sorry for the n00b question but what does money shift mean?

Basically it's a highly aggressive down-shift on a MT. Which means you end up wayy over red-line the engine.

It's called money shifting because doing that will tend to harm/destroy the engine, and that is money out of your pocket because warranty doesn't cover it. Cars now a days especially a F80/F82 will record things like this.

[mmmmQuattro]

Other than a mis-shift, is it actually possible to over-rev an S55?
I would have thought that once you hit the redline, the injectors would shut down - just like they did on the N54. I don't know, as I haven't tried to go beyond the redline.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by mmmmQuattro

Other than a mis-shift, is it actually possible to over-rev an S55?
I would have thought that once you hit the redline, the injectors would shut down - just like they did on the N54. I don't know, as I haven't tried to go beyond the redline.

I have the same question. Anyone who says they have never hit the rev limiter is lying. It happens once in a while. I don't think that can cause an engine failure. Money shift is more likely the culprit.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by mmmmQuattro

Other than a mis-shift, is it actually possible to over-rev an S55?
I would have thought that once you hit the redline, the injectors would shut down - just like they did on the N54. I don't know, as I haven't tried to go beyond the redline.

This is what I'm wondering as well. I thought over-revving was only possible with money shifting and in other cases rev-limiter would prevent this.

[Super Spartan]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Basically it's a highly aggressive down-shift on a MT. Which means you end up wayy over red-line the engine.

It's called money shifting because doing that will tend to harm/destroy the engine, and that is money out of your pocket because warranty doesn't cover it. Cars now a days especially a F80/F82 will record things like this.

thanks for the explanation man, I had no clue. rep added

[Super Spartan]

Originally Posted by cntzl

This is what I'm wondering as well. I thought over-revving was only possible with money shifting and in other cases rev-limiter would prevent this.

I saw a video on YouTube that with the DCT if you let's say in 5th or 6th gear and you push the gas pedal to the kickdown point and downshift, it won't just go down one gear but will go to the lowest possible gear for that speed to give you the max acceleration.

since that's something the car is programmed to do, do you think that is harmful to the engine/transmission?

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

I saw a video on YouTube that with the DCT if you let's say in 5th or 6th gear and you push the gas pedal to the kickdown point and downshift, it won't just go down one gear but will go to the lowest possible gear for that speed to give you the max acceleration.

since that's something the car is programmed to do, do you think that is harmful to the engine/transmission?

No, that's totally fine and there is no risk involved in that. At least no possible human error. My question was specifically for 6MT.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by mmmmQuattro

Other than a mis-shift, is it actually possible to over-rev an S55?
I would have thought that once you hit the redline, the injectors would shut down - just like they did on the N54. I don't know, as I haven't tried to go beyond the redline.

on the M-DCT, no it won't allow you to self harm the engine in such a fashion but you can still do so with a MT.

[LLNM4]

I''m glad to own a dct.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

Sorry for the n00b question but what does money shift mean?

Basically downshifting while having too much cash in your pocket. That big wad of money can restrict the movement in your left leg (clutch leg) causing you to mis-shift. If you don't have cash on you then it's called a heel toe or something like that.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by LLNM4

I''m glad to own a dct.

I love driving manuals but was thinking the same thing. I'm happy to have a DCT.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

I saw a video on YouTube that with the DCT if you let's say in 5th or 6th gear and you push the gas pedal to the kickdown point and downshift, it won't just go down one gear but will go to the lowest possible gear for that speed to give you the max acceleration.

since that's something the car is programmed to do, do you think that is harmful to the engine/transmission?

The DCT basically shifts based on computer algorithms and precise calculations done within fractions of a second. So the DCT will only downshift to a gear that the "computer" allows, and the "computer" is programmed in such a way to protect the engine. It will never select a gear that would jeopardize the engine.

[Falafel Combo]

BTW, do you guys consider redlining an MT to be over revving? Can BMW reasonably build a case to decline warranty repairs or even engine replacement due to a history of redlining (not including erroneous money shifts). Just good ole fashion hooning or track days with multiple redline events?

What do you guys think?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

BTW, do you guys consider redlining an MT to be over revving? Can BMW reasonably build a case to decline warranty repairs or even engine replacement due to a history of redlining (not including erroneous money shifts). Just good ole fashion hooning or track days with multiple redline events?

What do you guys think?

That's an ineterresting point. When I had my DCT E92 M3 tuned, my tuner had me guess what was the max RPM I had reached (when it was still stock). It was well over 8600RPM despite the 8400 cut off. He said the rev limiter is "soft" and can allow the revs to briefly go past the red line when up shifting. Now, that is on an an S65, but it seems reasonable to assume the same "softness" from the S55 rev limiter.

However, I seriously doubt an over rev of a few 100RPM would cause such a catastrophic failure.

To the OP, it is also important to understand that a severe over rev caused by a money shift might not result in an immediate engine failure. The over rev can cause damages to components that will only fail later down the road after more cycles are put on them. So it is very possible for the engine to suffer a catastrophic failure while leisurely cruising down the highway caused by an over rev that occured quite earlier in time (could be months later).

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

BTW, do you guys consider redlining an MT to be over revving? Can BMW reasonably build a case to decline warranty repairs or even engine replacement due to a history of redlining (not including erroneous money shifts). Just good ole fashion hooning or track days with multiple redline events?

What do you guys think?

Redlining/hitting the limiter is not over revving and no problem.
The limiter is in place to prevent any damage.

A moneyshift is another thing.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by YasM3

hitting the rev limiter when redlining is not over revving. Over revving happens usually when you accidentally shift to the wrong gear. Ie. shifting to 2nd when you meant 4th @ a high RPM. The rev limiter cannot slow down the rapid mechanical RPM change if this occurs. This will also happen on just about any other MT vehicle as well (not just BMW). We see this ALL the time in the field. If BMW says you over revved the car. You bet your ass they are right!! lol.

So to answer your questions. Redlining the car, BMW will not deny a warranty or engine claim. However, if you over rev, they are going to tell you to go pound sand. We have seen cars over revved by 1000-2000+ RPMs and it was not pretty.

Awesome! Thank you so much!!!

[NOLATom]

I'm in the dark here on a lot in life...hahaha, but also on why you cannot over rev an engine when it has the DCT. I've seen a lot of posters reiterate this, but I would like to know why myself if someone is willing to explain. Means the DCT has a manual shift option, I had always assumed it would only shift when you tell it too other than when it automatically shifts when slowing down. What happens if you are in third and you get to the redline, will it not let you go pass that? Does it just shut down the engine in the same way as when is sees wheel spin when the traction control is on or does it just sit there at the redline until you shift?

I'm assuming it's somewhere in the manual, but I haven't made it through the whole thing yet.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by NOLATom

I'm in the dark here on a lot in life...hahaha, but also on why you cannot over rev an engine when it has the DCT. I've seen a lot of posters reiterate this, but I would like to know why myself if someone is willing to explain. Means the DCT has a manual shift option, I had always assumed it would only shift when you tell it too other than when it automatically shifts when slowing down. What happens if you are in third and you get to the redline, will it not let you go pass that? Does it just shut down the engine in the same way as when is sees wheel spin when the traction control is on or does it just sit there at the redline until you shift?

I'm assuming it's somewhere in the manual, but I haven't made it through the whole thing yet.

On the DCT, it is the computer and servos that are physically changing gears and engaging the clutch; this is based on driver inputs in manual mode. The computer is however smart enough not allow a gear to be engaged that would cause an over-rev, even if commanded by the driver to do so.

[boss2k]

Does this money shifting also happens for Honda engines,.I have driven my brothers S2k several times very hard and never thought of this and my brother used to drive the S2k extremely hard including tracking it and never had any engine issues.

These cars are meant to be driven hard and I think engine should be tuned to absorb some mis- shifts...this money shifting makes me nervous to drive my car hard

[NOLATom]

Originally Posted by YasM3

With a manual transmission vehicle or DCT vehicle, when you go to redline, there is a rev limiter. It will not let you go to far if you accelerate to redline you will hit the limiter. The over rev issue is happening, not because people are redlining the car. It is because, in a manual transmission, they accidentally put it into the wrong gear. For instance, redline 3rd, instead of shifting to 4th, shift to 2nd, this is what causes the over rev. The revlimiter at this point cannot slow down the engine using the limiter and this is when parts break. This goes for any manual transmission vehicle, not just BMWs.

Now with a DCT in manual mode. This is slightly different. With a manual transmission, there is a manual linkage, no electronic gizmos to prevent you from putting it into the incorrect gear. With a DCT. If you redline, lets say 3rd gear, if you go to far you hit the rev limiter and it will stay there (not an over rev) You can then shift up to 4th. If by accident, you hit the downshift button when you are at redline, nothing will happen. It will not downshift to 2nd gear, it wont let you. The DCT will know it is not the correct gear based on RPMs and vehicle speed.

Glad I went with the DCT. Never over revved any of the other cars I had that were manuals, but the motor in this car probably cost more than all the other motors combined.

[boss2k]

Originally Posted by YasM3

It can happen on any car. Nissan, Ford, Dodge, Honda etc. Anything with a manual transmission. It has NOTHING to do with driving the car hard, or the engine being able to handle being driven hard. It has to do with engaging the wrong gear at a high RPM. The rev limiter simply cannot over come the rapid RPM change when its already on the limiter or too high of an RPM and you engaged the wrong gear. I.E, supposed to shift to 4th @ 3rd gear red line and went to 2nd by accident. This can happen on ANY manual transmission vehicle.

What about intentional downshifting from 6th to 2nd at 80 mph? Is that money shifting