BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-18-2013, 12:16 PM   #1
Boss330
Colonel
 
Boss330's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 ACS5 3.0i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway, Scandinavia

Posts: 2,239
iTrader: (0)

Post BMW M4 - Sport Auto test ride and interview with Albert Biermann

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
Picked up German magazine Sport Auto today. It features an interview with BMW M development chief Albert Biermann and a ride in the M4 with Biermann driving.

This is my translation of the major parts of this article. My apologies for bad sentences or missed meanings (I have tried my best from a hotel room after a long day at work...):

------------------

They start the article with an observation that Biermann seems a bit anxious and how he fires up the six cylinder and revs it, firing off a couple of “raw six cylinder salvos”.

On handling:
“No BMW M base model has been developed so consistently for track use as the new M3/M4. It has not been so much about raising the power over the previous model, but to lower the weight and get a coherent overall concept.”

The M4 should reach more than 300km/h, but that is only half the story. The other half is how it corners. The double joint front suspension has lost 5kg. Tolerance free joints and bushings increases stability. The rear suspension is mounted directly to the body. The active rear diff is taken from the M5/M6.

On weight saving:
The new car will weigh under 1500kg (in base version). The propshaft in CF saves 5kg. The electrical steering saves 3kg over the hydraulic system.

On electrical steering:
Biermann acknowledges that “to many, electrical steering is a “devils tool” but to us the weight saving of 3kg was a argument. We are also aiming to have a self-correcting, undetectable steering assistance”.

“We want to have the best electro mechanical steering in the car that money can buy”. It was also a factor that the base cars have electro mechanical steering and that it was a clear objective to use BMW M budgets on weight reductions instead of developing a dedicated hydro mechanical steering only for the M models.

On the engine:
The S55 will be assembled on the regular production line in Steyr, not in the special engine factory in Munich.

“The departure from a NA engine was decided quite early. Only a maximum 5% of the life time of a M3 is the engine used at full load. In the other 95% a turbocharged engine will be more efficient and at the same time give better performance”.

Thanks to the high torque this means that also the higher gears can be used (for overtaking etc).

“The boost pressure will be at a maximum 1,3bar. That way we can give the customer the same power level at high temperatures and high altitude. Under normal conditions, the boost pressure will be lower” explains Biermann.

The crankshaft is forged.

There is a separate oil return system for the turbos to ensure that the oil is evacuated even during extreme braking and cornering manoeuvres.

On cooling:
In addition to the main coolers there are several secondary coolers, both for high and low temperature circuits, as well as for the turbo and transmission.

There is also a secondary water pump to provide a balanced temperature management.

On transmissions:
The manual is derived from the 1M but has been modified and is now 12kg lighter. The 7-speed DCT is taken from the M5/M6, with it's longer ratios (over the E9x M3 DCT - helping fuel consumption).

On brakes:
Standard front brakes will be 4 piston callipers and the CF brakes will have a 6 piston calliper.

Driving impressions:
(Biermann seems to be driving quite enthusiastically during the drive)

The force of 430PS and 560Nm is delivered with a dry, throaty and bassy rumble. The “Tourenwagen-timbre” is no longer remained.

“No M engine should shy away from high RPMs”, Biermann says as the tacho needle has left 7500rpm behind a long time ago.

Biermann steps on the throttle and enjoys the "blaring sound of the valved exhaust system".

-------------

I found this quite interesting and informative. At least until we can get final specs and drive impressions/comparison tests
Attached Images
    

Last edited by Boss330; 11-20-2013 at 02:57 PM.
Boss330 is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 12:27 PM   #2
MisterEm
Private First Class
 
Drives: beater
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: no bueno

Posts: 119
iTrader: (0)

Thank you for sharing.
__________________
Topaz/Cinn 46M
Ground Control - Vibra-Technics - CSL Roof - ZHP steering rack - Evolve Airbox/tune - 4.10 - SS Stepped V1's w/ HJS Cats - SS Res. Sec. 2 - Borla mufflers - Rotora 4 pots - PFC DD rotors - Morr VS8.2's w/ 255/275 Pilot SS
MisterEm is offline  
+1
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 12:28 PM   #3
KennyPowers
Brigadier General
 
Drives: .....
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Coast

Posts: 3,413
iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
On electrical steering:
Biermann acknowledges that “to many, electrical steering is a “devils tool” but to us the weight saving of 3kg was a argument.

On transmissions:
The manual is derived from the 1M but has been modified and is now 12kg lighter. The 7-speed DCT is taken from the M5/M6, with longer ratios (helping fuel consumption).

the power steering comments are idiotic. please do not insult our intelligence by claiming that a 3kg weight loss is relevant in deciding to go electric over hydraulic. everyone knows it is for fuel economy purposes, and cost saving since its already on the standard 3 series. it is what it is, we will see if they can dial it in effectively

I am glad the transmission is from the 1m and not the old e9x m3. it is MUCH better in the 1M, and is one of the best ive driven. I hope to get mine in manual form and hope that the rev matching function is available (and optional by having it only in a specific mode) as I would really enjoy this function at the track.

thanks for posting.
__________________
2009 AW E92 M3 DCT

M359 ZCP wheels w/ AD08R / OEM Competition Package Suspension Retrofit / LCI Taillights
KennyPowers is online now  
+1
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 12:33 PM   #4
mpower3330
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bay Area

Posts: 226
iTrader: (0)

Anybody else annoyed about the S55 being assembled on the regular production line in Steyr instead of the special engine factory?
mpower3330 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 12:37 PM   #5
RMB
Lieutenant
 
RMB's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 Cayenne S
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

Posts: 485
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
560 Nm of torque. So the torque is at 413 lb/ft and he stated revving beyond 7500 rpm. That sounds great.
RMB is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 12:45 PM   #6
solstice
Major
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

Posts: 1,381
iTrader: (0)

Anyone know the details of the M5's cooling, specifically if there is anything additional for the M3/M4 mentioned here?
solstice is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 01:31 PM   #7
Brosef
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Brosef's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago

Posts: 1,916
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post

On handling:
No BMW M base model has been developed so consistently for track use as the new M3/M4. It has not been so much about raising the power over the previous model, but to lower the weight and get a coherent overall concept.

The M4 should reach more than 300km/h, but that is only half the story. The other half is how it corners. The double wishbone front suspension has lost 5kg. Tolerance free joints and bushings increases stability. The rear suspension is mounted directly to the body. The active rear diff is taken from the M5/M6.
the M3 doesn't use a double-wishbone suspension. I think we all wish it did, but it doesn't have the space for it. It's a MacPherson strut setup.
Brosef is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 01:47 PM   #8
GOLFFRR
Architect
 
GOLFFRR's Avatar
 
Drives: Golf Cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Solvang, CA/Camarillo, CA

Posts: 14,027
iTrader: (4)

sweet
__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, PM ME FIRST I CAN HOOK YOU UP!
Need a quote?..EMAIL: Bmwdavid@icloud.com | T.805.482.8878 ask for David Aviles
www.stevethomasbmw.com | OUR PARTS STORE | Facebook-DAVID | BMWDAVID.COM
GOLFFRR is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 01:57 PM   #9
paddy335
Captain
 
Drives: 335i Touring; X5 40d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand

Posts: 809
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMB View Post
560 Nm of torque. So the torque is at 413 lb/ft and he stated revving beyond 7500 rpm. That sounds great.
paddy335 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 02:45 PM   #10
basscadet
First Lieutenant
 
basscadet's Avatar
 
Drives: '05 Acura TL
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Overland Park, KS

Posts: 304
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy335 View Post
110 lb/ft improvement over the S65. Arguably the Achilles heel of the E9x M3.
basscadet is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 02:59 PM   #11
paddy335
Captain
 
Drives: 335i Touring; X5 40d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand

Posts: 809
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
110 lb/ft improvement over the S65. Arguably the Achilles heel of the E9x M3.
That was music to my ears. 430hp, 560Nm, 6MT, 7500rpm, I reckon this car is going to be a beast. It's mid-range is going to be stonking.
paddy335 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 02:59 PM   #12
Chill72
Banned
 
Chill72's Avatar
 
Drives: 10 E92 M3 (RIP)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Germany

Posts: 896
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpower3330 View Post
Anybody else annoyed about the S55 being assembled on the regular production line in Steyr instead of the special engine factory?
I don't give a FAK if it's made in Mobile Alabama...as long as it preforms like a BEAST.
Chill72 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 03:06 PM   #13
jbockrd
Lieutenant
 
jbockrd's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 Alpine White/Carbon M3
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Yardley, PA

Posts: 550
iTrader: (0)

I think for all of the technology and the lighter weight CF parts, you need to have the engine made in a more streamlined factory to keep the costs down or else this car would cost a fortune. Also that torque upgrade is ENORMOUS compared to what I'm driving in my e92 M3!!! If it handles better and has that much power, it should be an amazing car!
__________________
On the list for an M4!!
jbockrd is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 03:07 PM   #14
BMW M3 CRT
Private First Class
 
BMW M3 CRT's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Germany

Posts: 116
iTrader: (0)

You forget the cost savings comments from Albert Biermann in this Interview - especially in case of the engine... and that the overall tenor of the Artikel looks like Sportauto was no soooo happy about the engine descission.
The following artikle in this mag is an really great hommage at the old S65 and shows Sportauto's real intentions !!!
BMW M3 CRT is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 03:24 PM   #15
paddy335
Captain
 
Drives: 335i Touring; X5 40d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand

Posts: 809
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
You forget the cost savings comments from Albert Biermann in this Interview - especially in case of the engine... and that the overall tenor of the Artikel looks like Sportauto was no soooo happy about the engine descission.
The following artikle in this mag is an really great hommage at the old S65 and shows Sportauto's real intentions !!!
Yep let's pay homage to a great engine and celebrate a new one (not that I am trying to sit on the fence or anything )
paddy335 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 03:49 PM   #16
BMW M3 CRT
Private First Class
 
BMW M3 CRT's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Germany

Posts: 116
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill72 View Post
I don't give a FAK if it's made in Mobile Alabama...as long as it preforms like a BEAST.
You forget that the production of the M engines in the "Sondermotorenbau" make much of the M-Spirit ... much like the AMG credo "engine build by one person"

Also cheap watches shows the right time, but most technic inspired people would choose an Rolex, Omega, Breitling ... if they habe the money to buy one. Same issue with the new M3/M4 ... going back from an Breitling like S65 to an cheaper more standard S55 engine is an bad move for many real M fans ... also when the S55 fulfil the needed power demands ... and don't forget great torque was never an part of THW real M spirit !!!
BMW M3 CRT is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 03:49 PM   #17
Boss330
Colonel
 
Boss330's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 ACS5 3.0i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway, Scandinavia

Posts: 2,239
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
You forget the cost savings comments from Albert Biermann in this Interview - especially in case of the engine... and that the overall tenor of the Artikel looks like Sportauto was no soooo happy about the engine descission.
The following artikle in this mag is an really great hommage at the old S65 and shows Sportauto's real intentions !!!
Thanks, I tried to relay the info to the best of my competence. But since both German and English are my second languages I do not grasp every nuance (as I also stated in my first post).

However I can't find any negativity towards the S55 in the article at all. They do describe Biermanns increasing joy as speed builds and the engines power is used.

Perhaps you could translate the parts that I don't "get" in the German text?

What parts of cos savings did I miss out? I mentioned the comment on electro mechanical steering, and that's the only direct comment I can find in the article. There are no cost saving comments related to the engine in the article. Only info as regards the oil pan in Magnesium, forged crank, extra cooling etc. All costly improvements over the N55...
Boss330 is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 04:03 PM   #18
Jockey
Super Pilot
 
Jockey's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 AW 135i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portsmouth, RI

Posts: 1,042
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to Jockey
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
...and don't forget great torque was never an part of THW real M spirit !!!
Yes, let's have an engine with less torque to maintain the M spirit.



No, actually, let's not.
Jockey is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 04:04 PM   #19
Boss330
Colonel
 
Boss330's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 ACS5 3.0i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway, Scandinavia

Posts: 2,239
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosef View Post
the M3 doesn't use a double-wishbone suspension. I think we all wish it did, but it doesn't have the space for it. It's a MacPherson strut setup.
Correct, my mistake in translating "Zwei-Gelenk federbein". Which should have been "dual joint strut".
Boss330 is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 04:11 PM   #20
Boss330
Colonel
 
Boss330's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 ACS5 3.0i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway, Scandinavia

Posts: 2,239
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
the power steering comments are idiotic. please do not insult our intelligence by claiming that a 3kg weight loss is relevant in deciding to go electric over hydraulic. everyone knows it is for fuel economy purposes, and cost saving since its already on the standard 3 series. it is what it is, we will see if they can dial it in effectively
You did read the entire quote from Biermann? He clearly stated that weight was one factor, but that they did not want to spend M budget funds on developing a bespoke hydraulic steering for the M models. They wanted to focus their budget on weight savings.

He states three main reasons for going electric:

-Weight savings
-Cost savings
-Development costs of hydraulic steering

Reasons for going hydraulic:

-Steering feel

Reasons against going hydraulic:

-Weight
-Cost of development

Porsche has done a great job it seems with their electro mechanical steering in the 991, so hopefully BMW will get a similarly good system from ZF as well.

So in that view I don't see his comments on electro mechanic steering as idiotic at all...
Boss330 is offline   Norway
+1
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 04:14 PM   #21
jbockrd
Lieutenant
 
jbockrd's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 Alpine White/Carbon M3
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Yardley, PA

Posts: 550
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
You forget that the production of the M engines in the "Sondermotorenbau" make much of the M-Spirit ... much like the AMG credo "engine build by one person"

Also cheap watches shows the right time, but most technic inspired people would choose an Rolex, Omega, Breitling ... if they habe the money to buy one. Same issue with the new M3/M4 ... going back from an Breitling like S65 to an cheaper more standard S55 engine is an bad move for many real M fans ... also when the S55 fulfil the needed power demands ... and don't forget great torque was never an part of THW real M spirit !!!
Even those watch manufactures use streamlined movements!!!!!!!!! If you want a handmade movement (like a car engine) buy a Patek Phillipe and spend a fortune.

It's all relative. These are all companies that need to survive and make their customers happy at the same time. The Good ol Days are not the same anymore. We have to look at efficiency as part of how these companies survive. I own my own company, you need to do the best you can to keep costs low so you can make a decent living but not sacrifice any quality.
__________________
On the list for an M4!!
jbockrd is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-18-2013, 04:14 PM   #22
Boss330
Colonel
 
Boss330's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 ACS5 3.0i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway, Scandinavia

Posts: 2,239
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Anyone know the details of the M5's cooling, specifically if there is anything additional for the M3/M4 mentioned here?
The F10 M5 has a similarly engineered cooling system with dedicated AC for the DME/ECU. Separate water pump system for cooling turbos after shutting off the engine, loads of additional coolers etc.
Boss330 is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2014 bmw m3, 2014 bmw m3 horsepower, 2014 bmw m3 specs, 2014 bmw m4 horsepower, 2014 bmw m4 specs, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 engine, 2014 m3 forum, 2014 m3 horsepower, 2014 m3 hp, 2014 m3 specs, 2014 m3 weight, 2014 m4 engine, 2014 m4 horsepower, 2014 m4 hp, 2014 m4 specs, 2014 m4 weight, 2015 bmw m3, 2015 bmw m4, 2015 m3, 2015 m3 engine, 2015 m3 specs, 2015 m4, 2015 m4 engine, 2015 m4 hp, 2015 m4 weight, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 s55, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m3 forum, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f82 m4 s55, bmw f82 m4 video, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m3 carbon fiber roof, bmw m3 forum, bmw m3 forums, bmw m3 s55, bmw m3 s55 engine, bmw m3 yas marina blue, bmw m4, bmw m4 concept, bmw m4 concept coupe, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe concept, bmw m4 curb weight, bmw m4 weight, f80 m3 specs, f80 m3 weight, f82 m4 specs, f82 m4 weight, m4 weight

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:38 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST