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02-19-2013, 03:11 PM | #67 | |
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In real life they are easier to drive and more powerful and get a better Mpg too plus on track they're no slouch either.... Cheers Robin(ex E90 M3) |
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02-19-2013, 03:12 PM | #68 |
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What is your definition of keeping up?
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02-19-2013, 03:23 PM | #69 |
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Sorry I meant beat. I'm just saying, there's a lot of benefit to the AWD debate.
Straight line: 0 to 60 (3.5 S8 /3.7 M5) 1/4 Mile (11.8 S8 / 11.9 M5)
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02-19-2013, 03:52 PM | #70 |
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Except for the people who actually track their cars on a consistent basis and track them HARD. Force induction engine are a pain in the ass, heat soak becomes a major problem on hot track days.
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02-19-2013, 03:55 PM | #71 | |
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Audi sales are increasing world wide through aggressive styling and marketing themselves as a cool hip luxury brand and not positioning themselves to be stuffy like Merc or yuppie like BMW. In the words of Steve Jobs..."people don't know what they want until you show it to them."
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02-19-2013, 04:08 PM | #72 |
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Turbochargers - not quite growing on me yet...
Finally, regarding the move away from naturally aspirated engines, Nitschke said: "It's not a change in philosophy, it's a change in technology. Turbocharging is better for fuel savings and CO2."
I see the need for turbocharging and think it's a great solution. I wouldnt mind it if it didnt gargle up the exhaust note so much. There's just no comparison between the current M3 revs and the new M5. |
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02-19-2013, 04:45 PM | #73 |
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It's very sad. "We" here on a forum are a very small percentage of the M car market and even "we" can't agree on what an M car should be. Yes I believe it should be a special lineup car true to its heritage, but as stated before "we" do not buy most of the M cars. Money and profit is all that matters to a company like it or not. BMW will make what the buyers are buying and demanding. I don't blame them, but I also don't like it. Using myself as an example, I don't buy new cars. I get them used with a manual and rear wheel drive. I like sliding it around and working to control it. I don't care as much about numbers like I used to. (Think GTR) I'll take high revving please with Motorsport lineage even if I never use it's full potential. (Although I track). BMW could care less what I think. I don't buy new. They sell an idea to people with money who want to be something they are not. This is the result of success. BMW has accomplished that with M, hence that letter on as many vehicles as possible. Man I love my current, used rwd, high revving, manual dinosaur.
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02-19-2013, 05:32 PM | #74 |
Keep practicing your almost there....
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02-19-2013, 05:56 PM | #75 |
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Love the comment about weight being a penalty when adding AWD....
Duh! Then why do they continually add weight to the new gens and making them all porkers - very contradicting. |
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02-19-2013, 06:06 PM | #76 | ||
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02-19-2013, 06:08 PM | #77 | |
i can haz horsepowr ??
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I love the fact that he was claiming that AWD will add weight when the latest M cars have been massive pigs. Granted, they are "aiming" for E46 M3 weight with the new upcoming M3/M4, but that's still speculation. I somehow doubt it'll be close to the target weight when you add a few bells and whistles to the car, that most will inevitably add (for resale value, of course).
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02-19-2013, 06:11 PM | #78 | |
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hot as well. The 1M s temperature getting higher, just like the M3 s engine temperature but for the rest no real problems like with the M3. Urban myth or something ? I understand the heat problem thing with FI engines in those circumstances .and I also know they are true. But hey if the other car had more issues stated above what can I say ? Cheers Robin |
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02-19-2013, 06:13 PM | #79 | |
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02-19-2013, 06:31 PM | #82 | |
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It's the governments basically forcing them to use Turbo Chargers otherwise they couldn't meet future emission requirements. It really sucks... I guess I'll be an oldtimer fan when I get older |
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02-19-2013, 06:52 PM | #83 | |
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02-19-2013, 07:09 PM | #84 |
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1M is more fun to drive than a RS3 and better on track; manual+rwd vs. DSG+awd, both turbo.
M3 is more fun to drive than a RS5 and better on track; manual or DCT+rwd vs. DSG+awd, both naturally aspirated engines. BMW should keep those above and other similar "facts" in mind instead of doing what others do. This is like they are looking forward to giving up on brand's strengths, absurd imo. Performance cars are not meant to be driven by people who can't drive anything even on a straight line, you can't produce a sports car and define "everyone" as the profile for your target market. These cars are not supposed to be show only, they should merely show what they are capable of doing and that's it. Or I am a relic which may well be true as well
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02-19-2013, 07:13 PM | #85 |
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I dont get the fuel saving idea of a FI engine. I have onwed a couple and i have always gotten better mileage out of my NA cars. And they also aren't perfect in the delivery as you can feel the boost coming on and off making the pedal response very... Inorganic.
I once had a peugeot 207 turbo and my old clio sport kicked its ass in every front with outstanding mileage I also currently have an N52 130i and is better that the 2.0 ecoboost taurus i have as a company car. That thing drinks petrol like mad and even trying harder it wont give more than 25mpg whereas my N52 marvel does almost 30 if I care. So all that bs about mpg is just inflated numbers as real world fuel economy numbers are very bad for FI engines. |
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02-19-2013, 07:45 PM | #86 | |
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02-19-2013, 08:00 PM | #87 | |
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BMW PR was very negative on forced induction when some competitors were beginning to utilize it, especially on smaller engines. MB with their "Kompressor" engines in some of their smaller cars, Audi with its 2.0T and 2.7T engines, and of course porsche had been selling their Turbo for a long time. BMW wanted to be seen as spiritually closer to Ferrari with their high revving engines. Back then they were only selling NA engines so they claimed that FI engines inevitably lead to unacceptably compromised handling. Now they only have FI engines so they claim that NA is an unacceptable compromise on fuel economy. |
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02-19-2013, 08:04 PM | #88 |
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Amen to that! I'd LOVE to see an AWD M3 sedan. I'm sorry, but RWD just isn't practical in the northern climates. Audi is ridiculously popular in Alaska due to AWD, but I'd much rather have an AWD M3 than a RS4/6. I'm also in agreement with other posters that AWD is inevitable given the ever-increasing HP produced.
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