Next generation M3/M4 power train, construction, etc. speculation ...

[Falafel Combo]

Turbo inline 4? Hybrid inline 3, similar to the i8? More carbon fiber construction like the i3? Where are we headed?

[///M1]

Can only be speculation since until 2 days ago we knew nothing about the upcoming M3/4, but my guess is a small V8 TT (4.0 displacement or thereabouts), thats what the next C63 and RS4/5 will mostly likely be having, so only way to keep up with HP wars while staying 'efficient'. Weight reduction won't be as high on the priority list as it is now given the bigger engine and HP will help the power-to-weight ratio, so I'd venture to guess similar to maybe a slight increase in weight despite that platform getting bigger (as they do from generation to generation, but with even more use of CFRP technology BMW can counter that).

I know many are disappointed with the 'only' 11HP increase over the outgoing M3 (which I am sure are conservative numbers and can't wait to see dynos), but I am not, as less weight and 111lbs of tq is what really stands out.

[Randy M]

Horsepower and torque figures can only say so much. The real figure is power/weight.

[aajami]

The F8X generation of M cars is still 6 months away from release, and we're already speculating on the G generation that's 7 years away?

[Chill72]

Originally Posted by ///M235i

Turbo inline 4? Hybrid inline 3, similar to the i8? More carbon fiber construction like the i3? Where are we headed?

[RMB]

Seriously, that is so far away! I have no idea where M will go, however, whatever direction they take I think it is going to be competitive. You never lead from behind. Just my 2 cents.

[paddy335]

Much more energy recovery/hybrid, smaller displacement and potentially fewer cylinders. It's as inevitable as the disappearance of glaciers.

[Ffritz]

Most likely inline-6 Twin Turbo. Best way to go IMO

[SCOTT26]

Let's get this one out first.

But the direction of the next M3 would probably begin with the next generation BMW M5.
It is known that the Carbon Age at BMW has begun and that core models will definitely benefit from the resources of this material technology.
We know the 7er begins this transition and come the launch of the new 7er in 2015 this will be communicated as loud as possible so our competitors can see who has the momentum.

The next 5er will also benefit by the sharing of resources , as it becomes far more cost effective so will the transition.
The next 5er will concentrate its CFRP use in the heaviest areas of the car namely in the chassis and structure, it will not spread CFRP across each body panel which will be on the 7er.
The 5er will concentrate on aluminium for these areas. Although the 5er will not be at a disadvantage. The next 5er in 520d will weigh the same as the 320d.
The reason being the M5 will be able to feature CFRP more extensively especially on the bonnet , roof and bootlid. The timescale will allow this to be applied cost effectively as the M5 will not be shown until 2017.

Although it is apparent that the M3 ,M4 and especially the forthcoming BMW X5M provide the more "functional" appearance to the direction of the M family.
Aerodynamics and dynamics with one purpose.
It is too early to discuss the appearance of the M5 but the standard 5er is ready and waiting.

Its evolutionary in its outline there is a slight wheelbase stretch that accommodates a slightly more dynamic rounded swoop in the roofline. The Touring also has a slight slope at the rear.

The Details are revolutionary , more angled headlights , wider grille joined to the headlights as the typical new BMW design language. It adds individuality and a much more fuller facia including a more sporting edge.

More dimension can be found in the character elements , there are pronounced wheel arches like the current models, and as EfficientDynamics features an Air breather is assisted by more three dimensional elements in the lower flanks leaving room for model line character personalisation.

It is kind of like this render but not completely 100% accurate. The grille was bit squarer around the outline.
These were scale models so details such as inner headlight shapes , exterior detailing , door handles etc and interior etc were not present.


The Gran Turismo, yes a replacement is coming. Strong sales in Asia and Europe all but confirm the replacement and because the car will be based upon similar shared architecture. The GT is a good example of a high profit niche vehicle but entirely cost effective to develop for both the 5er GT and 3erGT. BMW have passed first year projections for 3er GT units sold.
The next generation GT will be based on the China only 5er Li.

The new 5er GT is slightly longer and more like a five dr Coupe , the roof is lower especially at the rear and there is a slightly longer rear deck but the purpose will remain the same. And that is to offer existing 5er customers more luxury and exclusivity as before. Design wise Its a bit more closer to the looks of the 5er but features ideas born from the 3er GT for exclusivity and variation purpose.

In the meantime there is invested interest in progress for the new M3 and M4 , especially a Competition Packet will arrive during the cars life cycle.
Of course further exclusive progress is expected and considered for both models which could use CRT (M3) or indeed GTS or CSL (M4).
The direction depends on what the competition will do. But already the new M3 and M4 have an advantage.
When the cars were introduced internally the previous week , they were announced as the new BMW M3 And BMW M4... A few moments of silence and then the words that echoed across Germany....

Your move....

[solstice]

Interresting Scott. So will the new 7 be lighter than the new 5 similarly equipped ( same engine and options )?

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Let's get this one out first.

But the direction of the next M3 would probably begin with the next generation BMW M5.
It is known that the Carbon Age at BMW has begun and that core models will definitely benefit from the resources of this material technology.
We know the 7er begins this transition and come the launch of the new 7er in 2015 this will be communicated as loud as possible so our competitors can see who has the momentum.

The next 5er will also benefit by the sharing of resources , as it becomes far more cost effective so will the transition.
The next 5er will concentrate its CFRP use in the heaviest areas of the car namely in the chassis and structure, it will not spread CFRP across each body panel which will be on the 7er.
The 5er will concentrate on aluminium for these areas. Although the 5er will not be at a disadvantage. The next 5er in 520d will weigh the same as the 320d.
The reason being the M5 will be able to feature CFRP more extensively especially on the bonnet , roof and bootlid. The timescale will allow this to be applied cost effectively as the M5 will not be shown until 2017.

Although it is apparent that the M3 ,M4 and especially the forthcoming BMW X5M provide the more "functional" appearance to the direction of the M family.
Aerodynamics and dynamics with one purpose.
It is too early to discuss the appearance of the M5 but the standard 5er is ready and waiting.

Its evolutionary in its outline there is a slight wheelbase stretch that accommodates a slightly more dynamic rounded swoop in the roofline. The Touring also has a slight slope at the rear.

The Details are revolutionary , more angled headlights , wider grille joined to the headlights as the typical new BMW design language. It adds individuality and a much more fuller facia including a more sporting edge.

More dimension can be found in the character elements , there are pronounced wheel arches like the current models, and as EfficientDynamics features an Air breather is assisted by more three dimensional elements in the lower flanks leaving room for model line character personalisation.

It is kind of like this render but not completely 100% accurate. The grille was bit squarer around the outline.
These were scale models so details such as inner headlight shapes , exterior detailing , door handles etc and interior etc were not present.


The Gran Turismo, yes a replacement is coming. Strong sales in Asia and Europe all but confirm the replacement and because the car will be based upon similar shared architecture. The GT is a good example of a high profit niche vehicle but entirely cost effective to develop for both the 5er GT and 3erGT. BMW have passed first year projections for 3er GT units sold.
The next generation GT will be based on the China only 5er Li.

The new 5er GT is slightly longer and more like a five dr Coupe , the roof is lower especially at the rear and there is a slightly longer rear deck but the purpose will remain the same. And that is to offer existing 5er customers more luxury and exclusivity as before. Design wise Its a bit more closer to the looks of the 5er but features ideas born from the 3er GT for exclusivity and variation purpose.

In the meantime there is invested interest in progress for the new M3 and M4 , especially a Competition Packet will arrive during the cars life cycle.
Of course further exclusive progress is expected and considered for both models which could use CRT (M3) or indeed GTS or CSL (M4).
The direction depends on what the competition will do. But already the new M3 and M4 have an advantage.
When the cars were introduced internally the previous week , they were announced as the new BMW M3 And BMW M4... A few moments of silence and then the words that echoed across Germany....

Your move....

Mmmkay, so a roughly 200kg (440lb) weight decrease for the 5er, thats good. No actually thats great. However, a "slight wheelbase" stretch? When is BMW going to stop? The F10 is already ENORMOUS. I really hope this stretch is under an inch. Otherwise, the 5er will just be comically large.


As far as design goes, I kind of wish BMW had continued evolving the E60. The car has aged well IMHO.

[bmwF10]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Let's get this one out first.

But the direction of the next M3 would probably begin with the next generation BMW M5.
It is known that the Carbon Age at BMW has begun and that core models will definitely benefit from the resources of this material technology.
We know the 7er begins this transition and come the launch of the new 7er in 2015 this will be communicated as loud as possible so our competitors can see who has the momentum.

The next 5er will also benefit by the sharing of resources , as it becomes far more cost effective so will the transition.
The next 5er will concentrate its CFRP use in the heaviest areas of the car namely in the chassis and structure, it will not spread CFRP across each body panel which will be on the 7er.
The 5er will concentrate on aluminium for these areas. Although the 5er will not be at a disadvantage. The next 5er in 520d will weigh the same as the 320d.
The reason being the M5 will be able to feature CFRP more extensively especially on the bonnet , roof and bootlid. The timescale will allow this to be applied cost effectively as the M5 will not be shown until 2017.

Although it is apparent that the M3 ,M4 and especially the forthcoming BMW X5M provide the more "functional" appearance to the direction of the M family.
Aerodynamics and dynamics with one purpose.
It is too early to discuss the appearance of the M5 but the standard 5er is ready and waiting.

Its evolutionary in its outline there is a slight wheelbase stretch that accommodates a slightly more dynamic rounded swoop in the roofline. The Touring also has a slight slope at the rear.

The Details are revolutionary , more angled headlights , wider grille joined to the headlights as the typical new BMW design language. It adds individuality and a much more fuller facia including a more sporting edge.

More dimension can be found in the character elements , there are pronounced wheel arches like the current models, and as EfficientDynamics features an Air breather is assisted by more three dimensional elements in the lower flanks leaving room for model line character personalisation.

It is kind of like this render but not completely 100% accurate. The grille was bit squarer around the outline.
These were scale models so details such as inner headlight shapes , exterior detailing , door handles etc and interior etc were not present.


The Gran Turismo, yes a replacement is coming. Strong sales in Asia and Europe all but confirm the replacement and because the car will be based upon similar shared architecture. The GT is a good example of a high profit niche vehicle but entirely cost effective to develop for both the 5er GT and 3erGT. BMW have passed first year projections for 3er GT units sold.
The next generation GT will be based on the China only 5er Li.

The new 5er GT is slightly longer and more like a five dr Coupe , the roof is lower especially at the rear and there is a slightly longer rear deck but the purpose will remain the same. And that is to offer existing 5er customers more luxury and exclusivity as before. Design wise Its a bit more closer to the looks of the 5er but features ideas born from the 3er GT for exclusivity and variation purpose.

In the meantime there is invested interest in progress for the new M3 and M4 , especially a Competition Packet will arrive during the cars life cycle.
Of course further exclusive progress is expected and considered for both models which could use CRT (M3) or indeed GTS or CSL (M4).
The direction depends on what the competition will do. But already the new M3 and M4 have an advantage.
When the cars were introduced internally the previous week , they were announced as the new BMW M3 And BMW M4... A few moments of silence and then the words that echoed across Germany....

Your move....

@SCOTT26 What is the internal codename/number of the 5 Series, just for curiosity?

[aajami]

Originally Posted by bmwF10

@SCOTT26 What is the internal codename/number of the 5 Series, just for curiosity?

We can speculate based on some data points.

• Current-gen 7-series was the first car in the F-generation and was called the F01.
• Current-gen 5-series was the second car in the F-generation and was called the F10.
• Next-gen 7-series will be the first G-generation car, and will be called the G11.
• Next-gen 5-series will be the second G-generation car.

It's fair to assume then that next-gen 5-series will likely be dubbed the G20. Time will tell.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The direction depends on what the competition will do.

There used to be a time not too long ago when BMW lead, and others followed :\ Risk aversion leads to mediocrity, Scott!

Sadness.