M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

[Robert]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Hi, that’s just my opinion. I personally currently prefer having a great street car (model 3 P) and a competition car with license plate (eg Spec miata) as my track car.

My lightly modded 996 turbo is on trickle charger 26/30 days.

Maybe others with a lesser track additiction (and can pay for HPDE insurance and maintenance for the few days they go each year) or bigger wallet to heavily track and risk writing off a new 911 would think different

I think I am going down this route as well. While the Model 3 is comfortable and fast and futuristic I miss the feeling of rowing my gears on weekends. I will probably pick up a civic type-r or focus rs as a weekender.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

Are there any rumors of Tesla adding a Speedo / HUD any time in the future? I could live with all of the other interior eccentricities, but lack of anything like that in the drivers sightline is inexcusable IMO.

I used to have the same concerns and preferences, until I started daily driving TM3.
The answer is NO, and it truly doesn't matter. Even though I love the HUD in my ///M3, in TM3 it would be superfluous.

Think about it - there is no tachometer, no water/oil temp gauges, and changing gears is not applicable.
The actual speed value gets easily picked up by peripheral vision from the center screen.

Google maps navigation on the main TM3 screen is less conveniently located, but the quality and user interface to get what you want is a tremendous improvement on the German nav systems (click-5-times to confirm your selection in BMWs and Audis).

I really don't miss the instrument cluster.
And the full richness of Google maps nav could not be projected via HUD.

Originally Posted by blinkme323

The other issue that I found on the M3P that I tested (and others on the lot) was hair, dirt and debris not on the paint, but literally embedded IN the paint. They really need to refine / change their painting process.

That may have been an issue with the demo vehicles, but my TM3P's paint is flawless. No BMW-spec orange peel either.

Originally Posted by blinkme323

Definitely looking forward to the refresh in a few years though.

That the amazing part - Teslas get "refreshed" and updated almost monthly. There is no 4-/6-/8-year refresh cycle with Tesla's.

Major auto-pilot (AP) improvements get pushed over the air (OTA) every month.
Hardware upgrades get included in new cars as parts become available. New AP processors (HW3) are now being installed in TM3's with post 4/22 production dates.
Software bug fixes and new features (track mode, etc) get pushed OTA without waiting for any "mid-cycle refresh" or other artificial deadlines.

It's a totally different manufacturing mind set, that has its own set of challenges and problems. Which is why no traditional automaker is in a position to emulate what Tesla is doing.
Ever.
I'm saying that based on personal professional experience of having worked with most automakers that do business in the US.
Not a chance.


a

[Humdizzle]

waiting on a tesla model 3 nurburgring time. i'm betting it goes into limp mode before the lap is over. Also can the model 3 perf drift around corners? as far as I can tell the traction control system is not defeatable.

I think the car is fine for those who want to commute in it every day. its probably better than an m3 in that regard. but I just can't see it as a fun weekend car.

I'll keep my NA DCT 458 and turbo manual M3 for now. Would love a base model 3 to replace my civic and drive me to work while I nap though

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

waiting on a tesla model 3 nurburgring time. i'm betting it goes into limp mode before the lap is over. Also can the model 3 perf drift around corners? as far as I can tell the traction control system is not defeatable.

I think the car is fine for those who want to commute in it every day. its probably better than an m3 in that regard. but I just can't see it as a fun weekend car.

I'll keep my NA DCT 458 and turbo manual M3 for now. Would love a base model 3 to replace my civic and drive me to work while I nap though

If power reduction counts as “limp mode”, then yes it will definitely do that at the Ring because it does it at a short track like Sonoma after a lap or two. Car will complete laps at a reasonable pace that’s still fun.

The track mode of traction control does allow a bunch of oversteer

It’s not going to be as fun as a 458 for sure if that’s your weekend ride

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by dusadus

I just ordered a Model 3 Performance myself. My feeling is that as BMW and others are emphasizing technology/fuel economy/daily driveability more than being an engaging, race car for the street, they've prepared/trained their owners to more willingly accept a new entrant like Tesla that does all these things light years better....

Congrats! When do you pick it up?

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by IS350

I've had good customer service, for the most part. For any of you Tesla owners, ever notice slight imprints from the rear trunk lid on your lower bumper? I adjusted the rubber screws, hope that helps.

Here is the picture of my trunk - no rubbing after 1.5K miles.
I think you will find it that the adjustment you made took care of the problem for good.

a

[termigni]

Originally Posted by afadeev

For daily - TM3P, all the way.

It's just more of a fun car to drive!

It hurts me to type this out loud (having owned BMW's and ///M's for decades), but TM3P is an all around more engaging car vs. F30, G20, or F80.
TM3P accelerates with super-car pull (extra weight is not noticeable at all), brakes and changes lanes with equal aplomb, and on-board tech is years ahead of anything BMW can put together.
Driving ergonomics are better, and I feel like I get into a 90's car when I get back into ///M3 after driving TM3.
F80 does have better contoured and more supportive seats.

I haven't taken TM3P to autoX/DE yet (that will come later this year), so that's one comparison category for which I have not formed a first-hand opinion yet. People do track TM3's, though. I just need to identify pro's and con's vs. a similarly prepped F80.

I will re-evaluate once G80 comes out.

a

P.S.: BMW ownership also comes with access to BMW CCA - a great auto-enthusiast community. If you are a not a CCA member, you are missing on half the fun of BMW ownership.
P.P.S.: Tesla also has an owner fan base, though they seam to, largely, consist of the opposite of car-guys.

Finally.. an open minded car enthusiast. I feel the same way about Tesla at least for daily. I wouldn't even think about tracking/autoXing the Tesla though. just too heavy, it would eat up the tires in no time.

[dusadus]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Congrats! When do you pick it up?

Been 3 weeks since I ordered and still no VIN. I expect 3 more weeks realistically, but luckily I'm not in a rush so I don't mind the wait. I'm just crossing my fingers for a decently built car. Lots of horror stories out there.

[LeeD31]

Hey folks, just to put my 2 cents in on the conversation. I was a die hard BMW fan. I've owned several BMW's (335i, E92 M3, 1M, F80 M3, X3 M40i) The point is, I just got bored of owning BMW's and I wanted to try out something different. I got rid of my F80 M3 last year and got a Tesla Model 3 Performance (fully loaded) around December. I never test drove the vehicle once, so it was a big gamble for me and I didn't know what to expect.

Let's just say I was pleasantly surprised. I no longer have to worry about fueling up while I am out (I do it at home), it's ridiculously fast, handling is awesome, I really like the minimalist interior (less buttons and nooks to dust), the car is constantly being updated with new features (i.e sentry mode), and I love the regenerative braking. The biggest plus as well is the piece of mind that it won't have the same issues mechanically as an M car and maintenance on the vehicle is minimal. I could easily see myself put +250,000 kms on this car, whereas before when I owned BMW's, I was always limited the kms I drove on them.

I definitely recommend anyone who hasn't driven an electric vehicle to try out a Tesla Model 3.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by dusadus

Been 3 weeks since I ordered and still no VIN. I expect 3 more weeks realistically, but luckily I'm not in a rush so I don't mind the wait. I'm just crossing my fingers for a decently built car. Lots of horror stories out there.

In actuality, the build quality issues are in the past at this point.

Mine (delivered late December) is flawless, as are 95+% of them since at least October 2018...

[dusadus]

Originally Posted by PureModelsOnly

Perfectly reasonable for a $70k car

Well nothing can be worse than the orange peel on my alpine white and the squeaks/rattles on my full leather interior.

I'm not super picky so as long as it's in the ballpark of decent build quality. I'm relatively forgiving.

[dusadus]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

In actuality, the build quality issues are in the past at this point.

Mine (delivered late December) is flawless, as are 95+% of them since at least October 2018...

Finally got my VIN and delivery date. Excited to drive both M3's back to back.

[Alan l.]

Not taking away from the TM3 as it has its place for people that enjoy them. Not a car for me no matter how fast its 0-60 is. It would be a great point A to B car but I want my drives to feel special and have drama which the M3 delivers.

Not having sound or feeling the mechanic rumble of a machine just makes the overall experience lacking imo. Imagine having sex with your dream girl and she stays completely silent the entire time.... completely different experience I would think

Alan

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by dusadus

Finally got my VIN and delivery date. Excited to drive both M3's back to back.

Oh, oh, I smell trouble on the horizon.


You will soon find out that there is only a logical place for only one M3 in your garage, and it will be the one you want to drive the most. At it wont be the German one.

I'm still working through the 5-stage grief cycle over this, stuck on #3-4 right now. #5 is not too far out, and will likely result in fleet reduction.


a

[IS350]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Here is the picture of my trunk - no rubbing after 1.5K miles.
I think you will find it that the adjustment you made took care of the problem for good.

a

Thanks for checking.
I’m hoping it does. I adjusted the outside plugs, the ones in the center did nothing.

[Robert]

It's about 3 weeks since I took delivery.

Some updates:
Negatives
- Discovered my rear window shield cracked from stress (common apparently, scheduled for service)
- Squeaking suspension on accel and decel (common apparently as well, scheduled for service)
- Imperfections, not orange peel. I actually saw a small ding on the hood but the paint is perfect, so I suspect the sheet metal had a ding
- To get the advertised miles you have to be real gentle

Positive
- OMG it is so fast from low speed. It pulls so hard anything short of another Tesla or GT line Porsche can keep up and this is my daily.
- I can drive it like a prius or like muscle car.
- Haven't seen a Costco gas line in almost a month (hurray)
- Fuel cost is 3/4 cheaper
- Don't attract cops. They don't even look at me, practically invisible.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by Robert

It's about 3 weeks since I took delivery.

Some updates:
Negatives
- Discovered my rear window shield cracked from stress (common apparently, scheduled for service)
- Squeaking suspension on accel and decel (common apparently as well, scheduled for service)
- Imperfections, not orange peel. I actually saw a small ding on the hood but the paint is perfect, so I suspect the sheet metal had a ding
- To get the advertised miles you have to be real gentle

Positive
- OMG it is so fast from low speed. It pulls so hard anything short of another Tesla or GT line Porsche can keep up and this is my daily.
- I can drive it like a prius or like muscle car.
- Haven't seen a Costco gas line in almost a month (hurray)
- Fuel cost is 3/4 cheaper
- Don't attract cops. They don't even look at me, practically invisible.

This was my biggest concern. How gentle is gentle? I can drive the M fairly hard and still get 18-19 reliably in mixed driving.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by F82PRETEND

This was my biggest concern. How gentle is gentle? I can drive the M fairly hard and still get 18-19 reliably in mixed driving.

For model 3P, 60-75 mi range on track (1000+ wh/mi) and ~200mile range for faster street driving (350wh/mi) has been my experience.

280-300 miles possible when going 60-70mph; you can accelerate as gently as you want but if you keep speeds 70+mph on the freeway you aren’t going to get the rated range

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Not having sound or feeling the mechanic rumble of a machine just makes the overall experience lacking imo.
Alan

Alan what exhaust setup did you have? I wanted to be a “purist” and coded off ASD on my ‘15 f80 and had stock exhaust. It didn’t sound the best at WOT and there was no aural drama in low rpm down shifts.

I think if I kept ASD on and switched out an aftermarket exhaust I would have connected better with the f80 and kept it longer.

Its subjective I know, but I personally will take no sound over crap/meh sound

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Alan what exhaust setup did you have? I wanted to be a “purist” and coded off ASD on my ‘15 f80 and had stock exhaust. It didn’t sound the best at WOT and there was no aural drama in low rpm down shifts.

I think if I kept ASD on and switched out an aftermarket exhaust I would have connected better with the f80 and kept it longer.

Its subjective I know, but I personally will take no sound over crap/meh sound

I have always been a big critic on how the M3/M4 sounded horrible. Despite this I still ended up with one because I just loved everything else about this car. It checked all of the other boxes for me.

I spent a good year researching exhausts for this car and I always ended with there just wasn't anything out there that I liked. I ended up with a custom stock setup running the magnaflow resonators instead of the secondary cats with the zcp exhaust. That deepened the sound a bit and removed some of the rasp. After that I wanted to see if I could make it sound even better and picked the Akra slip on system. With the magnaflow res up front (stock dp and ASD off) plus the akra slip on I think I achieved the best sound on this platform to my ears. Better than stock, more volume but without sounding like a stupid civic with a fart can that most exhausts for this platform sounds like.

It is one of the best sounding cars on the road now? No. Not by a long shot. Is it better and more acceptable for me? Definitely yes. The sound reminds me more of a E46 M3 but deeper. If I could get rid of the stupid burbles I would enjoy it even more but I don't want to loose warranty by tuning it.

With that said sound is a major part of the 6MT driving experience for me and I just can't fathom not having it in a fun car.

Alan

[Robert]

Originally Posted by BMWModel3

Shouldn't fuel costs be 4/4 cheaper

I consider electricity my fuel :P

[theox05]

There's no doubt that Tesla is a solid contender and the times it puts up are impressive and definitely competitive. The difference for me is subjective. When I step into the M4 I feel like I'm getting into the cockpit of a jet fighter. The seats, the interior, the lighting, the sounds, the smells, the gauges, etc. I feel like I'm in a damn rocket ship ready for blast off. I stepped into a friends Model 3 and I was sorely disappointed. To me it looked like a Motel 6 on the inside with a wall mounted tablet, subjectively, of course. When Tesla starts understanding more the "experience" of owning a high performance car and modeling their interior and exterior design around that, I'll definitely consider them for my next car. But for right now, I'll take my rocket ship.