6MT or DCT?

[Oakleyguy]

Rev matching is fantastic when you're in heavy traffic. Else, just leave her in Sport+ and stop complaining.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Ok

I think your commend summed it all up. No need for more words.

[Projectile]

Ok. I fully accept that cost is a valid reason for getting the 6MT.

But this does not address my OP, wherein I challenge the commonly proposed reasons for getting the MT - "more engaging and fun".

I fully acknowledged that you still get to launch the car yourself with a MT ("feathering the throttle and clutch and popping the clutch") and that this is part of the fun of driving a MT. For me, this is a small portion of the fun of driving an MT. Smooth upshifts, power upshifts, and rev matching down shifts, especially heel-toe downshifts seem to be the real challenges and therefore the fun part of a MT.

I am fully aware that if you do not push the clutch, move the gear lever, and release the clutch, nothing will happen. But when the computer matches revs for you, this is precisely what I call "going through the motions".

It seems to me that with the MT, you move your left foot and right arm to accomplish a gear change (no skill involved, and, for me, no fun), or you pull a paddle (no skill involved, and, for me, no fun).

If neither involve skill (and where can the fun be without a challenge? Can just moving your foot and arm really be that fun?) then why not get the more versatile, fast, and efficient transmission: the DCT?

On the other hand, if turning off rev matching was as easy as 'on/off' independent of any other settings, then this car would have a truly manual option. I mean, why didn't BMW provide that option? If they had, this thread wouldn't exist. But as it stands, the MT doesn't seem like a good MT option, and the DCT looks more attractive compared to this MT that BMW has provided.

[Projectile]

If rev matching isn't the main reason to get a manual over the DCT, please elaborate the other reasons.

Note: I've already acknowledged launching the car.

Note: rev matching is the difficult (read: challenging, fun) part of a MT, which is precisely why BMW provided automatic rev matching: to make MTs super easy and smooth to use.

Ok. I'm all ears.

[Blksnowflake]

Nonsense, get the manual. If you "think" in your opinion that the manual is less engaging, what makes you think the DCT option is for you, it rev matches and shifts for you, and you will never have the third pedal. Also, if you're such a professional toe heeling wheeling and dealing driver who handles his own rev matching, I'm sure you should be able to handle the "supposed" hyper sensitive throttle mapping,.....of which I have not heard mentioned by anyone reviewing the manual tranny.

or just keep the E92, the end.

[48Laws]

I enjoy the manipulation of the car I'm driving with both hands and feet. If I want to text and drive, i'd get Dct. Lol

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by Projectile

I am fully aware that if you do not push the clutch, move the gear lever, and release the clutch, nothing will happen. But when the computer matches revs for you, this is precisely what I call "going through the motions".

It seems to me that with the MT, you move your left foot and right arm to accomplish a gear change (no skill involved, and, for me, no fun), or you pull a paddle (no skill involved, and, for me, no fun).

If neither involve skill (and where can the fun be without a challenge? Can just moving your foot and arm really be that fun?) then why not get the more versatile, fast, and efficient transmission: the DCT?

I am beginning to doubt your ability to actually drive a manual, in all seriousness. If pushing the clutch in, changing gears, determining the appropriate throttle and letting the clutch out (whether rev matching or not) requires no skill, then why do so many people not know how to drive a manual correctly vs. an automatic/dct? Rev matching is just one 'going through the motions' skill which is really only mandatory on the track or braking abruptly.

You sir are, indeed, a troll. You know perfectly well you are perpetuating unfounded thoughts against the common well-established knowledge/experience of the collective thought which is the definition of a troll. Please stay out of manual cars.

[Blksnowflake]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

I am beginning to doubt your ability to actually drive a manual, in all seriousness. If pushing the clutch in, changing gears, determining the appropriate throttle and letting the clutch out (whether rev matching or not) requires no skill, then why do so many people not know how to drive a manual correctly vs. an automatic/dct? Rev matching is just one 'going through the motions' skill which is really only mandatory on the track or braking abruptly.

You sir are, indeed, a troll. You know perfectly well you are perpetuating unfounded thoughts against the common well-established knowledge/experience of the collective thought which is the definition of a troll. Please stay out of manual cars.

Preach brotha, thats right....

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Projectile

If rev matching isn't the main reason to get a manual over the DCT, please elaborate the other reasons.

Note: I've already acknowledged launching the car.

Note: rev matching is the difficult (read: challenging, fun) part of a MT, which is precisely why BMW provided automatic rev matching: to make MTs super easy and smooth to use.

Ok. I'm all ears.

No, you're not all ears. You've made your point very clearly, and I highly doubt that you'll change it.

Basically, the only thing that's changed with this system is downshift rev matching. Not upshift rev matching, nor the action of the clutch or the lever, or the fact that you can choose the gear without being overridden.

So what you are essentially saying is that the only part of the manual transmission experience that's interesting to you is matching revs on downshift. Basically akin to saying the only part of a 5 course meal that you're interested in is the vegetables that come with the main dish.

Sounds like manual transmissions just aren't for you.

Have you even driven the F80 manual transmission? I suspect not. It's not all "iRobot", smooth and silky as you think if you're not trying. If you drive it like a putz, it'll balk.

[AustinY 2208]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

I enjoy the manipulation of the car I'm driving with both hands and feet. If I want to text and drive, i'd get Dct. Lol

Yup you're right

[AustinY 2208]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

I am beginning to doubt your ability to actually drive a manual, in all seriousness. If pushing the clutch in, changing gears, determining the appropriate throttle and letting the clutch out (whether rev matching or not) requires no skill, then why do so many people not know how to drive a manual correctly vs. an automatic/dct? Rev matching is just one 'going through the motions' skill which is really only mandatory on the track or braking abruptly.

You sir are, indeed, a troll. You know perfectly well you are perpetuating unfounded thoughts against the common well-established knowledge/experience of the collective thought which is the definition of a troll. Please stay out of manual cars.

Nice write-up!

[captainaudio]

I do not believe that rev matching and heel and toe is only for the track. IMO all downshifts should be rev matched. The fact that you can get away with a non rev matched downshift without unsettling the car when you are driving well below the limits does not mean rev matching is unnecessary,

I also do not agree that you get more control with an MT than with a DCT. If that was the case race cars, which need as much control as possible, would have MTs and at this point in time very few race cars have MTs (and not because the drivers need to text).

As for MTs being more engaging and being harder to learn how to drive, I don't dispute that. But driving an MT is not rocket science and with proper instruction can be learned in a few hours and mastered in a few days.

I also think rev matching on an MT is lame and would not get a car with that feature unless I could turn it off.

As for using both feet.
I am in the process of installing a larger brake pedal in my M$ DCT because I want to master left foot braking, which I have to admit after years of right foot braking feels very unnatural.

In any case the reason you get an MT is because you want an MT and because you enjoy driving an MT and if there is a more legitimate reason than that I don't know what it would be.

[MavRick]

Originally Posted by M Drei Fahrer

Do you think matching your own revs is the only fun, and engaging aspect of driving a manual car? If so, by all means, get the DCT.

Exactly. I find a manual more fun/engaging and I cant heel-toe to save my life...

[AMPowerJ]

Who cares?

Yet another thread of this is what I think so you should think it too or at least make me feel better about what I think. :roll eyes:

I've had DCT and 6MT. Both have pros and cons. Guess what ... just like everything else in life. There is no perfect answer.

If I am in stop and go traffic - wish I had DCT
If I am just cruising around - wish I had 6MT
If I am on the track to run the fastest lap - wish I had DCT
If I am on the track to have fun - wish I had 6MT
If I am on the drag strip - wish I had DCT
If I am trying to save almost $3000 - wish I had 6MT
If I am wanting to be involved as possible at driving my car - wish I had 6MT

I could keep going but the point is once again, there is no perfect answer for everyone except this very one:

I can't drive a 6MT - HAVE to HAVE a DCT

[WVUDrJay]

I wanted a manual...... So I bought a manual. Lotta odd posts around here today.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

No, you're not all ears. You've made your point very clearly, and I highly doubt that you'll change it.

Basically, the only thing that's changed with this system is downshift rev matching. Not upshift rev matching, nor the action of the clutch or the lever, or the fact that you can choose the gear without being overridden.

So what you are essentially saying is that the only part of the manual transmission experience that's interesting to you is matching revs on downshift. Basically akin to saying the only part of a 5 course meal that you're interested in is the vegetables that come with the main dish.

Sounds like manual transmissions just aren't for you.

Have you even driven the F80 manual transmission? I suspect not. It's not all "iRobot", smooth and silky as you think if you're not trying. If you drive it like a putz, it'll balk.

Actually, the 6MT F8X will rev match for both a downshift and an upshift in all modes except for Sport+.

beyond that, I agree with you completely. I have a 6MT and love every second of driving it. I'm usually in Sport + mode, so I'm doing my own rev matching.

[SierraZulu9]

I dont see how anyone who has at least driven a manual will think that auto rev matching will somehow take the fun away from the 6MT. I got the m4 with the 6MT and it's amazing. And if auto rev matching for some reason isn't your thing... then switch the car into sport+ .. that will turn the auto rev matching off. DCT is a great transmission.. but I'd rather be able to launch whenever I want than to have to sit there and mess with the launch control on the DCT and set my rpms where i want them to be.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I do not believe that rev matching and heel and toe is only for the track. IMO all downshifts should be rev matched. The fact that you can get away with a non rev matched downshift without unsettling the car when you are driving well below the limits does not mean rev matching is unnecessary,

I also do not agree that you get more control with an MT than with a DCT. If that was the case race cars, which need as much control as possible, would have MTs and at this point in time very few race cars have MTs (and not because the drivers need to text).

As for MTs being more engaging and being harder to learn how to drive, I don't dispute that. But driving an MT is not rocket science and with proper instruction can be learned in a few hours and mastered in a few days.

I also think rev matching on an MT is lame and would not get a car with that feature unless I could turn it off.

As for using both feet.
I am in the process of installing a larger brake pedal in my M$ DCT because I want to master left foot braking, which I have to admit after years of right foot braking feels very unnatural.

In any case the reason you get an MT is because you want an MT and because you enjoy driving an MT and if there is a more legitimate reason than that I don't know what it would be.

This isn't a DCT vs 6MT debate. It's a 6MT vs a 6MT with rev matching debate. The question is whether the 6MT with rev matching has the same type of experience as a non-rev matched 6MT. And the answer is unequivocally yes.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

Actually, the 6MT F8X will rev match for both a downshift and an upshift in all modes except for Sport+.

beyond that, I agree with you completely. I have a 6MT and love every second of driving it. I'm usually in Sport + mode, so I'm doing my own rev matching.

Ok, my bad. Never noticed that on the times I've driven both the F80 and F10 M5 6MT. Seemed to be pretty normal to me.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

A DCT will never replace a true car enthusiasts fun factor/respect from others.

Never.

And before you give 1009292039 reasons as to why a DCT is better... All I need is one.

"Yeah but it's not a manual"

[Projectile]

I have driven the F82 6MT, and it does rev match on up shifts.

Next time you drive yours, shift up but avoid releasing the clutch. After a few seconds, you'll see the RPM drop from from the rev matched RPM to the idling RPM.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by WVUDrJay

I wanted a manual...... So I bought a manual. Lotta odd posts around here today.

Sounds logical to me.