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09-07-2015, 06:31 PM | #46 | |
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I will also bet that there are many Porsche enthusiasts who will loathe this transformation. I know of more than a few M owners that went from BMW to Porsche STRICTLY for the NA vs FI Can't wait to see the comments from the E9X M3 guys that glom on to this FI Porsche when they shit all over the F8X M for going FI. I will guaranty you it happens. |
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09-07-2015, 08:04 PM | #47 |
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Get real...if someone don't need rear seats of course the 911 would be superior even as a DD.
The dynamics of the 991 is far superior as evident from the pre-face lifted 991 VS M4 comparisons and now the gap would be even wider. Check on these improvements 1. Optional rear-wheel steering system 2. Newly tuned PASM system which provides a 10mm reduction in nominal ride allied to wider 11.5 inch wide rear wheels (Carrera S at 305mm) 3. New front bumper with active air ducts that close at speeds above 15km/h and then open again at 170km/h The base and S are Porsche's bread and butter in the 911 range so of course they will make sure that they get them right and I have no doubt that they will. |
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09-07-2015, 08:10 PM | #48 |
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09-07-2015, 08:12 PM | #49 | |
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at 90k 911 you are getting BMW M numbers. |
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09-07-2015, 08:45 PM | #51 |
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I checked the boxes that I would want in my C7, although yeah I did go for the 3LZ trim (and the performance package). But I can see how you could walk away with one for 85K. Even at 100K you are still getting Ferrari numbers and most definitely a car that will make most grown men poo in their pants.
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09-07-2015, 08:53 PM | #52 | |
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BUT... Below 5,000 rpms, it felt not one bit faster than my 4100 lb E93. In fact, over 5,000 rpms, it felt only slightly faster than my E93. Subjectively speaking, my F80 feels (subjectively) a million times faster, and is a million times more fun to drive, at least off the track (only 911 I've driven on a track is the 991 GT3 - holy cow - what a car - revving that thing out to 9,000 rpm at each shift - amazing)!!!! When I drove away from the dealer in my E93, I honestly thought my E93 was more fun to drive than the base 991.1 Carrera. I have never driven the 991.1 S, but I'm sure that was much more exciting than the base model both on and off the track... That being said - and based upon that experience, my prediction is that many people will think that the 991.2 base and S Carreras will be much more fun to drive off the track vs. the 991.1 (I'm going to test drive a "base" 991.2 Carrera when it is available just to do an "apples to apples" comparison vs. the 991.1 base model - looking forward to it)! And yes - the hypocrisy of those who wouldn't even give the F8x generation a chance for the simple reason that it is turbocharged is going to become apparent here very quickly. |
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09-07-2015, 09:19 PM | #53 |
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Similarly equipped I'd think you get a GTR or Z06 for the price of a Carrera and an M3 for a bit more than half the price of the Carrera. The GTR and Z06 destroys the P-car performance wise and M3 has more creature comfort for the street and nearly matches it's performance. The Carrera is still a very attractive package as a mix of looks, performance, quality and status but I also think it's fair to question if 370hp and 340 TQ isn't on the low side? At $100k reasonably equipped and a purpose built sports car it should probably be a fair bit faster than the M3. The S seems like a better buy but I do think Porsche is being stingy with the engines especially now when the aural drama of a NA engine is gone. FI is mainly about power and it's just doesn't seem that impressive.
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09-07-2015, 09:45 PM | #54 | |
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09-08-2015, 02:36 AM | #55 | |
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If they offered 500 HP to the 911S, what would they do with the 911 Turbo? There's some hierarchy in Porsche range, just as there is one in BMW range as well (M3 needs to have less HP than M5).
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09-08-2015, 05:07 AM | #56 |
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There are loads of objective metrics out there. If you believe that dyno measurements inflate the actual outputs then that doesn't prevent the relative outputs being measured.
There's also real world experience and observable acceleration numbers. I don't disagree on your statement about the 911 making more than the advertised output. I bemoan the loss of the NA engine and the fact that the new engine (on paper, at least) looks to be less of an engineering achievement than the competition. Here's a good objective assessment: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1038740 Last edited by M4GTS; 09-08-2015 at 05:27 AM.. |
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09-08-2015, 05:48 AM | #57 |
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Figures are just figures.
The driving experience alone will tell a lot about the engine. We can't get that by just reading into a figure. We can do an estimation with a lot of figures but we don't have them here. If anyone knows about turbo charging its Porsche and I have no doubt the new engine would be stellar. With the substantial increased in low and mid range torque (area under the power curve), the difference would be much more prominent than just reading into a peak HP figure. I don't believe in those dyno figures in the view of measuring absolute power because simply they are not consistent with too many variations build in around error corrections. They are only useful for comparisons at the time of tuning a car on the same day. |
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09-08-2015, 06:42 AM | #58 |
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The 911 and the 991 in particular are probably the best cars on the road. Regardless of power comparison, the build quality, the handling, the timeless styling are, IMO, outstanding.
I have always been a BMW fan and have had my fair share of 316i-Z4-740i-M5-M4 and also my fair share of 911's (997.1, 997.2, 991) and I can say that while I love the M4, the 991 is a tantalizing package. |
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09-08-2015, 10:40 AM | #59 | |
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I just feel a 100k+ 911S should have 500HP. thats where i would start saying the car is fast enough to be worth the money for street driven people. |
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09-08-2015, 10:46 AM | #60 | |
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Now, for pricing, I agree, it's a lot of money for what they offer and one could find similar performance for less money, one example being the current M3.
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09-08-2015, 10:53 AM | #61 | |
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With the new cars. 379 hp is more like 420 and 420 more like 460-470 hp. You can be damn sure no other car with 420 hp with be able to come close to the track times it puts down or in straights given the current S/GTS trap 118 mph. Hell, most 550 hp cars won't be able to touch it on track. This car will be indeed impressive as Porsche does turbos likely better than anyone. The dynamics and handling and the scalpel like precision as well as the responsiveness of the engine will be spectacular. |
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09-08-2015, 11:00 AM | #62 | |
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911 competitor |
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09-08-2015, 11:13 AM | #63 |
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Wow if those are the specs on the base model the turbo and gt3 are going to be crazy.
That said, the value is getting to be pretty poor, especially when viper and z06 are getting more well rounded. |
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09-08-2015, 11:14 AM | #64 |
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Surprise, surprise...I'm still disappointed. To me a $100k equipped sports car today need more power. With the 2015s you get a bigger engine for your money with the S, now you get some more boost. I dunno, the more I think of it the bigger the disappointment. They should have gone bigger and made the Carrera thouroughly spank the M4 segement. Now they will again be compared to these relative budget cars when it should be well out in the distance. Complacent and taking advantage of it's name and fans.
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09-08-2015, 11:29 AM | #65 |
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By the time I spec a 911 it is close to $120k and that isn't even the S version. I like Porsche very much, but my M4 to me seems like the better value. After reviewing the stats on the new 911 engines I feel that the M4 engine is a really good engine.
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09-08-2015, 11:34 AM | #66 |
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Indeed! The 911 no longer has anything to set it apart, sure it's fast, but then a GTR is faster still and cheaper. The loss of the mechanical rack, and now the NA have killed it for me, so I hope they will now start to differentiate the GT models more and increase production.
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