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      05-31-2015, 12:50 AM   #265
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This might be a dumb question but....

When is the credit app done on an ED order? At time of order or within a month of delivery?
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      05-31-2015, 07:13 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by verruckt View Post
This might be a dumb question but....

When is the credit app done on an ED order? At time of order or within a month of delivery?
It's depends on your lead time. You want the credit app done anytime within the 60 or 90 day lock period. Once you know your ED pickup date then apply that thinking. So with different timing all 3 may be separate or together. The order usually doesn't change though.
1- Order placed (Earliest is usually within 6 months of desired pickup date)
2- Credit app (as explained above)
3- Final financing (from 2 weeks out to the day before, but usually a week before)

1 & 2 may flip if there is concern about credit.
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      06-09-2015, 09:50 AM   #267
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Are there any negatives/downsides to doing the MSDs to lower the MF? I understand the benefits, but are there any drawbacks? One of the dealers in Texas actually suggested against doing them, he said

"And yes they do give you the money back at the end, but they also have a lot of leverage over lease-end charges like excessive wear-and-tear for example. They are holding several thousand of your dollars hostage, and can use that against you to pay for any damage to the car."

Should I be worried about the above statement? I understand if the car needs a lot of repairs and i don't get them done then they would take the MSDs but do they abuse the fact that I have MSDs and take advantage of them? This is my first lease, so I want to make sure I know what i'm doing.
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      06-09-2015, 12:24 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inprogress View Post
Are there any negatives/downsides to doing the MSDs to lower the MF? I understand the benefits, but are there any drawbacks? One of the dealers in Texas actually suggested against doing them, he said

"And yes they do give you the money back at the end, but they also have a lot of leverage over lease-end charges like excessive wear-and-tear for example. They are holding several thousand of your dollars hostage, and can use that against you to pay for any damage to the car."

Should I be worried about the above statement? I understand if the car needs a lot of repairs and i don't get them done then they would take the MSDs but do they abuse the fact that I have MSDs and take advantage of them? This is my first lease, so I want to make sure I know what i'm doing.
I think this depends on how you take care of your car. Your concerns for MSDs in addition to that should be if you try to get out of it using swapalease, you will struggle finding someone to give you that amount of money up front.

If you take care of your car and ensure you don't go in with tires below the minimum tread, stay under the mileage limit, and keep your car until lease end, I wouldn't worry.

It's better financially than putting money towards the cap cost, which also has it's own risk during the lease if your car is totaled.

IMO, the best bet is as little down as possible, roll as much into the lease as possible, and maximum MSDs, assuming you keep it the entire time, stay under the mileage, and in general just take care of it.
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      06-09-2015, 02:26 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inprogress View Post
Are there any negatives/downsides to doing the MSDs to lower the MF? I understand the benefits, but are there any drawbacks? One of the dealers in Texas actually suggested against doing them, he said

"And yes they do give you the money back at the end, but they also have a lot of leverage over lease-end charges like excessive wear-and-tear for example. They are holding several thousand of your dollars hostage, and can use that against you to pay for any damage to the car."

Should I be worried about the above statement? I understand if the car needs a lot of repairs and i don't get them done then they would take the MSDs but do they abuse the fact that I have MSDs and take advantage of them? This is my first lease, so I want to make sure I know what i'm doing.

In addition to guarnibl 's correct statement, BMW is fairly straight forward with their lease end expectations. They have a video on BMWUSA.com going over what's covered and what's not. I also rarely see many complaints about lease turn in conflicts. The biggest issue is usually about putting the right tires on the car. Many times a car comes with RFTs and are turned in with non-RFLTs. You just have to pay attention to the OEM tire.
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      06-09-2015, 04:23 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guarnibl View Post
I think this depends on how you take care of your car. Your concerns for MSDs in addition to that should be if you try to get out of it using swapalease, you will struggle finding someone to give you that amount of money up front.

If you take care of your car and ensure you don't go in with tires below the minimum tread, stay under the mileage limit, and keep your car until lease end, I wouldn't worry.

It's better financially than putting money towards the cap cost, which also has it's own risk during the lease if your car is totaled.

IMO, the best bet is as little down as possible, roll as much into the lease as possible, and maximum MSDs, assuming you keep it the entire time, stay under the mileage, and in general just take care of it.
Thank you for providing such insight, I really appreciate it!

I did have 1 question, you say that MSDs are a problem if i try to swaplease, does the same difficulty arise if i want to sell my car back to the dealer? I know I can swap my lease, but i can also get out of my lease early if the dealer offers a decent value for my car that covers my remaining lease balance right? Would the MSDs get in my way of that option as well?
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      06-09-2015, 05:07 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inprogress View Post
I did have 1 question, you say that MSDs are a problem if i try to swaplease, does the same difficulty arise if i want to sell my car back to the dealer? I know I can swap my lease, but i can also get out of my lease early if the dealer offers a decent value for my car that covers my remaining lease balance right? Would the MSDs get in my way of that option as well?
No, that works fine. Trading in the car is just doing a lease buyout, in which case your contractual obligation will be met and you'll get the security deposit(s) returned to you.
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      06-09-2015, 07:04 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inprogress View Post
Thank you for providing such insight, I really appreciate it!

I did have 1 question, you say that MSDs are a problem if i try to swaplease, does the same difficulty arise if i want to sell my car back to the dealer? I know I can swap my lease, but i can also get out of my lease early if the dealer offers a decent value for my car that covers my remaining lease balance right? Would the MSDs get in my way of that option as well?
Another thing to consider is sometimes BMW does pull ahead programs. This means they'll make up to six payments for you if you get into a new BMW. Pretty cool, right? If this program is available at the last 6 months of your lease (or earlier if you order a car and it takes 6 weeks to arrive, more if ED), you can actually sometimes turn your 36 month lease deal into less than 30 months of payments for each car. Assuming it's available 8 months prior to my lease ending and will be around for another 2 months, I'm going to order a car for ED at the 8 month marker, and by the time I'm ready to sign my ED paperwork, I'm at the 6 month marker. This means I will have made a total of 26 payments on a 36 month lease, with a slightly elevated MF from ED, but that's been reduced through MSDs. It still turns out to roughly the same cost as a reduced MF 27 payments I think, perhaps slightly less from what I'm calculating. Either way -- optimum payment based on 36 month residuals, cash value of 27 payments until new car, and an almost-paid for Europe trip from the savings every ~2 years (depending on flights/hotels).
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      06-10-2015, 11:24 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guarnibl View Post
Another thing to consider is sometimes BMW does pull ahead programs. This means they'll make up to six payments for you if you get into a new BMW. Pretty cool, right? If this program is available at the last 6 months of your lease (or earlier if you order a car and it takes 6 weeks to arrive, more if ED), you can actually sometimes turn your 36 month lease deal into less than 30 months of payments for each car. Assuming it's available 8 months prior to my lease ending and will be around for another 2 months, I'm going to order a car for ED at the 8 month marker, and by the time I'm ready to sign my ED paperwork, I'm at the 6 month marker. This means I will have made a total of 26 payments on a 36 month lease, with a slightly elevated MF from ED, but that's been reduced through MSDs. It still turns out to roughly the same cost as a reduced MF 27 payments I think, perhaps slightly less from what I'm calculating. Either way -- optimum payment based on 36 month residuals, cash value of 27 payments until new car, and an almost-paid for Europe trip from the savings every ~2 years (depending on flights/hotels).
So basically putting a down toward cap cost could burn me if i decide to swap the lease, get into a new car before my lease is up, or god forbid i get into a wreck of some sort early on in the lease right?

So why would anyone want to put down toward the cap cost? I imagine lowering the monthly payment is the only reason?
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      06-10-2015, 12:11 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inprogress View Post
So basically putting a down toward cap cost could burn me if i decide to swap the lease, get into a new car before my lease is up, or god forbid i get into a wreck of some sort early on in the lease right?

So why would anyone want to put down toward the cap cost? I imagine lowering the monthly payment is the only reason?
You nailed it -- it's a mental thing for the monthly payment IMO.

It does reduce the interest paid slightly, but it's immaterial and it's all about balancing risk for people. Depending on when the accident occurs in the lease period, you're at risk losing any money you put down towards the cap cost. Swapping the lease is the same risk, as you would have a tough time getting someone to give you (some of) that cash back.
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      06-12-2015, 05:39 AM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guarnibl View Post
It does reduce the interest paid slightly, but it's immaterial and it's all about balancing risk for people. Depending on when the accident occurs in the lease period, you're at risk losing any money you put down towards the cap cost. Swapping the lease is the same risk, as you would have a tough time getting someone to give you (some of) that cash back.
The flip side on swap a lease is that it seems most people don't read this thread and simply do what the dealer tells them: put a large capital reduction money downpayment to lower the monthly payment.

I leased a 535xi with no money down once. The rest of the deal on that car was good. Good discount off of MSRP and BMW MF with no markup. When I lost my job a while back, I tried to get rid of it on swap-a-lease, but my monthly payment was about $100 higher than every other 535xi available so I got no takers and kept it till lease end since I did not want to pay for additional incentive to another party.

My advice based on that experience is only lease a car if you are certain you are going to keep it for the lease period. If you think you want to get rid of it in a short timeframe, financing is probably a better way to go.
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      06-12-2015, 10:18 AM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potxoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by guarnibl View Post
It does reduce the interest paid slightly, but it's immaterial and it's all about balancing risk for people. Depending on when the accident occurs in the lease period, you're at risk losing any money you put down towards the cap cost. Swapping the lease is the same risk, as you would have a tough time getting someone to give you (some of) that cash back.
The flip side on swap a lease is that it seems most people don't read this thread and simply do what the dealer tells them: put a large capital reduction money downpayment to lower the monthly payment.

I leased a 535xi with no money down once. The rest of the deal on that car was good. Good discount off of MSRP and BMW MF with no markup. When I lost my job a while back, I tried to get rid of it on swap-a-lease, but my monthly payment was about $100 higher than every other 535xi available so I got no takers and kept it till lease end since I did not want to pay for additional incentive to another party.

My advice based on that experience is only lease a car if you are certain you are going to keep it for the lease period. If you think you want to get rid of it in a short timeframe, financing is probably a better way to go.
+1. I think the risk is primarily in MSDs and a large amount of cash down -- a small amount down and a good deal on the price will keep your lease payment in check with the rest of them.
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      06-12-2015, 10:58 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potxoli View Post
The flip side on swap a lease is that it seems most people don't read this thread and simply do what the dealer tells them: put a large capital reduction money downpayment to lower the monthly payment.

I leased a 535xi with no money down once. The rest of the deal on that car was good. Good discount off of MSRP and BMW MF with no markup. When I lost my job a while back, I tried to get rid of it on swap-a-lease, but my monthly payment was about $100 higher than every other 535xi available so I got no takers and kept it till lease end since I did not want to pay for additional incentive to another party.

My advice based on that experience is only lease a car if you are certain you are going to keep it for the lease period. If you think you want to get rid of it in a short timeframe, financing is probably a better way to go.
You did get stuck in a pickle, but one conservative way to avoid that is to take the money earmarked for cap cost and put it in a separate account. You could make small monthly transfers to reduce your monthly payment. Then even with swap a lease, you can use what's left as a cash incentive should you have trouble moving it.
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      06-16-2015, 11:13 PM   #278
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I have a question about California which I didn't see answered in this thread.

My lease deal pretty much ends up like being described in the initial post, but I have 2 more line items for initial and annual title cost. That pretty much seems to match the registration fees I'd have to pay for that car annually.

As it isn't mentioned in the original thread, is it normal that these are included in the lease? (It's $420 yearly and it's added post financing, cap cost around $47.5k)
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      06-17-2015, 12:12 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdi View Post
I have a question about California which I didn't see answered in this thread.

My lease deal pretty much ends up like being described in the initial post, but I have 2 more line items for initial and annual title cost. That pretty much seems to match the registration fees I'd have to pay for that car annually.

As it isn't mentioned in the original thread, is it normal that these are included in the lease? (It's $420 yearly and it's added post financing, cap cost around $47.5k)
Sounds like the tag and title fee and should be the same as if buying the car. Normal charge in my book.
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      06-18-2015, 12:50 AM   #280
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Excellent post thread. About this time next year I am planning on leasing a M4, I am interested in doing the 7 MSD's it seems like a decent way to reduce the payment and since you get your money back at the end I figure that is not a bad deal. My wife has a psychological thing about a lease payment over 800 per month so I have to do what I can to get it below to keep the piece. I am pretty sure that at the end of the 36 months I will turn the car in but I suspect my car will be under the mileage by perhaps 10- 15k so I may want to buy it at the end of the lease and sell it or perhaps keep it. I assume if I buy out the lease I get the MSD's refunded, is that correct?? For those curious on the mileage situation I have a company car that I now use for commute and work so that is why I think my mileage will be significantly lower than the 10k per year. In the past my 24k per year of commute miles kept me from even considering a lease.
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      06-18-2015, 06:43 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pruettfan View Post
Excellent post thread. About this time next year I am planning on leasing a M4, I am interested in doing the 7 MSD's it seems like a decent way to reduce the payment and since you get your money back at the end I figure that is not a bad deal. My wife has a psychological thing about a lease payment over 800 per month so I have to do what I can to get it below to keep the piece. I am pretty sure that at the end of the 36 months I will turn the car in but I suspect my car will be under the mileage by perhaps 10- 15k so I may want to buy it at the end of the lease and sell it or perhaps keep it. I assume if I buy out the lease I get the MSD's refunded, is that correct?? For those curious on the mileage situation I have a company car that I now use for commute and work so that is why I think my mileage will be significantly lower than the 10k per year. In the past my 24k per year of commute miles kept me from even considering a lease.

Yes you would get the MSD money back if you buy the car. The only times your money is in jeopardy is if the car has damages on lease turn in, you swap the lease to another party, or if you default on payments.
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      06-19-2015, 07:38 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by OneRib View Post
It's depends on your lead time. You want the credit app done anytime within the 60 or 90 day lock period. Once you know your ED pickup date then apply that thinking. So with different timing all 3 may be separate or together. The order usually doesn't change though.
1- Order placed (Earliest is usually within 6 months of desired pickup date)
2- Credit app (as explained above)
3- Final financing (from 2 weeks out to the day before, but usually a week before)

1 & 2 may flip if there is concern about credit.

This thread is extremely helpful so thanks for putting it together OneRib ! Quick question on the above. Is there any difference between the 60-day or 90-day lock period? Why not just make it a 90-day lock? Dont get why there are two lock in periods.

Thanks
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      06-19-2015, 09:05 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by frisky View Post
This thread is extremely helpful so thanks for putting it together OneRib ! Quick question on the above. Is there any difference between the 60-day or 90-day lock period? Why not just make it a 90-day lock? Dont get why there are two lock in periods.

Thanks
f.
Glad you are finding the thread helpful. BMWFS gives a longer lock period for west coast deliveries. It's just due to the longer transport time. I just don't know how they divide it up for the middle of the country. My educated guess is where your car comes into port. Anything shipping from CA or Washington gets 90 days. East coast ports get 60.
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      06-19-2015, 09:13 AM   #284
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Glad you are finding the thread helpful. BMWFS gives a longer lock period for west coast deliveries. It's just due to the longer transport time. I just don't know how they divide it up for the middle of the country. My educated guess is where your car comes into port. Anything shipping from CA or Washington gets 90 days. East coast ports get 60.
Aha! That makes sense. So I get 60 days lock. Good to know!

Thanks!
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      06-25-2015, 01:55 PM   #285
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The best way to calculate a lease payment is to use the leasematic app (only available on Apple). It was created by a forum member and he has been working on an android version, but none right now.
Hi guys / OneRib

Leasematic is finally available for Android on Google Play store!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...com.leasematic

PS: Thanks everyone here for the recommendations and support!!
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      06-25-2015, 02:48 PM   #286
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Hi guys / OneRib

Leasematic is finally available for Android on Google Play store!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...com.leasematic

PS: Thanks everyone here for the recommendations and support!!
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Will download today. It's perfect timing because I go to sign paperwork on my car next week.
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