The Turbos+EU5+LiftKit thread

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by JustAnothaM4

Are any race teams or customers using your product running that setup w/o PI on a road course / track? Any more details there?

Quite a few of our customers utilize their vehicles for track and/or road course use with our turbos. Unfortunately, there is no way for us to keep track of all the customers and what fueling setups they are currently running with our turbos. To be honest, we don't see any situation where you would ever need to run PI on a road coarse application since anything over 550whp-600whp on a road course S55 is not very usable and produces way too much heat to have repeatable reliability. In addition, E85 is not a common fuel used on road course vehicles due to the high volumes of fuel consumption over standard pump gas or other race fuels. Rest assured, you will have no fueling issues at all running EU5 injectors and Dorch lift kit with our turbos on a road coarse setup. Even though, you would not be anywhere near the limit of this fuel system for a road course application it would definitely be safer running this setup over your stock fuel system with or without PI.

[astris]

New, faster, stronger, longer…

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

Quite a few of our customers utilize their vehicles for track and/or road course use with our turbos. Unfortunately, there is no way for us to keep track of all the customers and what fueling setups they are currently running with our turbos. To be honest, we don't see any situation where you would ever need to run PI on a road coarse application since anything over 550whp-600whp on a road course S55 is not very usable and produces way too much heat to have repeatable reliability. In addition, E85 is not a common fuel used on road course vehicles due to the high volumes of fuel consumption over standard pump gas or other race fuels. Rest assured, you will have no fueling issues at all running EU5 injectors and Dorch lift kit with our turbos on a road coarse setup. Even though, you would not be anywhere near the limit of this fuel system for a road course application it would definitely be safer running this setup over your stock fuel system with or without PI.

For just road course use, do you feel the Dorch+EU5 is needed to get to a very reliable 550whp?

I agree that massive whp numbers are pointless for track use, as cooling that much power is almost impossible for a 30min session.

Sales@KRATOS

[Wanted_M]

Originally Posted by astris

New, faster, stronger, longer…

Lol, sounds like Viagra commercial
What is it?

[astris]

Originally Posted by Wanted_M

Lol, sounds like Viagra commercial
What is it?

haha, perfect.

Just got my Bend Package #3 (hardware, flex fuel hardware with filter, software, and tuning via Ecutek) today. The picture is of their new ethanol content analyzer custom made for Bend. Replaces the Zeitronix ECA2 they previously used.

[M2_MEDUSA]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

For just road course use, do you feel the Dorch+EU5 is needed to get to a very reliable 550whp?

I agree that massive whp numbers are pointless for track use, as cooling that much power is almost impossible for a 30min session.

No, Dont need it for 550. Stock is fine at that power. Its already preety safe. if youd like just run EU5 with no lift kit if your feeling the mod bug

[Phat55]

So running into some issues with my Dorsch+ EU5+ GC+ car

Car was running perfectly, Entered half mile event, and lots of pulls in mexico.
So run into the issue of the car going into limp(drivetrain error)Whats happens is if i load the car from lowish rpm in a high gear the drive train error kicks up.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6225...729b21443f5574

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6225...0b434508e30eb8

[G82 Jesse]

How necessary would you all say an upgraded LPFP is?

I'm currently running the Nostrum HPFP and swapping to EU5 injectors soon. My plan is to run full E85 (already do at ~670-700whp on nostrum stage 1 injectors) but occasionally I hear a "pffft pfft pfft pfft" up top and the needle bounces a bit. Could that be a fueling issue?

What should I be looking for in logs to determine if my LPFP isn't keeping up?

[G82 Jesse]

Also, no issues shown ON the HPFP target vs actual as well running E85. Rock solid ~2900-3000psi targets being hit this entire time

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by JesseH234

How necessary would you all say an upgraded LPFP is?

I'm currently running the Nostrum HPFP and swapping to EU5 injectors soon. My plan is to run full E85 (already do at ~670-700whp on nostrum stage 1 injectors) but occasionally I hear a "pffft pfft pfft pfft" up top and the needle bounces a bit. Could that be a fueling issue?

What should I be looking for in logs to determine if my LPFP isn't keeping up?

That stutter is a fuel shortage. Get the LPFP.

In BM3 you can go into dashboard config, pick the Other attributes, and pick LPFP Pressure. If this dips under 50PSI then you could use a LPFP. Also compare HPFP Target and Actual. When the LPFP goes low then the next thing is HPFP actual dipping under the target pressure.

[flipm3]

Originally Posted by JesseH234

How necessary would you all say an upgraded LPFP is?

I'm currently running the Nostrum HPFP and swapping to EU5 injectors soon. My plan is to run full E85 (already do at ~670-700whp on nostrum stage 1 injectors) but occasionally I hear a "pffft pfft pfft pfft" up top and the needle bounces a bit. Could that be a fueling issue?

What should I be looking for in logs to determine if my LPFP isn't keeping up?

With larger turbos and higher ethanol content, I am finding that it is becoming necessary, if not running any type of supplementary fuel injection (meth or port).

We spent quite a bit of time on the dyno yesterday working on a more "road course" focused tune for my car. Keeping torque low/flat in the midrange, nice linear top end to redline.

In my datalog, we found that HPFP starts to dip a 28psi in the midrange and LPFP at the top end. Based off your observations, I'd suspect the LPFP starting to run out of steam. Since I only need so much for the road course, we backed it off to just 26psi to keep everything stable, consistent, and safe.

I am currently running just EU5 injectors as my sole fuel system upgrade with pump E85. I plan to do the Dorch Lift Kit and PFS LPFP (when ready for release).

[G82 Jesse]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

That stutter is a fuel shortage. Get the LPFP.

In BM3 you can go into dashboard config, pick the Other attributes, and pick LPFP Pressure. If this dips under 50PSI then you could use a LPFP. Also compare HPFP Target and Actual. When the LPFP goes low then the next thing is HPFP actual dipping under the target pressure.

Thanks TopJimmy! Is there a general consensus on the 'best' LPFP to use when you're not aiming for any type of fueling past the limitations of the stock motor?

Some quick googling has presented me with the Spool Performance Stage 3 LPFP. Priced at $849, seems to be the ticket.

[heitzke]

Originally Posted by JesseH234

Thanks TopJimmy! Is there a general consensus on the 'best' LPFP to use when you're not aiming for any type of fueling past the limitations of the stock motor?

Some quick googling has presented me with the Spool Performance Stage 3 LPFP. Priced at $849, seems to be the ticket.

I'd also check out the offerings from Precision Raceworks - https://precisionraceworks.com/produ...39837599957185

No prior experience, but they've come recommended to me by a few different people - including Bend Calibration. I've emailed back and forth with them a few times and they've been very kind and helpful.

Whenever I get back on the build horse i'll probably go that route with their stage 3 brushless.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by heitzke

I'd also check out the offerings from Precision Raceworks - https://precisionraceworks.com/produ...39837599957185

No prior experience, but they've come recommended to me by a few different people - including Bend Calibration. I've emailed back and forth with them a few times and they've been very kind and helpful.

Whenever I get back on the build horse i'll probably go that route with their stage 3 brushless.

Originally Posted by JesseH234

Thanks TopJimmy! Is there a general consensus on the 'best' LPFP to use when you're not aiming for any type of fueling past the limitations of the stock motor?

Some quick googling has presented me with the Spool Performance Stage 3 LPFP. Priced at $849, seems to be the ticket.

I haven't made a decision yet on LPFP technology… The older Fuel-it design adds a piggyback Walbro to an OEM bucket pump and adds a second outlet, fuel line and fuel filter inlet. It's more plumbing but should flow higher than the new design because of the dual feed lines. The new LPFP design from PRW, Spool, Etc includes 2 pumps going onto a Y right above the bucket and only uses the standard single outlet. Science says the new design would need higher pressures in the single line to equal the double line flow at standard pressure.

The other side of the LPFP conundrum is so you regulate excess pressure with a fuel pressure regulator and return line (like fuel-it does), or do you use a Motiv Reflex+ to progressively add fuel PSI to the stock no-return setup?

F80Paul told me he likes 65-75PSI static pressure, so I'm using a return line and FPR, but capping off the boost-tap on the FPR. This way pressure stays stable and doesn't throw off PI or the HPFP feed.

[Wanted_M]

^^You can use Reflex aux output to control second pump or a Hobbs (old school way) to kick secondary pump around 13psi or so, set pressure reg. at 70-75psi (engine off/both pumps on). If psi target set >75psi, the DME will start to ramp down the OE pump as the pressure will rise higher than max target (around 85psi) when both are running. Don't use a 1:1 rising rate regulator just a plane old regulator.
Hope this helps.

[heitzke]

This is all interesting and i'm a little out of my depth here n this conversation as i'm still just getting into fueling basics. I'm getting ready to get in deeper, but on the Cobra since I need to convert to a full-return system for actual power.

My basic understanding of the PRW Stage 3 brushless LPFP is that it's totally plug n play and the DME controls it all just like the factory pump. I don't necessarily know what that means for static pressure or how that's regulated from the factory.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by heitzke

This is all interesting and i'm a little out of my depth here n this conversation as i'm still just getting into fueling basics. I'm getting ready to get in deeper, but on the Cobra since I need to convert to a full-return system for actual power.

My basic understanding of the PRW Stage 3 brushless LPFP is that it's totally plug n play and the DME controls it all just like the factory pump. I don't necessarily know what that means for static pressure or how that's regulated from the factory.

In the case of Stage 3 plug and play solutions you rely on the factory pump power circuit (EKP?) for regulation.

In the case of Stage 4 kits with a secondary pump we need a second power circuit. It's either triggered on/off by a Hobbs switch and the factory pump is used to regulate overall pressure, or we use a Motiv to progressively bring up pump#2.

[astris]

Originally Posted by heitzke

This is all interesting and i'm a little out of my depth here n this conversation as i'm still just getting into fueling basics. I'm getting ready to get in deeper, but on the Cobra since I need to convert to a full-return system for actual power.

My basic understanding of the PRW Stage 3 brushless LPFP is that it's totally plug n play and the DME controls it all just like the factory pump. I don't necessarily know what that means for static pressure or how that's regulated from the factory.

Oddly enough, I'm trying to figure this out right now with Bend leading the way. I'm running Bend's ultimate kit with the ID F750 filter. Looks like the plan for now will be the PR Stage 3 brushless, then add a regulator, lines and fittings. Like a custom PR Stage 3+ brushless I guess.

Might just do this for now until Bend eventually releases their own custom LPFP kit.

[heitzke]

Originally Posted by astris

Oddly enough, I'm trying to figure this out right now with Bend leading the way. I'm running Bend's ultimate kit with the ID F750 filter. Looks like the plan for now will be the PR Stage 3 brushless, then add a regulator, lines and fittings. Like a custom PR Stage 3+ brushless I guess.

Might just do this for now until Bend eventually releases their own custom LPFP kit.

Ahh that's really good to know. This is precisely where i've been confused on the LPFP side too. I just didn't know if it required additional lines, fpr, etc or somehow the stage 3 brushless was just like some sort of OEM+ fueling setup that didn't require anything else to just 'work'. I suppose that also makes sense that there's a limit to how much fuel can be crammed/handled through the existing factory lines.

I also have the F750 ultimate kit, so sounds like we're in a pretty similar boat.

[astris]

Originally Posted by heitzke

Ahh that's really good to know. This is precisely where i've been confused on the LPFP side too. I just didn't know if it required additional lines, fpr, etc or somehow the stage 3 brushless was just like some sort of OEM+ fueling setup that didn't require anything else to just 'work'. I suppose that also makes sense that there's a limit to how much fuel can be crammed/handled through the existing factory lines.

I also have the F750 ultimate kit, so sounds like we're in a pretty similar boat.

Also chatted with PR and their Stage 4 and 4.5 kits will be back in stock within the next two weeks. They come with lines (probably the wrong length), filter (not needed), and regulator.

Good new is they are willing to put together a custom package. Bad news is they'd need to know length of the lines and fittings needed, which I just don't know.

The PR regulator also mounts in the same place as then Bend 750 setup, so you need to hang the regulator off the transmission brace with a little bracket. Can use the one that comes with the PR kit.

In reality all you need is some PR LPFP kit, a regulator set to 500kPa gauge pressure (600kPa if read in Ecutek logs) and lines. So a Stage 4/4.5 custom setup or a Stage 3 brushless and use the beautiful Radium MPR (and a gauge if you want), and custom lines/fittings.

Fueling is all new to me too, so I'm just learning as I go with the help of others. If I accidentally sound smart, all credit to Bend.

[TopJimmy]

Can someone with our setup try the BM3 OTS 2H Stage 2 map with the direct injectors set to F10(M5). I'd like to confirm we can now use this as a base map instead of needing Custom.

I only have the Stage 2 map, not the 2H, from back when I was stock.

[G82 Jesse]

TopJimmy I'm doing exactly that (or close to it, at least), tomorrow morning. I'll report back with the results. Shop is finishing my EU5 injector install in the AM.

The plan right now is to take my custom flex fuel tune and just use the Bootmod3 drop-down menu to select F10(M5) injectors and see what happens lol.