02-02-2021, 06:31 PM | #2399 | |
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Our favorite designer Dukec has once again opened his mouth to talk about design, and again it sounds as if he's speaking out of his a**.
BMW design boss: ‘it’s not our goal to please everyone’ I also think you all will appreciate this member's response to the quotes from Dukec in another thread, he seems to feel the same way we do. Quote:
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02-02-2021, 06:40 PM | #2400 | |||
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02-02-2021, 06:50 PM | #2401 |
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Not sure how I missed this but that looks awesome. I'm definitely interested to see if and how they will bring any F1 technology into their AMG cars. It seems the next generation AMG GT will likely be influenced by the Project One as the clay models borrow some styling cues from the hypercar.
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02-02-2021, 06:53 PM | #2402 | ||||
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Take me back to the early 2000s. I've got a list of cars I'd like to buy brand new, each example twice to last me 50 years.
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02-02-2021, 08:26 PM | #2403 |
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02-02-2021, 09:09 PM | #2404 | |
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BMW on the other hand has done about everything bad in terms of not only marketing but also the way they have gone about conveying their message. Your post from Dukec is an extremely good example of this. He STILL believes what he is doing is right and in two years, we will see whether we are right or are the guys at BMW are so blind at this point they believe what they are doing is okay. Then of course we will go down the route of, "They are going to blame COVID" or "They are going to blame fans for not understanding". BMW has the same current issue has a lot of companies in the world these days. They (BMW) believes they know better than the buyers and there are a good portion of us that have openly said "We don't like this car" and it will only take a tank in sales to get them to understand. Sadly, it's BMW so when that time comes, they will make it so leasing is extremely viable to shore up the numbers they lost then shove in a bunch of Baby M cars in the mix to make it look like they sold way more than they actually have. Watch this, I can almost guarantee it will happen. There are enough well known BMW lovers on IG (or most social media actually) has been extremely vocal about their distaste of the G8x. BMW has completely lost their way. If they needed to make a video about a TRADITIONAL AUTOMATIC, they are beyond lost at this point. Unlike GM, whom when it comes to their sports cars, they are very dedicated in making them always track focused without giving too much to the bean counters. Even though I am NOT a American brand person, you can make a very good argument that all of the sports cars coming out of GM and Ford have been extremely good for their money (build quality aside of course). The new mid engine Corvette is the standout currently with some track focused stuff on the way. You can say certain things with Porsche isn't completely right. They are going down too hard on the electronic side for their cars other than the Cayman/Boxster but unlike BMW, Porsche didn't compromise the two things that matter most. Driving dynamics and their design history and language. Yes, part of it is EU's extremely hard environmental laws, which I have a thing against actually, Porsche by most standards haven't allowed it to comprise too much. I will say this again, my current F80 is going to be my last BMW. Until Dukec is gone as BMW M head, there is no chance in hell I will ever get back into another BMW M personally.
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02-02-2021, 09:21 PM | #2405 | |
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You're definitely right that Benz isn't lost when it comes F1 and tech, they are just I think getting a bit too greedy as they have some quality issues that really need to be addressed and fixed. The AMG team is definitely working hard, I'm just still not sure how well their loyal customers/enthusiasts will feel about 4-cylinders, its just a huge departure. Going from an 8 to 6 is a lot more tolerable, from 8 to 4 (even with all the tech) is a hard pill to swallow. A lot of reason to get the C63 was the engine. BMW is definitely the most lost of the brands, they've sold their soul. Audi isn't lost per say but lets be honest, other than the R8 and RS6, they aren't doing much worthy of attention, and putting the engine in front of the front axle will never help. Maybe EV's are Audi's chance to get ahead, with actual RWD based cars. It seems they will always be a third wheel to BMW and MB.
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02-02-2021, 09:43 PM | #2406 |
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I still hate the E60 5series and it has never grown on me. The E60 M5 is OK.
Bangle at least actually had originality and talent with his flame surfacing designs. He had some really cool designs like the Z4 that look better and more futuristic than cars out today. Ducec basically just slapped on some hideous grills copied Lexus tails, VW headlights and called it a day. Not to mention getting rid of BMW traditional side character line and Hofmeister kink. There is NO design language or any original concepts that all the great designers possess. |
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02-02-2021, 10:05 PM | #2407 | |
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Anybody that's worked in product knows the general trade off: * Corps give you lots of security, economies of scale, access to people, parts, and partners you otherwise would never have, but ... * Corps also dilute your product pipeline, prevent anything remotely risky, layer you down in bureaucracy, make it hard to hire good people, etc Given Porsche more/less bought & owns VAG versus the other way around, Porsche has been able to create this protected niche group that can siphon resources away from the mothership (emissions, parts, people, R&D €/$, etc), but also stay completely insulated from VAG bullshit. You can really see how this is true with Audi in BEVs: they've run into most of the same problems as VW with software, batteries, systems, etc - but Porsche has gone down a completely separate path in both systems and software; you'll see many VAG parts in porsches, but not many porsche innovations in VAG (unless they want them to be). In short, Porsche product people have the dream setup and their products reflect that ... but I have feeling with the current board fights and Diess challenging for more power that's about to end ... we'll see!
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Last edited by GrussGott; 02-03-2021 at 09:29 PM.. |
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02-03-2021, 02:32 AM | #2408 | |
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Every passenger car company in the Group is greedy and they more-or-less hate each other. Without naming the opposite party, I can tell you that Porsche earns a metric fuckton selling parts (production and aftersales) to another brand... And that manufacturer wanted to do stuff on their own, which would have saved them a lot of money while employing local businesses, but Porsche said NOPE, you must buy more of our parts or you don't get anything from us. It's a great system for a big company like Porsche that's got a lot of leverage, I tell you that, and is one of the main reasons why Porsche is pretty much on top of the tech advancement, quality & reliability at VAG.
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02-03-2021, 10:23 AM | #2410 | |
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Shame we'll never see any on this side of the pond but certainly looks promising, good on them! |
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02-03-2021, 10:27 AM | #2411 | |
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02-03-2021, 10:39 AM | #2412 |
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02-03-2021, 11:49 AM | #2413 |
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I don't like the rear of of the red one, reminds of those stupid GT cars BMW made. Not even sure what the name is for them as they are in between a sedan and a hatchback. Looks like the entire back end of that red one opens up whereas the blue is a traditional sedan with a trunk.
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02-03-2021, 12:17 PM | #2414 | |
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Good luck competing against AMG & Lewis with the target audience. Believe the Munich lads probably should have invested in motorsport instead of cocaine. If they stick with 6 (I doubt it), BMW's 2 cylinder "advantage" won't mean anything to the audience they're now targeting. Agreed on all next gens being hybrid. The G8X design over substance approach looks more like the hail mary. They're about to be walloped by AMG on hybrid tech and all associated marketing, but maybe they can preempt with beavers, M town passes, and hype rims. For me, the moral of the story on Cadillac is that they know their V audience is limited. They'll get a handful of converts from M and AMG with these Blackwings, maybe a few Panamera buyers. But as final ice V series models they still decided to give their customer base the very best possible https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-gas-v-series/ Looks aside, compare the performance substance of the Blackwings and press release to everything G8X.
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02-03-2021, 12:21 PM | #2415 |
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02-03-2021, 12:29 PM | #2416 |
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Would take the ATS Blackwing over the G8X. No hesitation.
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02-03-2021, 12:51 PM | #2417 |
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02-03-2021, 02:34 PM | #2418 | ||
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It can have as much torque as possible, I just don't see how a hybrid four-pot can be as exciting as a big gas V8. When the time comes, I'll attempt to care about performance hybrids and EVs; got many decades left for that. At the end of the day, it's all we're gonna have in the future so I want to ride the last bit of the ICE wave out as long as I can. Totally wouldn't mind an EV hatchback for driving round town, though. The CT5V does seem like a total bargain given the performance and price. Good on them. They just need to find some people to buy their product which has been an issue for V Cadillacs, hasn't it.
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02-03-2021, 02:54 PM | #2419 | |
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Borrowed ATS-V sales #'s from a Cadillac forum 2016 - 2018 ATS-V Total Sedan 2419 Total Coupe 1902 Total All 4321 16,057 F80 M3's sold in the U.S. for reference.
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02-03-2021, 03:47 PM | #2420 |
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BTW, thought I'd share a real technical transmission video from the former BMW M division that made real M cars
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