bootmod3 update - 201101 DME tamper code

[proTUNING Freaks]

Just wanted to let you guys know of a neat feature incorporated into bootmod3. As some of you may or may not be aware, many flash tunes have had an ongoing issue with the following code being thrown after flash tuning these newer DMEs:

201101 DME: Protection against tampering: Program or data manipulation detected

Some cars we had in our testing would never set this code while some others would. We now have the ability to remove this code while bm3 tuning is on the car.

Note that a DME software update done at the dealership will have this code return though and you might still get flagged for warranty so take that into account.

[Celestion]

Pretty cool indeed. So other than physically inspecting the ECU, is there is no way to tell if the car has been tuned (assuming you've flashed back to the stock tune)?

[M3SSY]

Originally Posted by Celestion

Pretty cool indeed. So other than physically inspecting the ECU, is there is no way to tell if the car has been tuned (assuming you've flashed back to the stock tune)?

flash count might give it away?

[chewbakam4]

Friends of mine have flash tunes with tamper code on from other flash tuners. I am sure you'll be hearing from them pronto! This is great work!

[mrgicm]

But ecu flash count can give it away I think.

[proTUNING Freaks]

There are many ways to detect modifications on these cars starting with the hardware on the car that's also been tampered with. There's really no way to to be invisible with the modifications or tuning on these cars these days, period.

In terms of flash counters, they go up for any coding or flashing on the car and dealer tools increment them too. Flash counters aren't really a give away unless incredibly high. We simply like to not have to see this code while the tune is on the car but keep in mind that this isn't a way to hide the tune from the dealer or BMW and any tune just as any hardware modification are potential warranty void scenarios.

[1FastS4]

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

Friends of mine have flash tunes with tamper code on from other flash tuners. I am sure you'll be hearing from them pronto! This is great work!

Seems kinda messed up to warn that it's a problem but then not share anything more than that.

We already know that none of the brands advertising here on the forums has this issue (bootmod3, HEX / VF), so is there a particular tuner or brand that you'd suggest people absolutely stay away from?

[chewbakam4]

This guy has it happen with the Hex tune? http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=10

[Irishace]

Great work as usual Dzenno!

[Inprogress]

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

This guy has it happen with the Hex tune? http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=10

I just read that too, I wonder if his HEX tune is from VF...

[Pak317]

Can bootmod clear the code on my Hex tune If i have the tamper code?

[VF-Engineering]

Originally Posted by 1FastS4

Seems kinda messed up to warn that it's a problem but then not share anything more than that.

We already know that none of the brands advertising here on the forums has this issue (bootmod3, HEX / VF), so is there a particular tuner or brand that you'd suggest people absolutely stay away from?

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

This guy has it happen with the Hex tune? http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=10

Originally Posted by Inprogress

I just read that too, I wonder if his HEX tune is from VF...

Yes, this customers car did have our HEX Tuning Stage TWO ECU and TCU Software.

As we have discussed many times prior, HEX Tuning software does not result in a 201101 DME "tamper code".

This has been the case since we initially released our software for the F8X S55 M3/M4 back in May of 2015, and is still the case today.


What happened in this particular situation will happen with ANY brand of flash tune when the vehicle is flashed back to stock by the dealership. This is why we have always advised our customers to decline software updates or re-flashes at the dealership level.

The ability to switch maps between stock and tuned maps is purely a convenience feature and has never been intended to hide the software from BMW's engineers. Our customers are educated on this before purchasing our software, and ALL flashed ECU's, regardless of tuner, run the risk of triggering the 201101 tamper code when flashed at the dealership.

For more information, or to ask questions regarding to HEX Tuning, please do so in one of our threads, or contact us directly so we don't have to interrupt another brands discussion.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

...
Note that a DME software update done at the dealership will have this code return though and you might still get flagged for warranty so take that into account.

What about these other codes, are they relevant and does BM3 delete them?

0x107801	Tuningschutz: Luftmasse zu hoch (Tuning protection: Air mass too high)
0x201101	DME, tamper protection: program or data manipulation detected
0x1E5301	Tamper protection: Motor power too high

Regarding your comment above, can you elaborate more on the scenario ? So even if the owner who has BM3 flashes back to BMW stock firmware (as the dealer would), you are saying that code will re-appear again ? read the note from BMW http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=43

So this code is either:
A) permanently stored somewhere that survives flashes (not likely), or
B) the action that unlocked the DME is always detected by BMW's firmware and triggers that fault? but how since that person reflashed the original BMW firmware... and there is no "program or data manipulation detected"

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

What about these other codes, are they relevant and does BM3 delete them?

0x107801	Tuningschutz: Luftmasse zu hoch (Tuning protection: Air mass too high)
0x201101	DME, tamper protection: program or data manipulation detected
0x1E5301	Tamper protection: Motor power too high

Regarding your comment above, can you elaborate more on the scenario ? So even if the owner who has BM3 flashes back to BMW stock firmware (as the dealer would), you are saying that code will re-appear again ? read the note from BMW http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=43

So this code is either:
A) permanently stored somewhere that survives flashes (not likely), or
B) the action that unlocked the DME is always detected by BMW's firmware and triggers that fault? but how since that person reflashed the original BMW firmware... and there is no "program or data manipulation detected"

Hope this answers part of your question, but I believe the reason the tamper code reappears if the dealership updates your DME is due to the fact that the bootloader remains in its modified state. The gets detected once the dealership updates your DME with a stock flash and hence throws the tamper code. Now what PTF does in their flash to make sure that code isn't thrown I'm not sure.

[aboulfad]

Well if it's that simple, then the owner should also flash btld to stock, no? I think hakcar eluded to that in http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1377829, post #31. Can BM3 flash btld or just swfl?

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Well if it's that simple, then the owner should also flash btld to stock, no? I think hakcar eluded to that in http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1377829, post #31. Can BM3 flash btld or just swfl?

Well if an owner flashes his bootloader back to stock he'd then be stuck with a locked DME again. He'd need to pull the DME out again to unlock it. So assuming he wants to keep his car tuned, flashing your bootloader back to stock doesn't make any sense to me.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

Well if an owner flashes his bootloader back to stock he'd then be stuck with a locked DME again. He'd need to pull the DME out again to unlock it. So assuming he wants to keep his car tuned, flashing your bootloader back to stock doesn't make any sense to me.

Well, since 90% of this forum has become centered on warranty fraud (ie. having powertrain failures covered by BMW despite having had hardware upgrades, a piggyback, and/or a modified DME), I'll assume knowing how to revert to a stock, locked DME is highly relevant for many people on here.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

Well, since 90% of this forum has become centered on warranty fraud (ie. having powertrain failures covered by BMW despite having had hardware upgrades, a piggyback, and/or a modified DME), I'll assume knowing how to revert to a stock, locked DME is highly relevant for many people on here.

Unfortunately, there is some truth to your statement.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

Well if an owner flashes his bootloader back to stock he'd then be stuck with a locked DME again. He'd need to pull the DME out again to unlock it. So assuming he wants to keep his car tuned, flashing your bootloader back to stock doesn't make any sense to me.

مرحبا DISCLAIMER: I am interested in learning stuff for the fun of learning, my car isn't and will never be tuned

Stupid of me I forgot that small gotcha of our DME, you are absolutely right... let's bring it back to the comment made in first post, I am trying to understand the tech details of this statement: "Note that a DME software update done at the dealership will have this code return though and you might still get flagged for warranty so take that into account."

Hypothetical scenario, So a BM3 tuned car comes in to dealer with no tamper codes, owner says don't update my car, dealer screws up and updates Istep, now depending on the Istep, there could be update to any of the following for DME: BTLD, SWFL, CAFD.

So how could that tamper code re-appear again? Not knowing any details of this tamper code delete, and knowing what a bootloader does in general, and assuming dealer Istep updates only swfl (as BTLD is rarely updated):

1- Then with above scenario, post dealer Istep update you have an unlocked/modified BTLD, a stock DME swfl without BM3 tamper code delete, which next time it runs will detect the program manipulation and throws that code. Correct?

2- let's go through the steps, car is plugged in to ISTA/P, ignition is ON, basic vehicle test done, FASTA data retrieved and sent to mothership (no tamper code). Update is completed which includes erasing all DTCs (automatic step) in the ISTA/P post flashing steps.

Now here's the interesting point, when does the DME run its software and check stuff, with ignition ON, or engine ON, and more specifically when does that tamper code routine run?

This could be all conjecture, but maybe just maybe, and if the dealer makes that mistake and updates Istep against customer wish, that the tamper code is thrown on the next engine start, which is when the tech moves the car to the delivery area and hence that code was not logged with mothership and car not flagged.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

Well, since 90% of this forum has become centered on warranty fraud (ie. having powertrain failures covered by BMW despite having had hardware upgrades, a piggyback, and/or a modified DME), I'll assume knowing how to revert to a stock, locked DME is highly relevant for many people on here.

Hi, if you want to learn how to flash in general, then head over to my DIY: F8x Software Update Tips thread and you are welcome to ask questions there.

Note: I am not advocating anything, I just wanted to understand in what scenarios and specific conditions that a BM3 tuned car brought in for service can have the car flagged. I just want to break down the tech details for my own learning, nothing to do with warranty fraud...

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Hi, if you want to learn how to flash in general, then head over to my DIY: F8x Software Update Tips thread and you are welcome to ask questions there.

Note: I am not advocating anything, I just wanted to understand in what scenarios and specific conditions that a BM3 tuned car brought in for service can have the car flagged. I just want to break down the tech details for my own learning, nothing to do with warranty fraud...

Sorry, should have clarified. That post wasn't directed at you and the other people on here who seem to understand the implications of modifying our cars. We know you like to dig into the 1's and 0's . Your contributions on the coding/flashing side are super helpful.

If you read many of the posts on here around BM3, JB4, VF, or the other available tunes, it usually comes back to "can the dealer tell I'm tuned?", or "how do I get warranty work if I'm tuned?". Anyway, it's pretty typical on all car platforms with big aftermarket support, but it's still painful to read.

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

Unfortunately, there is some truth to your statement.

Where did I lie? The 90%? That's exaggerated obviously, but you get my point.

[aboulfad]

"can the dealer tell I'm tuned?" etc... is what I want to break into the 1 and 0's

maybe i just have too much time but the above statement made by bm3 made me ponder how would it really happen? I guess its a general warning, but the devil is in the details as they say.