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      12-23-2016, 02:05 PM   #1
Captain Unknown GT4
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M4 GTS Sport Auto supertest in English

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I am not sure if you GTS owner did read higly rated German sport auto supertest of M4 GTS. They been doing this propper testing on Nurburgring for 17 years now. Anyway, if not read, plese do as they very much go in to small deitails like how importent tire pressure is, and that car only provide 2kg front and 4kg rear downforce @200km/h if car is driven in street mode aero. Also that GTS is a car that need you to adapt, its not just to jump in a do fast laps instant. (Google translate)

Christians verdic normaly end the article, but I put his verdict top on this thread.

All the best and you now have a god christmas!
Regards Captain Unknown


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MY OPINION


With the M4 GTS, BMW has not only achieved a true Wow effect from an optical viewpoint. From a dynamic perspective, too, the special model sets the bar in the mid-range segment extremely high. With its cross-dynamics the M4 GTS, however, pushes into completely different areas. The wing BMW also does not have to hide in front of well-proven sports cars from the beating of an Audi R8 V10 Plus or Porsche 911 GT3. The only criticism, despite the outstanding driving performance is not to discourage: the weight of 1601 kilos. One has to imagine, in which regions of the GTS would have pushed forward, had it again been much easier.

TOTAL ASSESSMENT

Of 100 achievable points


1. 100 Porsche 918 Spyder

7. 87 Porsche 911 GT3

12. 83 Porsche 911 Carrera S

19. 78 BMW M4 GTS

25. 76 Nissan GT-R

26. 75 Corvette ZR1 (2009)

37. 69 Alpina B3 GT3

44. 66 Mercedes C 63 AMG Bl. Series

52. 63 BMW M3 GTS E92

60. 60 BMW M4 Coupé


////////////////////////////


SUPERTEST BMW M4 GTS

HUNTING

A mid-class coupé that can be used to attack real Porsche 911 GT3 and Nissan GT-R sports cars? Is not it? With the 500 bhp strong M4 GTS, BMW has succeeded in a grandiose way.

Plagiarisms often excite the minds in the automobile industry - in the case of the current supertest, a plagiarism would even be highly desirable, at least as far as the number sequence "seven, two, eight" is concerned. In 7.28 minutes, BMW test and development driver Jörg Weidinger rushed the BMW M4 GTS at the end of September 2015 over the Nordschleife. Since then, the fan community has been celebrating the new Über-BMW. It is time to check the potential of the special model, limited to 700 copies, in the Supertest.

Visually missing the new wing hero from Garching really only the starting numbers and sponsor stickers, then the illusion of the racing car with road admissions would be perfect. Crappy, clack, pull the lever twice in the driver's foot space, and the bonnet bounces rattling. Even the rattling when opening reveals: This is not an ordinary hood. Compared to the 11.3 kilo heavy-duty M4 series of aluminum, the GTS's CFK component saves another three kilos with a weight of 8.2 kilos. One-way down again and then casual? This should be avoided with the GTS hood - because of the thin wall thickness, the CFRP hood immediately after too much pressure.

Not only the bonnet is made of the carbon-fiber reinforced plastic. The front splitter, the roof, the tailgate and the rear wing as well as the rear diffuser are made of the light composite material. The new exhaust system also saves a further six kilos with a titanium rear silencer.

"Lightweight construction in the hiding place", BMW calls the instrument panel "Tragrohr" and the one-piece articulated shaft, which is to be optimized again in comparison to the version in the previous M3 / M4 generations. Both are also made of CFK.

Grandios, despite 1601 kilograms
And the detailed work in terms of weight reduction continues in the interior as well. Two M-specific Recaro sports seats with carbon shells save around 24 kilos compared to the conventional M4 sports seats. In addition, the back seat system is not applicable in the GTS.

Instead, the view here is a new panel of GRP material and a luggage compartment partition in carbon sandwich construction. By eliminating the seats in the rear, the weight is again reduced by eight kilos. In addition, there is a modified center console, which saves two kilos compared to the M4 serial component. Fast Rennsportflair is the result of the new door linings, whose material from renewable raw materials only insiders at first sight with the interior equipment of the BMW eco-mobile i3. More importantly: the new door panels with door pull loops save the usual handles save six kilos.

"Intelligent lightweight construction, consistently implemented," promises BMW in the press kit. Sounds good, but there is already a bit of disappointment, as the M4 GTS with the experts of "Müller tests" on the wheel load scale rolls. In addition to the power measurement and wheel alignment, the weight of all super-test vehicles is also determined. The hardcore M4 weighs 1601 kilograms with a full 60-liter tank and is only 14 kilograms lighter than the "normal" M4 (Supertest 7/2014).

BMW figures the weight reduction to 60 kilos. On the other hand, however, there is an increase in the weight of the GTS by new components (water injection, aerodynamic parts, larger dimensioned wheel-tire combination, suspension parts) of 30 kilos. In fact, the weight reduction compared to an M4 Coupé with DKG 30 kilos. The Supertest GTS is only 14 kilos lighter, with the optionally installed Clubport package (overbrakes, six-point belts, fire extinguishers).

On the subject of weight, the M4 GTS also suffers from its relatively heavy quad-base. If the M engineers had been able to start on a white sheet of paper, the new over-BMW would certainly have become much easier. As with other manufacturers, however, the BMW Sportdependance also has to make the best of what it is expected from series production.

A look at the test archive shows, however, that the previous models of the M4 GTS have saved even more weight against their respective base. The BMW M3 GTS of the E92 series weighed with 1546 kilos just under 100 kilos less than the E92 M3 Coupé with DKG (1640 kg). The sacred BMW E46 M3 CSL with a full tank weighs 1421 kilos, which corresponds to a weight saving of almost 150 kilos (M3 E46 with SMG: 1570 kg). The diet program was significantly more moderate compared to the predecessors of the M4 GTS. Here we would have wished for more.

500 hp with water injection
On the way to the fastest production BMW ever, it must then just the combination of chassis and modified biturbo engine S55B30 direct. Start button

The three-wheel-mounted six-cylinder engine is even brighter than the 431 horsepower M4 output base. The GTS unit carries a new water injection and has a rated output of 500 hp, which is reached at 6250 rpm (M4: 431 hp at 5500 rpm). My favorite kit in the manual: "When the engine is cold, the exhaust system has a light metallic finish due to the system." Oh yes, even if the M-Suction-engine helmets remain unmatched, the GTS sounds much better than the M4 off the rack.

During the warm-up phase, we briefly look at the water injection technology. Three water injectors are installed in the air collectors of the in-line cylinder, through which water is injected as a fine spray mist and which supply two cylinders in each case. During evaporation of the water, the combustion air is additionally cooled.

Thanks to the cooler combustion air, the engine control can be optimized and a torque increase can be achieved. The system is fed with distilled water in the luggage compartment via a five-liter water tank. After the ignition is switched off, the water from the system is pumped back into the water tank. GTS drivers should therefore not be surprised by humming noise from the trunk after switching off the engine.

Press the DKG selector lever to the right. Unlike the normal M4, the GTS is delivered exclusively with seven-speed dual clutch transmissions. To the left of the selector lever the hand moves to two additional keys. "Comfort", "Sport", "Sport +" - in addition to the characteristic of the servo steering, the throttle pedal curve can also be varied. In the "Sport +" mode, the three-bit biturbo is as scraped, almost poisonous, as if it were stifling any discussion about the "Turboloch". On the race track, especially on the Nordschleife, the middle route is recommended and thus the somewhat more moderate characteristic of the sports mode.

The GTS unit acts similar to the normal M engine with a suction motor-like power deployment over a wide speed band. The maximum speed remains unchanged at 7500 tours. At the same time, the GTS-Dreiliter is not only subjectively more dynamic and more powerful, but also better in terms of penetration and sprinting. With a perfectly functioning launch control function, the GTS sprints without any significant slippage in 3.9 seconds to 100. After 12.3 seconds the 200 km / h brand history (serial M4: 0-100 km / h in 4.2 s, 0-200 km / h in 13.7 s). The GTS retards with a standard carbon-ceramic brake system, which has been slightly modified in comparison to the M4 at the rear axle. At the front axle the brake ventilation was optimized at the GTS. From 100 km / h, the Hardcore M4 stands at 34.0 meters - only 30 centimeters earlier than the normal M4 with optional carbon-ceramic brake system and Michelin-Pilot Super Sport tires (Supertest 7/2014). Against the background of the M4 GTS's new Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tire on larger wheels (front axle: 265/35 R 19 to 9.5 inch, rear axle: 285/30 R 20 to 10.5- Inch) than the normal M4 (255/35 R 19 to 9.0 inches, 275/35 R 19 to 10.0 inches), one would certainly have expected a little more in the delay. Much more important, especially for the race track visit, however, is the successful ABS vote on the new Cup. With all the tuning versions of the M4, which were simply equipped with semislicks, but continued to carry the standard ABS, there were problems with the ABS control at the limit. And with the M4 GTS? Helmet on, out on the small course of Hockenheim. Stop, at the GTS, a little Feintuning is required before visiting the border area. Largely grown persons should first install the shawl seat slightly without a height adjustment or simply remove the seat cushion. After that, you are sitting on the naked seat, not only puristically, but almost as deep as the DTM drivers in their silhouettes M4. With quite as many flips and wings as the current M4, the GTS does not appear, but also the aerodynamics issue plays an important role.

Aero recalls M3 Sport Evo
Similar to the legendary BMW E30 M3 Sport Evolution (1989-1990), the M4 GTS also features an adjustable front splitter and an adjustable tailgate. In public road traffic the front splitter is permissible only in a fully inserted position. Likewise, the tail wing must be driven in the shallowest of the three settings.

For the trip to the race track, BMW recommends adjusting the maximum retracted position on the front splitter. The farther the front splitter is pulled forward, the steeper should be the three-adjustable tail wing. Both for the fast round in Hockenheim and on the north loop, the maximum possible position of the front splitter and the rear wing was chosen. In the case of Porsche GT models, by the way, partly,

Without the required inserts) on the race track, which is partly not permitted on the road (Cayman GT4). A grauzone, which is allowed on the racetrack. Therefore, the M4 GTS with the maximum possible aerodynamics in the super test is the start.

Aerobalance is thus decisively changing. In the so-called "road set-up" (entrained splitter, flat tail wing), the GTS has at 200 km / h two kilos of output on the front axle and four kilos of output on the rear axle. With the maximum possible Aero ("race track set-up"), twelve kilos of output at the front axle and 40 kilo of output at the rear axle are produced at 200 km / h. As for aerodynamics, BMW also makes recommendations for the adjustment of the new M4 GTS three-way undercarriage. The factory setting has been adapted for use on the road as well as on the north loop. For flat racing courses like for example the small course in Hockenheim, there is a "base recommendation race track". Accordingly, the set-up has been adapted in terms of height and damping settings (one rebound stage, two pressure stages) (see Technical Spotlight p. 19). Now, however, off into the border area. The slightly better ABS vote than the series M4 had already been discussed. The typical Hockenheim ground shafts also work well when braking. After the first move, you immediately notice that the developers and test drivers have made countless rounds on the Nordschleife, but also on routes like the Kleine Kurs.

The chassis tuning has been superbly done, and you can feel immediately how much detail work has been invested here. Compared to the series M4, the GTS is even more precise. On load changes it reacts hardly perceptibly and absolutely good-naturedly.

In the first rounds on the Small Course, one always asks about the reason why one did not go to the gas earlier. Compared to the "normal" M4, the traction of the GTS under load is again significantly better. The electronically controlled lamellae barrier was adapted to the increased performance. M-Typically also the GTS under load easily with the stern. The performance overruns are announced in time and not by accident with light-lubricating rear axles.

Electromechanical servo control has been revised and re-tuned for the GTS. In the "Sport" (taut) and "Sport +" (even tighter) modes, it scores with a strong hold. The feedback about the center position is precise, and the steering feeling in the border area is authentic.

The fastest series BMW ever surprised by the small course and placed in the Supertest rank list of Hockenheim between proven sports cars of the caliber of an Audi R8 V10 Plus (1.09.4 min), Porsche 911 GT3 (1.09.6 min) and Nissan GT-R (1.10.0 min). With a lap time of 1.09.6 minutes, the GTS is more than three seconds faster than the normal M4 in the Supertest (1.12.8 min). Hat off, BMW M!

And on the north loop? Is the round-point plagiarism mentioned in the beginning possible in 7.28 minutes? No, because behind the wheel is not today test driver Jörg Weidinger, who knows the GTS not only of two intimate development years on the north loop, but also several times national and international Bergrennmeister. No, today is rather, the question to clarify how an ambitious amateur with the M4 GTS on the ring klarkommt.

Reinset, full throttle and immediately a fast lap time? No, the GTS calls for a slightly more time to settle on the northern loop than other athletes. Especially the correct air pressure selection and the conditioning of the cups play an important role. The tire developers have also done a good job, as the GTS is to provide sufficient safety reserves both in the dry on a fast lap and then on the way home with wet amateur drivers.

This has succeeded. This compromise also reduces the working window in case of dryness. The GTS is not an extremist like the M3 CSL, which with its uncompromising cup rims could be mastered almost exclusively by professionals in the border area and with its tire profile it went home in the 60 km / h snail speed. On the north loop, the GTS-Pneus have to be moderately "moderate". The tire should then "heat up" briefly in the stand. Then the air pressure must be lowered. If the tire temperature on the lap rises to 100 degrees Celsius, the good grip level and the excellent traction are reduced.

Thanks to aerodynamics and downforce, many high-speed sections (peak before the Swedish cross, sinking foxes, quick Linkknick kettles) can be passed through with full load without problems. On jumpers the GTS lifts off easily, but then lands

Controllable and stable. In slow to medium speed, the stern is always easy on the north loop under load. In return, however, the front axle is relieved and the lower steering is largely a foreign word. The slightly pushing rear requires however the mentioned acclimatization time. Once the trust is there, it will be fast. Damned fast.

Even if the GTS in the Supertest does not reach the factory at extreme outside temperatures of 30 degrees with 7.37 minutes, it is phenomenal. Lexus LFA, Ferrari 458 Italia, Corvette ZR1 or Porsche Cayman GT4 - the list of heroes the GTS has left behind on the ring is surprising and long. That deserves the utmost respect! ◾


////////////////////////////


TECHNOLOGY SPOTLIGHT


The GTS carries a newly developed helical gear. In addition to the vehicle height, the shock absorbers (one rebound stage, two pressure stages) can be adjusted as required. The factory setting (front axle: rebound 6 clicks open, compression stage Lowspeed 3 clicks open, pressure level highspeed 6 clicks open, rear axle: rebound 7 clicks open, pressure level Lowspeed 2 clicks open, pressure level highspeed 7 clicks open) is approved for road traffic But also as a "Nordschleife" vote. On the small course of Hockenheim the basic recommendation for the race track was driven. (Front axle: rebound 4 clicks open, compression stage Lowspeed 2 clicks open, compression stage highspeed 6 clicks open, rear axle: rebound 4 clicks. This is the first time the car has been lowered (minus 15 mm front axle minus 12 mm rear axle) and another damping setting Open, pressure stage Lowspeed 1 click open, pressure stage high speed 9 clicks open).


///////////////////////////////////////

HOCKENHEIMRING SMALL COURSE

Measurement conditions: air temperature 16 ° Celsius, asphalt temperature 19 ° Celsius, air pressure atmosphere 1019 mbar, air pressure tire (front / rear) 2.3 / 2.1 bar (warm)

14 of maximum 20 points
The peak of the Michelin-Pilot Sport Cup-2 tire also wants to be used on the small course of Hockenheim. At the latest in the second round, at the latest in the third fast round the round time must be. The tiregrip then tapers off slightly and remains constant at this level. The racetrack adjustment of the threaded landing gear fits perfectly to the layout layout of the narrow sportauto reference range. The GTS steers precisely, is almost immune to load changes, and impresses with even better traction when accelerating out than the basic M4. M-Typically, however, the wing M4 also presses very lightly with the rear (a large driving pass). On the brake, the GTS convinces, even in the wavy braking zones of Hockenheim, with a well-done ABS tuning. As in the case of the downhill braking points on the north loop, the 1601 kilograms can also be felt when braking into the narrow corners of the small course.


OTHER MEASUREMENTS OF DRIVING DYNAMICS AND WIND CHANNEL

36-METER SLALOM
138 km / h

You will not get rid of the feeling that the electronic helpers can not be completely deactivated and in the background always decently decent. In the case of a quiet driving mode and a small steering angle, the rear axle begins to smear easily in the limit area and then catches without steering corrections. Only when hard transfer the grip then really breaks off, and the use of the driver is in demand.


CROSS CIRCULATION
1.40 g

As expected, the BMW M4 GTS (max. 1.4 g) surpasses its M4 base and its E92-GTS predecessor (both 1.3 g) also in terms of transverse acceleration. This is not only the Michelin Cup Sport Cup 2 (Series M4: Michelin Pilot Supersport), but also the very good chassis adjustment of the newly developed three-way coilover.


EXT
159 km / h

Similar to the 36-meter slalom, the GTS pushes easily with the rear in the evasion test at the limit, without really breaking out. You have to get used to the driving behavior and needs a few attempts. Intuitively, one is too early to counteract and thus brings more unrest into the game. However, the speeds achieved are quite respectable for a 1.6-ton vehicle weight.


WIND CHANNEL

Vehicle face area (A): 2.25 m2
Air drag coefficient (cW): 0.37
Air resistance index (cW x A): 0,84

The newly developed aerodynamics also play a significant role at GTS. While the basic M4 has a buoyancy on both axles at 200 km / h, the GTS generates output on both axles (in the road as well as in the race track setup). The emphasis was on maximum aerodynamics.

Output front axle at 200 km / h 12 kg
Output rear axle at 200 km / h 40 kg


FITTINGS / BURNS
17.3 sec

Acceleration 0-200 km / h: 12.3 s
Brakes 200 -0 km / h: 5.0 s
The total time = addition of both measured values

Thanks to the perfectly functioning Launch Control, the M4 GTS accelerates smoothly to 200 km / h. BMW's start-up has not always worked as well as now. Also on the brake, the GTS sets a good performance and places itself in the front competition environment.

///////////////////////////////////

NÜRBURGRING NORDSCHLEIFE

Measurement conditions: air temperature 30 ° Celsius, asphalt temperature 34 ° Celsius, atmospheric pressure 1019 mbar, air pressure tire (front / rear) 2.3 / 2.1 bar (warm)

SECTOR TIMES

Length of the track 20.6 km

SECTOR 1 1.26.8 min
Start line T13 to the bridge exit Aremberg, 3850 m
SECTOR 2 1.44.5 min
Bridge exit Aremberg to Item 122 Exit Ex-Mühle, 4235 m
SECTOR 3 1.45.6 min
Item 122 Exit ex-mill until sign Hedwigshöhe exit Hohe Acht, 4825 m
SECTOR 4 1.55.7 min
Shield Hedwigshöhe exit High Eight to metal bridge output gallows head, 4846 m
SECTOR 5 0.44.5 min
Metal bridge output gallows head to initial target curve old north loop, 2844 m

15 of maximum 20 points
I can still remember well the 24th September 2015. At that time I ceded our round-the-clock window on the Nordschleife to BMW. At outside temperatures of 13 degrees, BMW test driver Jörg Weidinger then burned the magnificent record time of 7.28 min into the asphalt. Respect, Jörg, great achievement! At the Supertest round in 7.37 min, the conditions at 30 degrees were anything but ideal. The thermal load was noted to the biturbo, although the water injection gave it all. After two round rounds, the five-tank water tank was almost empty at these temperatures.

Text Christian Gebhardt · Photos Hans-Dieter Seufert

Last edited by Captain Unknown GT4; 05-09-2017 at 02:13 PM..
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      12-24-2016, 12:34 AM   #2
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Well, look at that, the Z06 got 98 points in SportAuto, the magazine you said knows what they are doing.

I don't think anyone thinks the GTS is a bad car, it's just the way you are defending it anytime it got a bad track time or negative review. Look at the way you talked about the Z06, imagine if a Vette fanboy comes in and basically telling everyone they are stupid if they don't like the Z06, I mean, why would anyone not like the Z06? It's practically the quickest the car around any track bar a few super cars (and doesn't need any aero tinkering). Heat soak issue? Do you have any evidence that it's bad development done by GM? Or maybe just a handful of outliers?

See how annoying it would be to some people? But with that said, I am still impressed with the effort you put in in defending the GTS, you do try to come up with details and wrote long posts, and I meant it as a compliment.

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      12-24-2016, 03:57 AM   #3
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Thanks! That my whole intention, as most people did not understand GTS is not a turn key car. But to me its more to enlighten than to defend on GTS. I drive Porsche as Well and got a 991 GT3 gen 2 coming as well. What ever people think I am not only in to GTS, but its very clear that many car mag guys have not feel the real racecar grippy GTS when they drove the car in high street setting and also street aero setting wich give hardly no aero. If you drive GTS like that on a GP track it Will not drive Well! (Compared to lowdown track setting Max track aero on)

It Will not go Well out of the box in all car mag guys hands. Its very much more depending on how its set up in a lap than most other cars.

As I Said I was close to buy that Z06. But did not, as friends had it and it Always get in to limp mode after a few laps on track. This is a fact, and I even try later on to get answer from the importer of these cars if and when they Will solve that issue. It went almost a year and I got no feedback. Evenually these days It may be solved, by bigger cooling from factory. I really dont know as I lose interesst back the.

I even told My vette salesman I only use My cars on track, and also drive there and home. He then told me at the time I should not buy the Z06 as several of their sold cars at the time hade this limp mode heat issue.

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      12-24-2016, 04:41 AM   #4
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In the same way I reach out and try to enlighten when people abuse and destroyed their tire on GTS. To destroyed a set of tire like this, Well Its not the cars fault, not the tires fault. Its the drivers fault.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d+on+track+GTS

In the same way when Clarkson crap on the GTS, its more his own fault (than the car) that he could not get the GTS to drive well. If he know its not the average turn key car, and read the manual like sport auto did, the outcome might been different.

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      12-26-2016, 09:54 AM   #5
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I find it interesting that sport auto was the only magazine to setup the car properly (I presume given the results). Why wouldn't BMW do it - I guess it might be that they just send some random bros to watch over the car who have no idea how to set it up.

Even porsche seem to make sure their cars at least are aligned before they give the keys.

The results being identical to the 991 GT3 are impressive given all the variables held as constant as possible. It was much faster than the GT4, which I've seen other magazines get identical results to....so one has to wonder what state the GTS is in when random journalists turn on the ignition.

Maybe the takeaway is to ask why BMW didn't deliver the car ready to drive balls out from the get go. Seems like cheap insurance...
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      12-26-2016, 02:38 PM   #6
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Its pretty clear many do not care or got the know how to set GTS up right prior to test, We cant blame them as most are to keen to get the foto session right or are more keen to simultanius drag start 20 car on same time to get a cool film.

Its only Ferrari who send their own guys to oversee sport auto test, like now on 488 test Ferrari got enginer and mecanics etc to set tire pressure etc. on car then sport auto drive. No other brand to it like that on sport auto test anyway.

Still I dont care that resultat differ, but I feel its importent to enlighten the few that dont get this.

Sport auto tester know how, also other euro mag test do very Well. Auto bild and auto zeitung got damn fast Times With GTS.

Bmw M dont care other than on press launch at portiomao, all cars was set right for GP track and all god reviw came out. After that all cars was sold anyway hence BMW dont care to overlook test like Ferrari do.

But then again its plenty who dont know what they are doing.
Motortrend for instace drove GTS on high street setting in figure 8 lap(here is prof) and thats wrong. Also the got wrong tire pressure on racetrack. Rear should not be higher than front pressure in a front engin car. Sport auto know exakt right tire pressure and it is 2.3 bar front and 2.1 bar rear(hot)

Also see how MT say about GTS on launch, that its only spinning. Well that due to they dont launch GTS on hot tires, sport auto do that, hence totaly different experience in the launch.


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      12-26-2016, 03:10 PM   #7
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Here is my car in street setting(high), motor trend drove like this high in figure 8 lap. No god. Still on track they say they drove track setting so all god. Aero it say track but dont tell if Max aero or not. Sport auto do tell they drove Max aero.






I think this picture is rather god to show a lowdown track set GTS.
This is the only way to drive a GP track.

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      12-29-2016, 12:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jml View Post
I find it interesting that sport auto was the only magazine to setup the car properly (I presume given the results). Why wouldn't BMW do it - I guess it might be that they just send some random bros to watch over the car who have no idea how to set it up.

Even porsche seem to make sure their cars at least are aligned before they give the keys.

The results being identical to the 991 GT3 are impressive given all the variables held as constant as possible. It was much faster than the GT4, which I've seen other magazines get identical results to....so one has to wonder what state the GTS is in when random journalists turn on the ignition.

Maybe the takeaway is to ask why BMW didn't deliver the car ready to drive balls out from the get go. Seems like cheap insurance...
Well it does have a ton of torque more than a GT3 and much more area under the curve so that helps. Also Sport auto tested it to show that it was actually making well over 500 hp too, 533 ps to be exact.
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      01-05-2017, 02:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise View Post
Well it does have a ton of torque more than a GT3 and much more area under the curve so that helps. Also Sport auto tested it to show that it was actually making well over 500 hp too, 533 ps to be exact.
yep... MOAR M POWAH.. but what's needed is less weight.

" The only criticism, despite the outstanding driving performance is not to discourage: the weight of 1601 kilos " and ;
"The hardcore M4 weighs 1601 kilograms with a full 60-liter tank and is only 14 kilograms lighter than the "normal" M4 (Supertest 7/2014). "



my handy dandy calculator says that's a total weight of 3529 lbs (3560 lbs for original M4) and a weight savings of just 30.8 lbs

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      01-05-2017, 03:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4 View Post

Its pretty clear many do not care or got the know how to set GTS up right prior to test, We cant blame them as most are to keen to get the foto session right or are more keen to simultanius drag start 20 car on same time to get a cool film.

But then again its plenty who dont know what they are doing.
Motortrend for instace drove GTS on high street setting in figure 8 lap(here is prof) and thats wrong. Also the got wrong tire pressure on racetrack. Rear should not be higher than front pressure in a front engin car. Sport auto know exakt right tire pressure and it is 2.3 bar front and 2.1 bar rear(hot)



BMW tire pressures posted on the door of the vehicle are what they are.

BMW specs for vehicles to UNDERSTEER at the limit.. .. a Lot. ! They do this with both tire pressures as well as with their selection of wheel and tire widths (by using a wider wheel and tire at the rear of the vehicle than the front).

For reference.. old school BMWs like the E30 M3 actually came with a square setup.... however BMW has been designing cars to understeer since they began using staggered wheel and tire setups on the E36 M3... Back in the mid 90s the rumor was that a vehicle that understeers is safer for the manufacturer with respect to potential litigation. )

So.. Most knowledgeable BMW enthusiasts (especially old school BMW fans) instantly REVERSE this process by using some or all of the following methods

- installing a square set up
- installing Camber plates for track duty
- adjusting tire pressures higher in the front and lower in the rear than the OEM settings... typically such that tire pressures in the front are a couple of PSI higher than the tire pressure in the rear.

This sort of custom setup is what the owner does.. but ... should we expect that a test magazine should test the car as it is... straight out of the box... or should they do a bunch of setup. ? The same issues occur when measuring things like audio speakers, A/V systems, televisions... etc. .. should the reviewer set the item up to look/function the best.. or just test the item out of the box... just as it is made.

One method tests the OEM vehicle.
Another method strives to extract the optimum from the vehicle for the test.
Clearly.. it sounds like Sport Auto does take time to set up the vehicle. Thanks for pointing this out and creating the thread.


That all said.. One of the key issues for the M4 GTS is that it is a vehicle that *requires* setup. Therefore... it simply will not fare well in tests where it is tested with the out of the box settings, or by reviewers that are not familiar enough with the vehicle to make competent adjustments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4 View Post
Thanks!

As I Said I was close to buy that Z06. But did not, as friends had it and it Always get in to limp mode after a few laps on track. This is a fact, and I even try later on to get answer from the importer of these cars if and when they Will solve that issue. It went almost a year and I got no feedback. Evenually these days It may be solved, by bigger cooling from factory. I really dont know as I lose interesst back the.

I even told My vette salesman I only use My cars on track, and also drive there and home. He then told me at the time I should not buy the Z06 as several of their sold cars at the time hade this limp mode heat issue.
@phatcat most corvettes are impressive out of the box.. Many have issues while running hard at the track. it became quickly apparent that if you track any C6 vette...that one needed to have a host of optional coolers (transmission and engine oil) added to the vehicle as " neccessory" item so that it won't fail. I've had an intermediate level student put his car into limp mode and eventually cooked the transmission in less than a day on a small twisty course at Barber Motorsports Park. Add all the coolers and it should be just fine.

While I am not as familiar with the C7.. I would say that your salesman definitely steered you in the correct direction, based on your usage.

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      01-06-2017, 02:12 AM   #11
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I think this is what bothers me the most about the GTS.

"A look at the test archive shows, however, that the previous models of the M4 GTS have saved even more weight against their respective base. The BMW M3 GTS of the E92 series weighed with 1546 kilos just under 100 kilos less than the E92 M3 Coupé with DKG (1640 kg). The sacred BMW E46 M3 CSL with a full tank weighs 1421 kilos, which corresponds to a weight saving of almost 150 kilos (M3 E46 with SMG: 1570 kg). The diet program was significantly more moderate compared to the predecessors of the M4 GTS. Here we would have wished for more."

The E46 CSL was IMO a much more special car than both the E92 GTS or current M4 GTS. I am still baffled how BMW could not find more weight savings and/or improve the natural balance of the GTS by a more rearward weight bias or better mass centralisation. Also how can they make adjustments to the suspension and spoilers so complicated and long to perform and have not installed a front lift to allow the car to clear speed bumps. The Alfa Giulia has an electrically adjustable front splitter, the Porsche have the front lift. Also why doesn't the GTS have an electronically adjustable suspension like the ATS-V for example? I am also disappointed by how much downforce (not a lot) the car has in its track settings. Last but not least, why make the water tank so small it needs to be refilled often during tack days? I'm pretty certain that adding a few liters to its capacity would not have such an impact in the car's weight... My point is, the GT3 and GT3 RS have many more bespoke parts than the GTS, therefore justifying their price premium. For the GTS, I'm not sure that BMW did their best to make a halo car....

I am afraid that M stands for "Marketing" instead of "Motorsport" for BMW nowadays.

Here's a reminder on how the E46 CSL beat the Porsche 996 GT3 in 2003: (SportAuto 8/2003):

0-40 km/h: 1,4 s
0-60 km/h: 2,2 s
0-80 km/h: 3,6 s
0-100 km/h: 4,8 s
0-120 km/h: 6,8 s
0-140 km/h: 8,6 s
0-160 km/h: 10,8 s
0-180 km/h: 14,2 s
0-200 km/h: 16,7 s
Top Speed: 280 km/h (250 km/h limited)

360 PS (265 kW) @ 7900 rpm
370 NM @ 4900 rpm
110,9 PS per liter displacement
1421 kg full tank
weight allocation front/back: 51,1/48,9 %
3,9 kg/PS

They compared it with a 996 GT3

Roundtime Nürburgring (Norschleife 20,6 km):
BMW M3 CSL: 7.50 min
Porsche GT3: 7.54 min

Roundtime Hockenheim (small course 2,6 km):
BMW M3 CSL: 1.13,5 min
Porsche GT3: 1.13,2

Acceleration/Braking Test (0-200-0 km/h)
BMW M3 CSL: 21,4 s
Porsche GT3: 19,9 s

Max. cross acceleration:
BMW M3 CSL: 1,4 g
Porsche GT3: 1,25 g

Slalom 36 meters (average speed):
BMW M3 CSL: 135 km/h
Porsche GT3: 130 km/h

Overall the CSL got 64 out of 70 points.
The GT3 got 59 out of 70 points.
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      01-06-2017, 02:46 AM   #12
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Thing is that bmw GTS tire pressure on door is more or less the correct on to use on track, but then that pressure should be hot. Thats the difference, on door post pressure for street thats cold tire. For track more or less same but hot.

Motortrend did not use this I am sorry to say, hence car did not drive at its best.

Sport auto also mention this car is very sensitiv to tire pressure. Its a heavy car and Will easy overheat tires if wrong pressure. A owner used to track driving would notice these things quickly.

Amg GT-R, (overal fastest sport auto lap at 7.11min) its now tested in sport auto at 1555kg(no cage, you can ad then 20+kg)full fuel same scale as GTS is 1600kg full fuel. Also the AMG car is very importent to drive correct tire pressure. But most importent what most car guys miss out (and even owners), is if cup tire get to a temp obove 90 degrees it lose much of its performance!!

One must stay at 70-90 degrees, and that not easy if wrong tire pressure from the start. Then you get past 90 and its not god preformace from tire! People can stopp driving if that get to high as you Will only kill tire and never set a fast lap time.

There are many bad examples even from owners (not only car magazin guys) who overload GTS tire With abuse understeer and wrong tire temp, hence they drive GP track With HIGH street chassie setting, it Will kill cars overall preformace and I for once cant understand why anybody would do that?!(high street setting is ONLY for Nurburgring and street!)

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      01-06-2017, 03:15 AM   #13
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God points on CSL. Agree when it came it was very fast and took many of guards. I did have the CSL for many years, fun part is when it came out it was same crap talk on that car as well (as now GTS).

In genral people could not see the price setting, most did think it was to much dollars over normal M3. It was to small difference vs normal m3 people in genral said. Its later on average people come to see CSL was big development difference vs M3. And agree, they sure did cut alot of pork vs M3. Still most did not understand that at the time.

Most people said it was only due to CSL cup tires it was faster than M3. But it was far more than that.

Belive you me, crap car test guys did fade out the brakes instant. Hey, I never did, and was not slow eighter.

The brakes was super on CSL, even small, it was a very small braking preformace Window to operate. Same in grip levels, very small Window grip, grip loads of it-then nothing. Hence it was much more challenge to go on the limit, only a few could. Also wet grip was not by far as god its With cup 2 on GTS.

Not saying there was not better brakes out on market that bmw could put on CSL, but they did not. Hence they did work super but was a challange to stay in the very small maximum operating Window. Many, many owners and car mag guys out braked them self and did blame the car/brakes😂.

It was only the drivers to blame for that, haha. CSL was a challenge and its was only later on that people in genral would Love it!

History Will repeat it selfe on GTS, belive me😉

Also it was only 25% of the produced CSL that was light. My cars, as the rest, had klima, stereo, park sensors etc, and was 1450kg full fuel.

Oh, just to tell it, new amg GT-R record lap fast amg at 7.11min. Its only 15kg lighter than amg GT-S. And its 23 sec faster on nur. than amg GT-S (Same driver sport auto)
Amg gt-R was 1555kg in sport auto test, mind you no cage. You can ad cage and then its ca. 20+ I guess, so add a tiny bit on the option list and amg gt-R is same as GTS weight.

Sure GTS is not as fast as amg gt-R. But overall bmw did as god of a jobb from the base M4 to get GTS to speed as amg. Only difference is the base to start from.(bmw had a harder task as M4 is based on vanila average base, MB is not)


Some One do the math on GTS VS M4 in ring times...and you find more or less same gain as amg.


Other than this, I also did not like the fact that GTS got porky. I even did tru to make them lose My park sensors and the rain sensors and the navi etc. But they was not in to that. Still I Love the car, and sure you feel the pork slightly when braking downhill on nur and also on GP tracks, but it magic how little you feel it. Like its porky, but go like stink and handle track work like a champ.

But what ever weight is told to be on M3/4 vs GTS, its Always a fact that the average M3/4 you accually see on street is plenty of Kg more porky than GTS. Due to no one accually spec. the M3/4 With no option and a stick shift and ceramics.

So in real world it more like 38-60+kg more pork on the average M3/4 vs GTS.

My GTS got all extras, like thats softwear mostly, head up. So car is porky at 1610kg full fuel. Sport auto cars is 1591-1600kg, hence not all extras.

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      01-06-2017, 09:13 AM   #14
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Why not post MB AMG GT-S from nr. 11 2016 sport auto supertest as compare to GTS. Amg gt-s tested here is 1645kg full fuel vs BMW GTS 1600kg. Price on this AMG is as tested 162.000euro vs GTS who is much much less expensive at 146.000euro.

Laptimes, nur bmw GTS 7.37, amg gt-s 7.36.
Hochenheim bmw GTS 1.09.06, amg gt-s 1.09.06.(same driver lap cars)


Amg is 510hp, but show 558hp on sport auto dyno. And NM is 650 but show 695nm.

(Bmw GTS is 500hp and show 533 on same dyno and got 600NM but show 640NM.)

Please consider GTS was driven on Nurburgring at 30 degrees and 34 tarmac degrees. (vs AMG GT-S 18 degrees, 23 degrees tarmac)

That shit make a Big difference on all cars, no car do Well on them high temps!

SUPERTEST MERCEDES-AMG GT S
//////////////////////////
SUPERTEST

WROOOAM!

A powerful V8 with emotional sound, a very direct steering and a balanced driving behavior in the border area - the MercedesAMG GT S has what many sports cars are missing today: Character!

MW has missed the M4 GTS a water injection, Porsche enters the GT3 RS with racing wheel-similar ventilators and McLaren relies on a movable tail wing, which can be set up as an air brake. Even in times of increasingly stringent licensing regulations or ever more stringent red pencils of the controllers sport car manufacturers still today still have amazingly brave development details. Courage is demonstrated by our present Supertest candidate already on the first Nordschleifemetern when turning into the Hatzenbachbogen. Respect, Mercedes-AMG GT S, that you have a direct steering, although you are a road car and not a pure-bred racebolide.

Actually, this steering is incredible when you look at where Mercedes in general and AMG in particular come from. From the once so spongy steering with almost dead response is now almost as steering by thought transfer. Okay, the latter was exaggerated, but around the middle position the hydraulic steering of the SLS successor model GT messerscharf, already almost pointed. The steering angle requirement is reduced to a sporty and fun dimension. The hand torque to be applied meets an almost perfect degree of tightness.

Sure, this uncompromising steering polarizes, but it has one thing that is missing many current sports cars: Character! The AMG GT will also recall its steering in decades. Regular Supertest readers will have long since registered that for me the steering development of another Swabian sports car manufacturer is currently going from the purely sporting point of view in the wrong direction. Whether the 911 Carrera, the 911 Turbo or the latest 718 series, the electromechanical Porsche steering systems are currently a compromise, which is matched to the best possible everyday use with quite a large steering angle requirement and a more comfortable response from the medium.

Muffensausen in Zuffenhausen?
But this should not be a scolding for Zuffenhausen. While all Porsche models are immediately moved with a sleep-changing safety in the border area, the GT S requires a lot more time to settle down quickly. Or something else: While the Porsche steering systems are already well tolerated by a rough rumgezerre at the steering wheel, the GT steering from AMG always requires a special feeling.

Coaches have definitely not lost anything in the GT S.

If, for example, the driver turns too hastily on the highway, the GT S "deflects" the GT S at the first moment and bends to a lot of cornering or corner outside. Also on the racetrack, the first corners are somewhat angled due to the jagged deflection behavior. But as soon as the precision of the GT steering has almost passed in flesh and blood, the AMG sports car can be placed with a great accuracy.

It has also something sympathetic, something primordial, something from another time, as sports cars could not be controlled by every "nose drill", but a certain basic understanding was assumed for the driving physics. The straight run at 300 km / h is so narrensicher in a current Elfer that one could loosely take a coffee mug out of the cupholder. And what happens during the same exercise in the AMG GT S? The nervous straight line (especially in connection with the optional sports tire) always requires control at both hands. But does a GT S really have to have the quiet straight run of an S-Class sedan? I mean: No! The intercurves in the Hatzenbach section, the narrow corners of Wehrseifen or the uphill ex-mill - especially in these Nordschleife sections, the sports car enjoys the direct GT steering. In the high-speed sections, for example, at the end of the boiler or in the Bellof-S when approaching the swallow tail, the rather pointed steering requires a sensitive steering work in order not to bring nervousness into the driving behavior unnecessarily.

But the AMG GT S not only scores on the race track with its directly tuned steering. Thanks to the well-balanced chassis tuning in combination with the optional Cup tires, it shines with high mechanical grip and good traction under load. The latter is particularly clear in narrow race track curves, as for example in the section "Starting cross-country" on the small course in Hockenheim.

After the precise deflection behavior, the driver can accelerate out of the curve quickly and early. While the GT is equipped with a mechanical rear axle differential, the GT S uses an electronically controlled rear axle differential as standard.
Compared to the mechanical variant, the electronic system is to work with a variable barrier effect in the pulling and pushing operation even more sensitively. In addition, the GT S carries the so-called AMG-Ride-Control sports suspension with electronically controlled damping, which costs extra for the "small" GT. With the "Comfort", "Sport" and "Sport +" modes, three different damper characteristics can be selected at the push of a button. The name of the comfort mode is in the everyday life not quite as program as in the Porsche 911, but also the GT S is from exaggerated Schlaglochhärte far away. Even if his sporty ambition is always noticed at any time, long journeys are not a pain because of the good suspension comfort.

For relatively level racing circuits like the "Kleine Kurs" from Hockenheim, we recommend the tightest of all damper levels ("Sport +"). For the Nordschleife, the shock absorbers can be ordered either in "Sport" or "Sport +". However, all AMG test drivers also swear in the Green Hell on the most stringent damper stage. The Supertest time lap was also completed. With the tightest damping setting, the GT S jumps somewhat more strongly on some north-loop peaks, but is best supported overall in the curves with the lowest lateral inclination. And when the GT S simply takes off in the sport - + - damper mode, the GT S moves at any time in a balanced and well controllable way through the air.

Compared to the basic GT, the S-model also carries the AMG Dynamic Plus package exclusively available for the GT S. This package includes, in addition to dynamic engine and gearboxes, tighter spring and damper characteristics as well as increased negative camber on the front axle and a specific tuning of the steering.

Despite biturbo: emotional V8
Do not forget before the race track visit: Always adjust the driving program knob on the center console in "Race" mode. "I" for "Individual", "C" for "Controlled Efficiency", "Sport", "Sport +" and the same Race mode. In the "Sport +" and "Race" modes, the hand torque of the steering is even tighter than in the other driving programs. In the "Race" program, not only the response of the V8-Biturbos is more direct than in all other modes, the shifting times and the shifting strategy are now as sporty as possible. The seven-speed dual-clutch transmission acknowledges downshifting with emotional intermittent gait.

Speaking of emotions: Even without the legendary 6.2-liter sucker, the SLS successor would secure the full score in the emotional score if it were in the Supertest. The M178 makes its thing damn good. Behind the abbreviation hides the new four-liter V8 with dry-sump lubrication, whose turbochargers sit between the cylinder banks. The Langhuber with a standard sports exhaust system with flap control not only leaves the teat quickly forgotten. The speedy response, the almost sucker-like turning pleasure and the even torque - over the nominally 510 HP strong V8 can not complain also suction engine fan. However, there is a taste of the taste: With 558 PS measured on the test stand the trolley scatters significantly upwards.

There is, however, praise for the tuning of the double clutch transmission. The times when the AMG gearbox has only assumed the command of the shift paddles only after a tough break when the speed limit is reached, are fortunately long gone. In race mode, the shifting strategy facilitates the shifting process with a slight torque increase. The driver can also choose whether he can select the gears in the race mode automatically or switch manually by means of a rocker. In the manual shift mode, the gearbox - independent of the accelerator pedal position - keeps the speed steps at 7200 rpm and does not switch up autonomously. White-red-yellow switching lamps and a gear display provide for a racing car atmosphere. Similar to the current generation of PDKs from Porsche, it is advisable to switch the AMG double clutch transmission in the limit range as well. In addition to precise high-altitude operations, the gearbox also automatically switches down perfectly. It is also an ambitious driver does not have to be better.

Successful ABS vote
The AMG engineers invested a great deal of work not only in the transmission application, but also in the ABS tuning. On the Nordschleife, the successful ABS control frequency and the very good adaptation to the grip level of the Cup tires are particularly evident when braking after dipping and on mountain passes.

As it should not be, the Lamborghini Huracán showed on the north loop, whose ABS had only been inadequately adapted to his Trofeo tires. Result:

When braking in the ABS range, the brake made

So the braking effect was only delayed. And it even came to a light brake plate on the running surface of the front wheels by short-standing wheels. Such a thing does not promote the trust!

Quite different in the AMG GT S. At 268 km / h it goes under full load over the crest before the Schwedenkreuz. Then briefly brak, turn in and continue towards Arembergkurve. The braking system and the ABS tuning remain highly confident when braking the downhill Aremberg braking zone with a slippery surface, and they always give great confidence at the border area. Likewise, the GT S mastered the braking phase at the Pflanzgartenkuppe. At the latest, the wheat is separated from the chaff and the vehicle shows a good ABS vote and who still needs to catch up. The ABS control of the GT S remains faultless.

In order for the control system to work perfectly even in the border area, the AMG test drivers intentionally explore the border area during the development work on the north loop or even go a little way above it. Wherever the wheel slips into the hatch, it is then driven for development purposes in the way that would normally not be done. Example: At the Swedish cross, the test drivers responsible for the ABS control development start braking when the wheels are still in the air. Normally, the system then recognizes that there is no friction value and would release the brake. The art is, however, to re-regulate the system as soon as the coefficient of friction is restored, so a wheel comes back to the ground.

In the development, the car is intentionally brought into normally untypical driving states in order to advance the fine tuning of the ABS. The whole thing is now however not an invitation to any Schlaumeier, the driving physics completely overruling. At some point, even the best ABS comes to its limits. In terms of control technology, AMG not only succeeded in the ABS vote. The GT S has a three-stage ESP with the functions "ESP on", "ESP Sport Handling Mode" and "ESP off". While in the narrow corners of the small circuit of Hockenheim the ESP should be completely deactivated to determine the fastest lap time, the difference between "ESP off" and "ESP Sport Handling Mode" on the north loop is negligible.

The sporting mode bears his name right here. Even if the ESP is not completely deactivated in the sports mode, it remains in the background in the border area. Only in absolute exceptional cases is a very easy regulation noticeable. With a fresh tire set and a clean line selection no regulation is noticeable. One circumnavigates the Nordschleife with ESP sports mode almost as fast as with completely deactivated driving aids.

AMG: consistent development work
In the goal it is then thumbs up. The 911-opponent from Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen, perfected over decades, follows the AMG GT S on the Nordschleife with a lap time of 7.36 minutes close to the wind shadow. The internal development goal has also been achieved: the AMG GT S is nearly as fast on the ring as the 631 hp strong overflows of its predecessor series called SLS AMG Black Series. Respect, so does consistent development work! ◾

Text Christian Gebhardt · Photos Achim Hartmann, Hans-Dieter Seufert


MY OPINION

Although it is not the best we have ever measured in the Supertest, the AMG GT S shows its actual values ​​apart from numbers. Compared to many current sports cars, the GT is not only a fast, but also a highly emotional sports car. Tags: optics and sound. Since in the Supertest however only the performance counts, it must also be clearly stated that "Muffensausen in Zuffenhausen" does not yet arise. The Porsche 911 Carrera S reaches similar lap times with significantly less engine power and road tires. The new AMG spearhead with the AMG GT R is already in the starting holes. Then the duel "Zuffenhausen vs.. Affalterbach "into a new round.

//////////


TECHNOLOGY-SPOTLIGHT: Performance measurement

The AMG test vehicle shows noticeable values ​​in the performance measurement on the roller test stand used by the vehicle experts of "Müller". Instead of the rated power of 510 hp, an engine power of 558 hp was measured on the test bench. After we had faced AMG with the measurement, the sports car manufacturer from Affalterbach questioned the measured traction power (84.8 kW). The Maha-LPS-3000 roller tester used is a so-called double roller tester. AMG found a lower traction performance on a vertex roller test stand. "It is not possible to compare the ratio of drag and wheel power between an apex roll test stand and a double roll test stand. Due to the increased weight I need for a slip-free transmission of the wheel power in a double-roller test stand, the drag performance is enormously increased. Also the two adjacent points of the rollers on the wheel increase this. However, since we measure the trailing power for each measurement, we return to the same result. In comparison to other comparable vehicles, we have not been able to detect an increased drag performance. "A comparison of the OBD reference data also showed no discernible difference," explains test bench operator Moritz Müller. Even in the case of "Miiller tests" measured customer vehicles of the AMG GT confirmed the performance spread upward. In a conversation, AMG confirmed that most of the GT's engines are spreading upwards in the internally ascertained quality assurance, albeit not quite as high as in the case of the test car. AMG also stated that the traction power on the transmission tester of its supplier Getrag was lower. "The transmission losses are marginal in the trailing power given during the measurement. The biggest loss occurs when it is transferred to the test bench ", comments expert Müller.


//////////

NÜRBURGRING NORDSCHLEIFE

Measurement conditions: air temperature 18 ° Celsius asphalt temperature 23 ° Celsius air pressure atmosphere 1026 mbar air pressure tire (front / rear) 2.1 / 2.2 bar (warm)

SECTOR TIMES

SECTOR 1 1.26.2 min
Start line T13 to the bridge exit Aremberg, 3850 m

SECTOR 2 1.44.2 min
Bridge exit Aremberg to Item 122 Exit Ex-Mühle, 4235 m

SECTOR 3 1.45.4 min
Item 122 Exit ex-mill until sign Hedwigshöhe exit Hohe Acht, 4825 m

SECTOR 4 1.56.5 min
Shield Hedwigshöhe exit High Eight to metal bridge output gallows head, 4846 m

SECTOR 5 0.43.3 min
Metal bridge output gallows head to initial target curve old north loop, 2844 m


15 of a maximum of 20 points
The adjustment of the hydraulic steering requires a short settling phase on the north loop. Afterwards, the GT S can be placed perfectly in any driving condition, thanks to its direct, almost already pointed steering. Overall the AMG scores with great mechanical grip level and good traction under load. The driving behavior can be described as neutral and good-natured. Important for confidence in the border area: The ABS tuning for the optional sports tire of the type Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 fits at any time to the requirements profile on the Nordschleife.

BEST LIST OF NORDSHIPS

The competitors in comparison

1. 7.13 Porsche 918 Spyder

5. 7.28 Lamborghini Huracán LP 610-4

5. 7.28 Porsche 911 GT3 RS

9. 7.32 Audi R8 V10 Plus

16. 7.34 Porsche 911 Carrera S

21. 7.35 McLaren 650S

21 7.35 Mercedes SLS AMG Bl. Series

23. 7.36 min Mercedes-AMG GT S (18 degrees when GT-S Amg test, 23 tarmac)

23. 7.36 Nissan GT-R

25. 7.37 BMW M4 GTS (30 degrees and 34 on tarmac when GTS test)

27. 7.38 Corvette ZR1 (2009)

27. 7.38 Ferrari 458 Italia

27. 7.38 Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 SL

27. 7.38 Lexus LFA

34. 7.40 Mercedes SLS AMG

////////



BESTENLISTE NORDSCHLEIFE

Die Konkurrenten im Vergleich

1. 7.13 Porsche 918 Spyder

5. 7.28 Lamborghini Huracán LP 610-4

5. 7.28 Porsche 911 GT3 RS

9. 7.32 Audi R8 V10 Plus

16. 7.34 Porsche 911 Carrera S

21. 7.35 McLaren 650S

21 7.35 Mercedes SLS AMG Bl. Series

23. 7.36 min Mercedes-AMG GT S

23. 7.36 Nissan GT-R

25. 7.37 BMW M4 GTS

27. 7.38 Corvette ZR1 (2009)

27. 7.38 Ferrari 458 Italia

27. 7.38 Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 SL

27. 7.38 Lexus LFA

34. 7.40 Mercedes SLS AMG

//////////////

BEST LIST Hockenheim


The competitors in comparison

1.1.06.3 Porsche 918 Spyder

3. 1.07.5 Lamborghini Huracán LP 610-4

5. 1.08.5 Porsche 911 GT3 RS

6. 1.08.6 Mercedes SLS AMG Bl. Series

14. 1.09.4 Audi R8 V10 Plus

18. 1.09.6 BMW M4 GTS

18. 1.09.6 Mercedes-AMG GT S

18. 1.09.6 Porsche 911 Carrera S

24. 1.10.0 Nissan GT-R

41. 1.10.8 Mercedes SLS AMG

HOCKENHEIMRING SMALL COURSE

Measuring conditions: air temperature 21 ° Celsius asphalt temperature 25 ° Celsius air pressure atmosphere 1024 mbar air pressure tire (front / rear) 2.0 / 2.1 bar (warm)

14 of a maximum of 20 points
On the small course of Hockenheim, the AMG GT S scores with its direct steering response, the largely neutral balance and good traction under load. Above all in the einge corners he inspires with his direct steering. Overall, he can hide his rather heavy weight of 1645 kilos. What could the AMG GT S do if it were on the weight level of the Porsche 911 Carrera S (Supertest 6/2016, weight fully loaded: 1508 kg)? Only for comparison: the Carrera S with 420 hp and without Cup tires the identical roundness as the AMG GT S, which with clearly higher engine performance and optional Cup tires of the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 type. Despite its weight, the AMG GT S also convinces on the brake with good dosage. In addition to high deceleration performance, the sports car is particularly pleased with the ABS control, which is well adapted to the sports tires. Thus, with the Frontermotor-Zweisitzer can be motivated and braked late into the curves.

TOTAL ASSESSMENT

Of 100 achievable points

1. 100 Porsche 918 Spyder

2.94 Lamborghini Huracán LP 610-4

4. 92 Porsche 911 GT3 RS

11. 84 Audi R8 V10 Plus

12. 83 Porsche 911 Carrera S

19. 78 BMW M4 GTS

25. 76 PKT Mercedes-AMG GT S

25. 76 Nissan GT-R

28. 74 Mercedes SLS AMG Bl. Series

38. 69 Ferrari 458 Italia

Last edited by Captain Unknown GT4; 01-06-2017 at 10:10 AM..
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      01-06-2017, 09:45 AM   #15
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I am just not happy with this car's performance overall, not to mention this was THE first CSL/GTS variant selling in North America. What a debut BMW... *sigh*
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      01-06-2017, 10:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
I think this is what bothers me the most about the GTS.

...

I am afraid that M stands for "Marketing" instead of "Motorsport" for BMW nowadays.
Some background data about M3(4) "track" models as compared to the 911 GT3 on SA/AMS supertest 'ring times:
  • 2003 996 GT3 7:54 €102,000
  • 2003 E46 CSL 7:50 €85,000
  • 2006 997 GT3 7:47 €108,000
  • 2010 997.2 GT3 7:40 €122,000
  • 2011 E92 GTS 7:48 €137,000
  • 2013 991 GT3 7:32 €137,000
  • 2016 F82 GTS 7:37 €143,000

A few more data points comparing the "track" M3/4 models to their base counterparts in term of base price, power and 'ring time difference (all according to AMS/SA supertests):
  • E46 CSL +€26000 +17hp(+4.9%) -32seconds
  • E92 GTS +€68500 +30hp(+7.1%) -17seconds
  • F82 GTS +€67000 +69hp(+16%) -15seconds
That CSL was truly impressive, especially considering its price point and modest power increase.
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Last edited by CanAutM3; 01-06-2017 at 10:55 AM..
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      01-06-2017, 10:22 AM   #17
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Plese let me know If sombody want to see an other cars test result on sport auto supertest.

What ever the brand I could easy put it up.
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      01-06-2017, 10:26 AM   #18
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What I personaly did not like that much was that M3 GTS was hardly faster than old E46 CSL @ nur.

Hence, at the time I own CSL and due to that was not keen to get the M3 GTS.

It kind of did miss my radar due to that...

Last edited by Captain Unknown GT4; 01-06-2017 at 10:38 AM..
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      01-06-2017, 10:33 AM   #19
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Yes CSL was special, this is one of many reason...



Me in my old CSL, kind of miss that car at times.

Oh, and here is Sport auto christians take on GTS, if it somthing special or not..

/////

MY OPINION

Did you notice something? I have not mentioned the BMW M3 CSL so far. A good sign. Until now, it has always been complained that the CSL does not have a legitimate successor. His direct successor M3 GTS (E92) could never really convince. This time is now definitely over. The CSL remains sure of its hero status forever with its emotional slave engine, but the M4 GTS leaves the CSL clear with its outstanding performance values ​​from a cross-dynamical point of view. In addition, the M4 GTS also manages to cover its rather high weight of almost 1600 kilos very well. On the small course of Hockenheim he is on the same level as the 137 kilos lighter Porsche 911 GT3. Respect! The anticipation for the Supertest was never as great.

Link to this test is here...

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1337902

/////////

I for once agree, I also got plenty of experience frist hand on CSL/GTS as owner of the 2 cars.

GTS is special as well, it remind me of My old CSL in many ways, but GTS is much faster everywhere. Also GTS give more real racecar feel due to aero effekt front/rear and adjustable 3ways chassie and in low down track setting GTS in that drop get more aggressive camber/toe vs in high street setting. A low down track set GTS give more racecar feel that stock CSL. Then again sound of CSL is top notch!

What also is simular is the negative bash on CSL, when it came out I had it, and people did crap just as much on it as they now do on GTS. This is very funny, people Always Said it was to much euro over normal e46 M3 and it was not that special. Bl.a. Bl.a. people could just put cup tires on e46 M3 and it would be as great. People could back then also build their own type CSL out of the M3, bl.a. Bl.a. in their own garage and save the dollars as CSL original One was to much dollar.

Haha, I been on bmw cars so long and nothing change

Not many did think of CSL as special back when new, only us owners. Same in GTS

Last edited by Captain Unknown GT4; 01-06-2017 at 11:24 AM..
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      01-06-2017, 10:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4 View Post
Yes CSL was special, this is one of many reason...



Me in my old CSL, kind of miss that car at times.
A truly fantastic car all around and much rarer one in my opinion. What were the actual production numbers and how many clean surviving examples ?

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/05/03/bm...-lot-of-dough/
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClRTsfNzuz_EjUBu59UCykA
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      01-06-2017, 11:24 AM   #21
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Pricing:

One of my local dealerships has an M4 GTS for sale with $100k added markup, and carbon fiber rims set on it for an additional $20k for a whopping grand total sticker price of about $255k !!
That's a bit excessive no ? I mean you're still going to get beaten by a lot cars for that money. Crazy
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CS EDC,Analog Dip ,GTS parts.
Euro Vin e30 M3, FIA cage / 14.7 p / w ratio.
Euro E30 touring G30 MSport i3s LBB X5M
3.2carrera

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClRTsfNzuz_EjUBu59UCykA
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      01-06-2017, 11:41 AM   #22
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Thanks for post! Do we need to check them Times, just kidding, you seems to get your info right:-)

There was no need to get power up on CSL as weight came down so much vs M3.

Still I am a Porsche owner as Well, no where could you accually buy that 991 GT3 at 137.000euro. as you show it. No cars accually sell like that price. Most got clubsport like GTS, and its free on GTS but extra euro on GT3.
Still this GT3 got ceramics for 9200euro and sport crono 1550euro(thats it)

Here is the more real 991 GT3 new price, aswell this accual car they test vs GTS did not even have clubsport pack(cage etc)
Still it got light bucket seats.







Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Some background data about M3(4) "track" models as compared to the 911 GT3 on SA/AMS supertest 'ring times:
  • 2003 996 GT3 7:54 €102,000
  • 2003 E46 CSL 7:50 €85,000
  • 2006 997 GT3 7:47 €108,000
  • 2010 997.2 GT3 7:40 €122,000
  • 2011 E92 GTS 7:48 €137,000
  • 2013 991 GT3 7:32 €137,000
  • 2016 F82 GTS 7:37 €143,000

A few more data points comparing the "track" M3/4 models to their base counterparts in term of base price, power and 'ring time difference (all according to AMS/SA supertests):
  • E46 CSL +€26000 +17hp(+4.9%) -32seconds
  • E92 GTS +€68500 +30hp(+7.1%) -17seconds
  • F82 GTS +€67000 +69hp(+16%) -15seconds
That CSL was truly impressive, especially considering its price point and modest power increase.

Last edited by Captain Unknown GT4; 01-06-2017 at 11:49 AM..
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