BMW M3 and M4 Lease Rates (36 months)

[MKParris]

Originally Posted by tonydt1g3r

thanks for all the help guys I am going to call in and see what the dealer says.


On another note. I wonder why I got quoted a money factor of .00169 for US delivery from a multitude of different dealers

the dealers don't have to use the BMW rates, they can make more money this way.

I asked my local dealer for the BMW FS lease special and they told me they cant do it and wouldnt make any money - I told them to pound sand and ordered from somewhere else.

[jasnh]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBiz

My CA just emailed me back, seems they were definitely trying to pull a fast one... See his response below:

"You are correct about the bump, which explains why we'd had the 66% before. I was trying to find the difference, which is why I'd assumed that was the issue."

Thanks again man...

Glad to help. There have been a number of people on here that helped me out with my 335 lease back in 2013, and now with my M3 order.

Just paying it forward

[M4LF]

Originally Posted by bigsid05

The ED base MF is .00159. Make sure you see ALL the numbers before you sign or that you can validate the monthly payment. Dealers WILL try to screw you for a few hundred dollars.

Originally Posted by MonkeyBiz

My CA just emailed me back, seems they were definitely trying to pull a fast one... See his response below:

"You are correct about the bump, which explains why we'd had the 66% before. I was trying to find the difference, which is why I'd assumed that was the issue."

Thanks again man...

My CA just got back with me. First they were using ED MF .00169 yesterday on my 15k/36m lease. Today I told them to check that MF and to do mine as 12k/36m. They recalculated the number this time using ED MF .0017. I said no the number for April is 0.0016. Finally he came back saying you're right it's 0.0016. He told me he locked in my rate too. Hopefully there are no more 'errors' when I come sign the lease papers next month before my ED pickup.

Now the whole time they don't actually show me that they were using 0.00169 or 0.0017. Their printouts only show the monthly rent charge and the total monthly payment. I figured out the MF by plugging in different MF into a lease calculator and figured out the MF they using. I think most buyers would not have noticed this.

I don't think it's my CA since his manager is the one who does the calculations for him. Anyways thanks guys I love this freaking forum!!

[bigsid05]

Originally Posted by mso4

My CA just got back with me. First they were using ED MF .00169 yesterday on my 15k/36m lease. Today I told them to check that MF and to do mine as 12k/36m. They recalculated the number this time using ED MF .0017. I said no the number for April is 0.0016. Finally he came back saying you're right it's 0.0016. He told me he locked in my rate too. Hopefully there are no more 'errors' when I come sign the lease papers next month before my ED pickup.

Now the whole time they don't actually show me that they were using 0.00169 or 0.0017. Their printouts only show the monthly rent charge and the total monthly payment. I figured out the MF by plugging in different MF into a lease calculator and figured out the MF they using. I think most buyers would not have noticed this.

I don't think it's my CA since his manager is the one who does the calculations for him. Anyways thanks guys I love this freaking forum!!

Call your CA out, that's BS. Mine played the same games with me and blamed it on the finance manager when the MF and Acq fee was inflated. These guys have made plenty of deals so they know all the levers they can pull and all the ways they can sneak a few hundred extra out of your pockets.

[f82fanatic]

Originally Posted by bigsid05

Call your CA out, that's BS. Mine played the same games with me and blamed it on the finance manager when the MF and Acq fee was inflated. These guys have made plenty of deals so they know all the levers they can pull and all the ways they can sneak a few hundred extra out of your pockets.

I would give the CA the benefit of the doubt. From my conversations with a couple of them, some really have no clue on the details of how the lease works. It is absolutely possible that the finance manager is lying to the CA in my opinion. Think about it this way: if you separate the process into steps, you are telling your CA that he'll get all the commission, and the Finance department will get none. Why wouldn't the finance person (or department) try to pull a fast one on the sales person (or department)?

Just my 2 cents...

[MRCUR]

Originally Posted by f82fanatic

It is absolutely possible that the finance manager is lying to the CA in my opinion.

I'll second this. I've seen a few dealers where the managers clearly do not disclose all the info (especially with leases) to the CA's. This way the CA's can play dumb when it comes to lease details.

Many times you'll really piss off the managers if you know what the MF buy rate is or the actual acquisition cost is and they don't disclose that info to the CA's.

[bigsid05]

Originally Posted by f82fanatic

I would give the CA the benefit of the doubt. From my conversations with a couple of them, some really have no clue on the details of how the lease works. It is absolutely possible that the finance manager is lying to the CA in my opinion. Think about it this way: if you separate the process into steps, you are telling your CA that he'll get all the commission, and the Finance department will get none. Why wouldn't the finance person (or department) try to pull a fast one on the sales person (or department)?

Just my 2 cents...

I disagree, my CA also played dumb at first when I negotiated an ED invoice + margin deal, even though he had been recommended to me by another forum member that started discussions at ED invoice. These guys are salesmen and have done a lot of deals, they're not clueless about the details.

To be fair, that's not to say it's not possible, I just find it highly unlikely.

[saxon]

Originally Posted by f82fanatic

I would give the CA the benefit of the doubt. From my conversations with a couple of them, some really have no clue on the details of how the lease works. It is absolutely possible that the finance manager is lying to the CA in my opinion. Think about it this way: if you separate the process into steps, you are telling your CA that he'll get all the commission, and the Finance department will get none. Why wouldn't the finance person (or department) try to pull a fast one on the sales person (or department)?

Just my 2 cents...

finance manager doesnt send the deals out with the CA, its the new car manager that does this....

[M4LF]

Originally Posted by saxon

finance manager doesnt send the deals out with the CA, its the new car manager that does this....

My CA did say he has to get the numbers from his manager every time. I don't think he knew. He just provided me with numbers that was Given to him. Having said that, it's not the dealer's job to make sure you get the best deal. That's your job. I've purchased more than a dozen cars and half the time someone tried something. I actually enjoy the entire process. After all, when it's all done I'll be driving a new M4.

[f82fanatic]

Originally Posted by bigsid05

I disagree, my CA also played dumb at first when I negotiated an ED invoice + margin deal, even though he had been recommended to me by another forum member that started discussions at ED invoice. These guys are salesmen and have done a lot of deals, they're not clueless about the details.

To be fair, that's not to say it's not possible, I just find it highly unlikely.

Yeah, that is a different discussion though. What I am saying is not that CAs do not play dumb. On the contrary, I would say most, if not all, of them play dumb.

However, the realm of expertise of most of them is car price, not car financing. Therefore, they are more ineffective in profiting from finance gauging than from car price markups. So, what I am saying is that I would trust them more when they say they are unaware of the MF markup. Their finance department might just be giving them a final monthly payment for the car.

[f82fanatic]

Originally Posted by saxon

finance manager doesnt send the deals out with the CA, its the new car manager that does this....

Not sure if I get your comment here. From what I understand, the manager adjusts the prices negotiated by CA and Finance department to get a particular profit margin in each car. This actually reinforces the notion that CAs might have no clue of what is going on in the finance department. The manager could be telling them to hit a particular margin on the invoice and the finance dept/manager adjusts the rest of the numbers.

It is reasonable to expect a manager to mess around with the financing figures because most people have no clue of what is going on in terms of pricing of the lease. Let's face it, most people that buy BMWs are not part of this forum...

[Acturater]

Originally Posted by GOLFFRR

60 days east coast 90 days west coast is the lock in time frame.
the time frame starts from the last day of the month you locked in not the day you locked in.

Hi GOLFFRR. I'm considering doing ED next year. My current lease ends 9/2016 next year so I'd probably take ED delivery around 7/2016 for a US delivery around 9/2016.

In the case of Eurodelivery, what is the timing of the locked in lease rates? Would it be the day you sign your papers to put in the order for ED? Ideally I'd like to put in the order in the March/April timeframe to take advantage of the low lease rates and lock them in if possible.

[kasher_khan]

Originally Posted by Acturater

In the case of Eurodelivery, what is the timing of the locked in lease rates? Would it be the day you sign your papers to put in the order for ED? Ideally I'd like to put in the order in the March/April timeframe to take advantage of the low lease rates and lock them in if possible.

+1

My S4 lease ends in August 2016. I too am wondering when the earliest is that one can lock in the rates (presuming that MY2016 starts in July). When do dealers get allocations for 2016. Do the rates lock in? when you put in the deposit to secure a spot OR when you actually sign the papers (the later could take a while for 2016 no?)

Ideally I'd like to know the changes (however insignificant for 2016) before I put any money down...but seems like that would be too late, and all allocations for the next few months my already be taken (oh what to do..)

[MatthewDavid]

I'll tell you what guys, I've talked to so many dealers at this point that it's clear a lot of CAs simply don't know better. One CA literally got audibly upset that I told him invoice wasn't what he said. I was actually taken aback at how sharply this Magoo's attitude changed, especially since he knows I'm well-aware of how it works now and spend a lot of time on this forum. Dealers need to make money to stay in business, but let's all be honest with each other and build a trusting relationship!

In a separate incident, I had an opportunity to do a deal at the end of March, but didn't then the residual went down 1% the next day and that'll cost me $1k over 36-mos., which sucks! (At the time I didn't know locking in rates with one dealer meant nothing to other dealers).

Regardless, one tool we should all have is the Leasematic created by a forum member (not me, no relationship)! It's helped me call out a few dealers on their numbers and that's absolutely awesome coming from someone that's overpaid on leases in the past!

[MatthewDavid]

GOLFFRR mentioned in another thread that it's 90 days (west coast; 60 days east coast) from the end of the month in which you lock-in the rates. Locking in your rates means applying for credit on the dealers site or through their system.

Keep in mind, locking in rates with one dealer means nothing to another dealer. These rates are dealer-specific!

Originally Posted by kasher_khan

+1

My S4 lease ends in August 2016. I too am wondering when the earliest is that one can lock in the rates (presuming that MY2016 starts in July). When do dealers get allocations for 2016. Do the rates lock in? when you put in the deposit to secure a spot OR when you actually sign the papers (the later could take a while for 2016 no?)

Ideally I'd like to know the changes (however insignificant for 2016) before I put any money down...but seems like that would be too late, and all allocations for the next few months my already be taken (oh what to do..)

Originally Posted by Acturater

Hi GOLFFRR. I'm considering doing ED next year. My current lease ends 9/2016 next year so I'd probably take ED delivery around 7/2016 for a US delivery around 9/2016.

In the case of Eurodelivery, what is the timing of the locked in lease rates? Would it be the day you sign your papers to put in the order for ED? Ideally I'd like to put in the order in the March/April timeframe to take advantage of the low lease rates and lock them in if possible.

[OneRib]

Acturater and kasher_khan

The lock occurs when you apply for finance approval through BMWFS. This can be done online through BMWUSA website links, or at the dealer, or through the dealer website (if active). The lock in is good until 60 days past the current period ends.

Example
Lock in April 2015 rates anytime before 5/1 and you get that rate until 6/29 because you get 60 days from 4/30 no matter when you lock in April. It's 90 days for the west coast. The car must be in by then to take delivery.
ED cars must be signed for before you leave so its even simpler. You already will know your ED date and you can lock in at the earliest month that lets you keep that locked rate.

So March locks are good until the end of May. If you're ED date is before then or in early June, you would sign the papers and be done. Now if your delivery date was July, that's different. You could still sign in May to keep March's rate but you would be paying on a car you don't have and your lease would end earlier (starts when you sign).

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by mso4

I just put in my ED order yesterday. Dealer was out of town so we did everything via email. I was not given anything about lease rates or money factors. How do you lock down a rate? Do you sign something?

I looked at the numbers he gave me from the day before and can see that the dealer is using a money factor of .00169 instead of the .0016. I just emailed my CA hopefully they will have it corrected. Damn you got to constantly be on your feet!

They should adjust it and you can always cancel the order if they don't. The whole point of buying out of state is you're looking for a good deal. Elevated MF's are not going to cut it.

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by mc3456

I doubt things will improve because:

A) Winter is over, so these cars are coming into their season. When people test drive the car with the summer tires, traction will seem very strong, whereas the reality is that they are terrible in colder weather.

B) AMG C63 residuals are terrible right now. Despite being a new, hot car, when people on the bubble consider how much more it will cost them to lease one, the majority will be back in the M3 camp, hence no pressure on BMW to raise the residuals. They could even come down and still be way more competitive from a monthly payment perspective.

You are probably correct. That's why I will lock this month and cross my fingers. At least I know it won't get any worse for me.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by kasher_khan

+1

My S4 lease ends in August 2016. I too am wondering when the earliest is that one can lock in the rates (presuming that MY2016 starts in July). When do dealers get allocations for 2016. Do the rates lock in? when you put in the deposit to secure a spot OR when you actually sign the papers (the later could take a while for 2016 no?)

Ideally I'd like to know the changes (however insignificant for 2016) before I put any money down...but seems like that would be too late, and all allocations for the next few months my already be taken (oh what to do..)

if you are talking about leasing a 2016, you can't lock in the 2015 rates for that, different model year... most likely the 2016 rates will come out at around 60% vs the current 65% M3 rate. can't lock a 2015 model rate and say you want it for the 2016 model.

[Just Drive]

What were the MF and residuals when the 2015 M3 first came out?

[dowdlemj]

Originally Posted by Mako

if you are talking about leasing a 2016, you can't lock in the 2015 rates for that, different model year... most likely the 2016 rates will come out at around 60% vs the current 65% M3 rate. can't lock a 2015 model rate and say you want it for the 2016 model.

Why would the new model year have a lower residual value than the outgoing? Wouldn't it be the reverse, considering the sale price on a 2016 should be higher in 3 years than a 2015?

[M4LF]

Originally Posted by OneRib

They should adjust it and you can always cancel the order if they don't. The whole point of buying out of state is your looking for a good deal. Elevated MF's are not going to cut it.

They adjusted the rate over the weekend, to ED MF .0016. This dealer is just an hour away. Now I'm waiting for BMW to confirm my ED date, I'm on status 047 which mean order has been entered. Hopefully I'll get some sort of confirmation next week from BMW.